Matt Gaetz Is Said to Be Investigated Over Possible Sexual Relationship With a Girl,

[gondrin]

In Canada, the rule is that your position as a Member of Parliament is revoked the moment you're charged with any crime. A by-election is called in your riding to replace you. Even if the charges are dropped or you're exonerated at trial, you don't get your seat back; you can run again next election cycle.

It's presented exactly zero problems.



Again, "innocent until guilty" only applies to the court process, meaning you get your trial before you're sentenced.

It doesn't apply to administrative actions like being fired on suspicion of criminality. Not even at the government level.

As far as Congressmen go, they cannot be "fired". They have to be voted by a supermajority (2/3) of the chamber. As much as it should be possible to put them on leave or outright fire them for criminal acts, it isn't, and probably never be, the case. Too much corruption to ever happen. There would need to be a Constitutional Convention and a new amendment needs to be added in for that. That and a lot of other things.

[DarkTZeratul]

There would need to be a Constitutional Convention and a new amendment needs to be added in for that. That and a lot of other things.

Amendment, yes. Constitutional Convention, no. It wouldn't require overhauling the entire thing, just making one change. The problem being, of course, that an Amendment requires a 2/3 vote in both the Senate and the House and ratification by 3/4 of the states.

[Edge-]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sollenber...49978008182784

Lots of people cooperating at this point…

Ah, he's connected to Greenberg as well, that makes sense. So Greenberg snitches on Ellicott and Gaetz, and Ellicott snitches on Gaetz. Wonder who Gaetz thinks he can snitch on.

[Zaydin]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sollenber...49978008182784

Lots of people cooperating at this point…

They are probably well aware that prosecutors will happily give small fry like them a slap on the wrist if they pony up evidence to catch a sleazeball like Gaetz instead.

What looks better on the resume? Nailing some nobody or indicting and possibly convicting a Member of Congress for sex trafficking, obstruction or whatever they end up charging him with?

[Breccia]

Lots of people cooperating at this point…

I mean, I would imagine the penalty for being convicted of being a pedophile would be pretty massive -- over and above the social stigma when people find out you're a pedophile. Anyone who was caught being a pedophile and would have the chance to plead to something other than being a pedophile would have some real soul-searching "are these people I think are my friends worth it?" kind of questions to ask themselves.

And...well, we know how that question is answered in Team Trump.

[Breccia]

Oh, this guy wasn’t involved in any sex directly. He was delivering bribe money and is trying to get out of that.

And he has every right to explain on his resume "aiding and abetting pedophilia" is better. Unless he pleads out.

[Orange Joe]

And he has every right to explain on his resume "aiding and abetting pedophilia" is better. Unless he pleads out.

Thought the girls were teenagers?

[DarkTZeratul]

Thought the girls were teenagers?

It's still generally considered pedophilia if they're under 18. I feel like most of the people who play the "actually it's ephebophilia" semantics game are people who want that to be okay, and it's really not.

[Edge-]

Thought the girls were teenagers?

One was 17, but let me tell you how boring the pedophilia vs. ebophilia or whatever debate is. (even if this wasn't what you were implying)

It's boring as fuck. And a dude in his 30's fucking a 17 year old is still illegal federally, since he crossed state lines and all.

[Orange Joe]

It's still generally considered pedophilia if they're under 18. I feel like most of the people who play the "actually it's ephebophilia" semantics game are people who want that to be okay, and it's really not.

To ignorant people sure.

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One was 17, but let me tell you how boring the pedophilia vs. ebophilia or whatever debate is. (even if this wasn't what you were implying)

It's boring as fuck. And a dude in his 30's fucking a 17 year old is still illegal federally, since he crossed state lines and all.

then don't use the wrong words?

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Sorry like it or not someone fucking a 6 year old is vastly fucking different from 16 year old.

[Edge-]

Sorry like it or not someone fucking a 6 year old is vastly fucking different from 16 year old.

"Sex with a minor"

Does that please you? Seriously, I told you this debate is. It's really, really, really boring and I'm not quite sure why we need to look out for the reputations of dudes fucking 17 year olds after crossing state lines.

[Breccia]

Thought the girls were teenagers?

Like I said, pedophilia.

[Endus]

One was 17, but let me tell you how boring the pedophilia vs. ebophilia or whatever debate is. (even if this wasn't what you were implying)

It's boring as fuck. And a dude in his 30's fucking a 17 year old is still illegal federally, since he crossed state lines and all.

It's not even a legal distinction. Fucking a 15-year-old will get you pretty much the same sentence as fucking a 10-year-old. It's still statutory rape. The distinctions between the terms are functionally meaningless in public discourse; ephebophilia is not a diagnosis in psychology (pedophilia is), and quibbling about the precise definitions of different non-diagnostic forms of chronophilia is a waste of basically everyone's time, unless you're specifically in the field of psychology at a level where you're contributing to additions and changes made to the DSM between editions or comparable graduate-level research into those subjects.

It's particularly silly since I never see these folks bring up hebephilia. Which they should, if they were working at that level.

In common parlance, "pedophilia" covers wanting to rape minors of any age.

[jonnysensible]

To ignorant people sure.

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then don't use the wrong words?

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Sorry like it or not someone fucking a 6 year old is vastly fucking different from 16 year old.

ooooof

[Zan15]

It's not even a legal distinction. Fucking a 15-year-old will get you pretty much the same sentence as fucking a 10-year-old. It's still statutory rape. The distinctions between the terms are functionally meaningless in public discourse; ephebophilia is not a diagnosis in psychology (pedophilia is), and quibbling about the precise definitions of different non-diagnostic forms of chronophilia is a waste of basically everyone's time, unless you're specifically in the field of psychology at a level where you're contributing to additions and changes made to the DSM between editions or comparable graduate-level research into those subjects.

It's particularly silly since I never see these folks bring up hebephilia. Which they should, if they were working at that level.

In common parlance, "pedophilia" covers wanting to rape minors of any age.

Actually, in the US, once you get below 12 the sentence and charge structure are much more severe, especially at the federal level. Also, once you go below 12 there is no allowance for age gap since the law says no one under 12 can give consent. On top of that most states have sentence structures that take age gap into consideration.

Things might be different up there though for you guys

Also, it's crazy to even talk about the DSM since they purposely kept these type of psychology things out of it for so long because of political ramifications. The govt also pushed to keep it out of being an official diagnosis/definition/diagnosis/etc etc because they did not want these people qualifying for benefits and treatment that would occur if it was officially considered a psychological diagnosis.

It might be mainstream to talk about it all in one bucket of pedophilia but there is a lot of support on the clinical side that in fact there should be at least two buckets of pre and post pubescent classifications.

[Shadowferal]

So...Roy Moore banging that 16yr old...was okay?

[PhaelixWW]

So...Roy Moore banging that 16yr old...was okay?

Who's saying this, again?

[cubby]

It's not even a legal distinction. Fucking a 15-year-old will get you pretty much the same sentence as fucking a 10-year-old. It's still statutory rape. The distinctions between the terms are functionally meaningless in public discourse; ephebophilia is not a diagnosis in psychology (pedophilia is), and quibbling about the precise definitions of different non-diagnostic forms of chronophilia is a waste of basically everyone's time, unless you're specifically in the field of psychology at a level where you're contributing to additions and changes made to the DSM between editions or comparable graduate-level research into those subjects.

It's particularly silly since I never see these folks bring up hebephilia. Which they should, if they were working at that level.

In common parlance, "pedophilia" covers wanting to rape minors of any age.

Age is absolutely a legal distinction. Age has everything to do with this type of crime committed. Statutory Rape can get you serious jail time, but it can also be lightly sentenced, depending on the circumstances (see Romeo and Juliet laws, etc). Rape of a child (someone under the age of 12 and the defendant is at least two years older) is a Class A Felony can carry a life sentence.

Age means everything when it comes to this conversation - it's literally about the age of the individual.

@Orange Joe is correct (although the phraseology could have been a little more diplomatic). You all owe him an apology.

I'm not defending any action in this area of discussion, but it's important to know the correct terms and what the conversation is about. Age is a paramount consideration in these crimes.

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It really isn’t.

It really is - literally.

It’s fun to know where you stand on taking advantage of minors though.
It’s almost like some people want to justify their attraction to minors by saying, “it’s not that bad, they’re biologically adults.”

The personal attacks here are...interesting. I'm just observing here.

[s_bushido]

So...Roy Moore banging that 16yr old...was okay?

See, this is the sort of black and white bullshit that starts this particular argument in the first place. The two things (pedo-/ephebo-) can both be wrong, but there are differences...in a similar way to the differences between murder and manslaughter.

[Edge-]

You all owe him an apology.

Naw dog, I'll keep calling 30somethings paying to fuck "18 year olds" who turn out to be minors, pedos.

As I said, the ebophilia vs. pedophilia debate is boring as fuck, and I don't think most of us are using these terms in any legalistic way that would require such specificity.