Blizzard says that Dracthyr Evoker COULD get a third spec, but it won't be a tank....

[Kithelle]

Isn't that something both the MW Monk and the Holy Pala can do? At least they used to.

I don't think Monk has it anymore, could be wrong. For Holy it's a talent that replaces avenging wrath...and there is a better talent to take

[Xath]

It's not a big deal which it is, adding more tank specs wont add more tanks to the pool...the only time we saw much of a boom was back when they added DK...and that was because how totally flexible DK was back then

Because they have never added another tank that has a ranged dps specs. Any class that doesn't have a ranged dps spec is fighting for 1 of about 3 to 5 spots.

[Kithelle]

Because they have never added another tank that has a ranged dps specs. Any class that doesn't have a ranged dps spec is fighting for 1 of about 3 to 5 spots.

It doesn't matter what they do...people don't want to tank, that is why there aren't a whole lot of tanks.

[oplawlz]

Unless they add more tanking spots to raids there is no reason to add more tanking specs. People still aren't going to roll one when they have to swap back to dps for raids.
That said an aspect infused melee would be cool, as long as they differentiated the spells enough not to just be a better version of shammies.

[Triceron]

I love tanking but I play whatever I need to in order to raid at the level I am accustomed to and there are few open tank spots. I only play alts when chores are done on main and given how many there are now I don't play alts much unfortunately.

I mean, I honestly don't blame you for choosing to play how you wish to choose to play, and I completely understand that is the same sentiment of the majority of players. Yet this is exactly the problem we're talking about. A Player mentality first problem, not one of class design.

15's are not hard, and you're actively telling me you aren't interested in rolling an alt to do them. Well, why would that suddenly convince me that anyone else should be bothered to do the same thing? This is a player problem.

Cuz let's be honest, if it was common practice for Hybrid players swapping specs to tank 15's, we wouldn't be talking about high queues for mediocre content.

[Xath]

I mean, I honestly don't blame you for choosing to play how you wish to choose to play, and I completely understand that is the same sentiment of the majority of players. Yet this is exactly the problem we're talking about. A Player mentality first problem, not one of class design.

15's are not hard, and you're actively telling me you aren't interested in rolling an alt to do them. Well, why would that suddenly convince me that anyone else should be bothered to do the same thing? This is a player problem.

Cuz let's be honest, if it was common practice for Hybrid players swapping specs to tank 15's, we wouldn't be talking about high queues for mediocre content.

Are you being purposefully obtuse? I literally said I play tanks when I can but I need to get my weekly chores done on raiding characters. I'm not talking about rolling it as an alt I'm talking about playing it as a main dps and tanking outside of raid assuming the dps spec is viable obviously. I'd much rather tank than heal in M+.

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Unless they add more tanking spots to raids there is no reason to add more tanking specs. People still aren't going to roll one when they have to swap back to dps for raids.
That said an aspect infused melee would be cool, as long as they differentiated the spells enough not to just be a better version of shammies.

Yeah I mean there isn't a massive shortage of tanks for 5 mans or anything

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Unless they add more tanking spots to raids there is no reason to add more tanking specs. People still aren't going to roll one when they have to swap back to dps for raids.
That said an aspect infused melee would be cool, as long as they differentiated the spells enough not to just be a better version of shammies.

People will happily tank outside of raids if there are classes with viability inside raid that aren't fighting over a miniscule number of spots.

[Molvonos]

Something that people need to understand, that they have a hard time understanding...

There isn't a lack of tanks of healers, there's a surplus of dps. The fact you need 60% dps to 20%/20% Tank/Healer for any true group content (percentages skew even heavier for raiding), coupled with the fact that a lot of people don't want the responsibilities that being tank/healer requires, compared to a DPS (because let's face it, you can carry a dps through some hard content, you cannot carry a tank or healer in similar fashion).

Adding another tank spec (because people have this weird fucking headcanon that Black Dragonflight = Tank) isn't going to magically fix that, nor did Blizz add the Evoker Healer spec to 'help' the healing pool -- they did it because they haven't properly added a RDPS/Healer (aside from Monk for the healer aspect) compared to melee dps/tanks.

It's not rocket surgery to figure this stuff out, no need to try and big brain it.

[Twdft]

There isn't a lack of tanks of healers, there's a surplus of dps. The fact you need 60% dps to 20%/20% Tank/Healer for any true group content (percentages skew even heavier for raiding), coupled with the fact that a lot of people don't want the responsibilities that being tank/healer requires, compared to a DPS (because let's face it, you can carry a dps through some hard content, you cannot carry a tank or healer in similar fashion).

Does anyone ever have a problem finding a tank/healer when playing with their friends/guild?

I think there are very well enough tanks and healers, just not enough willing to pug/lfd/lfr. It's a social problem, Blizzard could give every class a tank spec and there still won't be enough for pugs.

[oplawlz]

People will happily tank outside of raids if there are classes with viability inside raid that aren't fighting over a miniscule number of spots.

There are people who feel this way, yes, but I suspect the number is much lower than you think. Even if they play alts most people only gear one class/spec up to the level of whatever they consider to be progression content - anything beyond that requires too much of their game time to be bothered with. Compound that with the other issues associated with tanking (real or imagined pressure to be an expert in all content) and they just nope out of tanking altogether.

I would argue this is proven by how few hybrids tank in 5 mans.

[Xath]

There are people who feel this way, yes, but I suspect the number is much lower than you think. Even if they play alts most people only gear one class/spec up to the level of whatever they consider to be progression content - anything beyond that requires too much of their game time to be bothered with. Compound that with the other issues associated with tanking (real or imagined pressure to be an expert in all content) and they just nope out of tanking altogether.

I would argue this is proven by how few hybrids tank in 5 mans.

You realize literally every hybrid is a tank there are no tank only classes. Again I'm not talking about alts I'm talking about playing dps in raid and tank outside of raid. There also isn't seperate gear to collect at most a weapon and maybe trinket differences.

[Molvonos]

Does anyone ever have a problem finding a tank/healer when playing with their friends/guild?

I think there are very well enough tanks and healers, just not enough willing to pug/lfd/lfr. It's a social problem, Blizzard could give every class a tank spec and there still won't be enough for pugs.

I mean, you're not wrong.

I stopped tanking pugs because of how toxic shit was and most of the toxicity came from the dps (as a dps, rarely was a tank toxic, though it did happen). Only time a healer was 'toxic' was a result of the dps doing dumb shit, like pulling way more in an effort to hurry the tank along. When I played alliance with my best friend, we both rolled NE's specifically for nonsense like that. I tank, she heals, and if DPS does dumb stuff, Shadowmeld.

[oplawlz]

You realize literally every hybrid is a tank there are no tank only classes. Again I'm not talking about alts I'm talking about playing dps in raid and tank outside of raid. There also isn't seperate gear to collect at most a weapon and maybe trinket differences.

The point is people have the choice to tank on their classes with a much shorter q and still don't.

There shouldn't be differences in gear, but the last few expacs have had leggos, azarite armor, conduits, etc that have created hurdles for tanking and dpsing at the same level until the catch ups hit, and by then it's too late.

[Triceron]

Are you being purposefully obtuse? I literally said I play tanks when I can but I need to get my weekly chores done on raiding characters.

Like, we're just circling back to the same issue I've presented since the beginning. The community-wide problem stems from a lack of willingness to tank. That you personally are willing and simply don't feel compelled to play an alt to do so changes nothing.

Like you said, it isn't hard to tank mediocre content, and you could if you wanted to. Yet you don't want to. Yeah, and I can say this is pretty much the same mentality that most players have. Healers and DPS who are playing Hybrid classes already aren't openly and freely swapping to tanks at a wide scale. It happens less than you think it does, otherwise tank issues wouldn't actually be a problem. It's a problem because there are less people willing to tank than there is a demand for tanks, and we already know the many reasons why this is so. When it comes down to it, it's not because of a lack of tank options.

[Ghanir]

It would be neat if we could get another tank/rdps class (and the potential 3rd spec being any role) tho. That way those that like ranged dps but think they can play tank every once in a while have something besides the druid to roll.

This is sort of what I hoped the Evoker would be, but since they've been adamant in their reasoning about the Evoker being a pure Intellect-class then it would have to be the next potential class.

And although I get it that it's way too late to say "just add another class to the Dracthyr that fills the roles the Evoker doesn't" that's sort of my go-to wish for the Dracthyr since there are so many that wanna play a dragon-man and that race cannot fulfill every role which will push away a lot of people, it would also be a good argument to add additional Dracthyr models (slender and bulky) to stop the model-arguments.
Then again would a dragon-man tank really be the best alternative to druids? Would kinda be, for lack of better words, going from a "furry" to a "scalie". If one doesn't mesh well with the druid it'd prob. be better if they either introduced some new creature that can tank/rdps or another multi-racial class.

[Kharli]

Why exactly does WoW not need more tanks?

Here is a list of tanks, thats been added to the game, starting with classic.

---Classic&TBC---
1.Protection warrior
2.Protection Paladin
3.Guardian druid
--Wrath---
4.Blood Death knight
--MoP---
6.Brewmaster Monk
---Legion--
7. Demon hunters
----
So, we got 7 tank specs and still there is often than not a lack of tanks when queuing for dungeons, because tanking is a really really stressful role to do in game, just like healing are.

3 out of the 7 tanks are also healer classes and have dps classes all of them has a melee class in addition to one having a range spec.

so yeah.. as a off-spec tank, yeah.. we dont need more tank classes, we need more people playing tanks(I play tank when I queue for dungeons often than not and I fill in for my guild tanks when there arent any tanks for us in the raids)

[Teriz]

Here is a list of tanks, thats been added to the game, starting with classic.

---Classic&TBC---
1.Protection warrior
2.Protection Paladin
3.Guardian druid
--Wrath---
4.Blood Death knight
--MoP---
6.Brewmaster Monk
---Legion--
7. Demon hunters
----
So, we got 7 tank specs and still there is often than not a lack of tanks when queuing for dungeons, because tanking is a really really stressful role to do in game, just like healing are.

3 out of the 7 tanks are also healer classes and have dps classes all of them has a melee class in addition to one having a range spec.

so yeah.. as a off-spec tank, yeah.. we dont need more tank classes, we need more people playing tanks(I play tank when I queue for dungeons often than not and I fill in for my guild tanks when there arent any tanks for us in the raids)

……….

We got six tank specs dude….

[Xath]

Like, we're just circling back to the same issue I've presented since the beginning. The community-wide problem stems from a lack of willingness to tank. That you personally are willing and simply don't feel compelled to play an alt to do so changes nothing.

Like you said, it isn't hard to tank mediocre content, and you could if you wanted to. Yet you don't want to. Yeah, and I can say this is pretty much the same mentality that most players have. Healers and DPS who are playing Hybrid classes already aren't openly and freely swapping to tanks at a wide scale. It happens less than you think it does, otherwise tank issues wouldn't actually be a problem. It's a problem because there are less people willing to tank than there is a demand for tanks, and we already know the many reasons why this is so. When it comes down to it, it's not because of a lack of tank options.

Are you trying to make me start slamming my head into a desk? I CAN'T TANK ON MY MAIN RAIDING CHARCTERS. They do not have the option to tank. Is that freaking clear yet? I still tank on alts because I enjoy tanking but no ranged dps besides boomkin has the option to tank. Most ranged dps don't have the option to heal either. A good chunk of the raiding population of this game is made up of classes that CAN NOT tank or heal no matter how much they wish to. The community wide problem stems from this issue. Our dps happily go heals or tanks to get weekly chores done quicker. I would as well but I am physically unable to due to the class that I play which the raid wishes me to play. Do you comprehend this yet?

Adding another tank spec to a class that can do ranged dps in raid which is wanted far more than melee dps would absolutely help with that issue. Would it help as much as adding 4th specs to the classes that can't currently tank or heal obviously not but blizz doesn't seem to want to do that.

- - - Updated - - -

Here is a list of tanks, thats been added to the game, starting with classic.

---Classic&TBC---
1.Protection warrior
2.Protection Paladin
3.Guardian druid
--Wrath---
4.Blood Death knight
--MoP---
6.Brewmaster Monk
---Legion--
7. Demon hunters
----
So, we got 7 tank specs and still there is often than not a lack of tanks when queuing for dungeons, because tanking is a really really stressful role to do in game, just like healing are.

3 out of the 7 tanks are also healer classes and have dps classes all of them has a melee class in addition to one having a range spec.

so yeah.. as a off-spec tank, yeah.. we dont need more tank classes, we need more people playing tanks(I play tank when I queue for dungeons often than not and I fill in for my guild tanks when there arent any tanks for us in the raids)

And none of them except druid can do ranged dps.

[Triceron]

Are you trying to make me start slamming my head into a desk? I CAN'T TANK ON MY MAIN RAIDING CHARCTERS. They do not have the option to tank. Is that freaking clear yet? I still tank on alts because I enjoy tanking but no ranged dps besides boomkin has the option to tank. Most ranged dps don't have the option to heal either. A good chunk of the raiding population of this game is made up of classes that CAN NOT tank or heal no matter how much they wish to. The community wide problem stems from this issue. Our dps happily go heals or tanks to get weekly chores done quicker. I would as well but I am physically unable to due to the class that I play which the raid wishes me to play. Do you comprehend this yet?

Then the fact that you DO tank means you're not exhibiting the same problems that are contributing to the overall demand of Tanks.

That is my point.

You're trying to illustrate a problem that doesn't exist; that being it merely isn't convenient for you to tank on your chosen Pure DPS main. This is not the problem with the lack of tanks amongst the community at large.

You understand this, yet you still want to perpetuate the idea that more tanking specs would increase more tanks because you somehow believe that the problem is significantly tied to your own situation. It is not. The problem exists well beyond the scope of your own anecdotal situation, and we know this because the problem exists amongst all hybrid classes that have the ability to tank and a general unwillingness for other people to swap to a tank.

[Xath]

Then the fact that you DO tank means you're not exhibiting the same problems that are contributing to the overall demand of Tanks.

That is my point.

You're trying to illustrate a problem that doesn't exist; that being it merely isn't convenient for you to tank on your chosen Pure DPS main. This is not the problem with the lack of tanks amongst the community at large.

You understand this, yet you still want to perpetuate the idea that more tanking specs would increase more tanks because you somehow believe that the problem is significantly tied to your own situation. It is not.

Okay let's try this again. I do 10 dungeons a week approximately. 8 on my main and 1 on my blood dk 1 on my prot pally I juse don't currently have time for more. If Locks for example could be tanks that would 8 more runs that would have a tank available for them and 8 more runs that another dps player could be in instead of sitting in queue. I know quite a few other current dps players who do the same thing.

What I don't understand is why you are so against adding another tanking spec and instead want what would presumable be another melee dps spec.

[Triceron]

Okay let's try this again. I do 10 dungeons a week approximately. 8 on my main and 1 on my blood dk 1 on my prot pally I juse don't currently have time for more. If Locks for example could be tanks that would 8 more runs that would have a tank available for them and 8 more runs that another dps player could be in instead of sitting in queue. I know quite a few other current dps players who do the same thing.

What I don't understand is why you are so against adding another tanking spec and instead want what would presumable be another melee dps spec.

Because the problem you are illustrating is absolutely anecdotal.

The problem isn't coming from Pure DPS lacking tank spec options. That you and the people you know are willing to tank of you had the spec has little bearing on the greater problems.

Like, what is the point of this? You and your friends aren't indicative of the greater tanking problems that exist in the community at large.

If I made a point that Gnomes are one of the least popular played races in the game because people don't prefer picking them overall, and you tell me that you know many people who like Gnomes, it doesn't change the facts at large that Gnomes are one the least popular picked race. It doesn't matter if you and your guild are okay with gnomes, because the problem isn't relative to how you or your guild regards Gnomes. It's a much greater issue that contributes to Gnomes being one of the least played races.