Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Battlebeard]

Are you fucking kidding me with this post? Overwatch only has cosmetics available for real money. DIABLO 2 ACTIVELY SELLS PLAYER POWER FOR MONEY AND IT'S NOT EVEN GUARANTEED. It's the definition of fucking gambling. Either read the definition of gambling or stop posting on this topic because your last comment is beyond asinine.

They don't sell power. They don't sell either gear, or legendary gems. They sell an opportunity to get power faster than F2P. If they sold a random gem, sure, it's gambling, but random gem frim Rift is the same for F2P players. The crests you buy are not more powerful than the free ones, same chance of getting powerful gems.

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My brother in Christ, you literally call it gambling one sentence above.

I don't know what word to use, "participate in RNG more" I guess is more fair. Gamble is such a strange word for this, as there are so many forms of gambling.

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You buy the legendary crests to upgrade your keystone rofl. At least try be sincere

You buy Crests, and they guarantee a random legendary gem. So does free legendary crests, they also guarantee a legendary gem. You don't buy power, you buy time, I find it quite different from one another.

[TheRevenantHero]

They don't sell power. They don't sell either gear, or legendary gems. They sell an opportunity to get power faster than F2P. If they sold a random gem, sure, it's gambling, but random gem frim Rift is the same for F2P players. The crests you buy are not more powerful than the free ones, same chance of getting powerful gems.

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I don't know what word to use, "participate in RNG more" I guess is more fair. Gamble is such a strange word for this, as there are so many forms of gambling.

I'm convinced that your posts are either satire or you actually work for Blizzard. Like....holy fucking shit. There is absolutely no way you are trying to be serious with this. You are beyond wrong. They are actively selling people things that are not guaranteed to be the best quality stuff. Not only is that pay to win BUT THAT'S OUTRIGHT GAMBLING. You really have absolutely no idea what gambling is do you?

Gamble: to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gamble

[Battlebeard]

I'm convinced that your posts are either satire or you actually work for Blizzard. Like....holy fucking shit. There is absolutely no way you are trying to be serious with this. You are beyond wrong. They are actively selling people things that are not guaranteed to be the best quality stuff. Not only is that pay to win BUT THAT'S OUTRIGHT GAMBLING. You really have absolutely no idea what gambling is do you?

Gamble: to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gamble

You don't get it. YOU DO NOT BUY A RANDOM GEM. You buy a rift key, the same key that you can get for free. If you think the paid crest (key) is gambling, then the free key is also gambling, and this game would be a gambling game even if it was 100% free. Yet you only attack the paid crest, not how the Elder Rifts work in general. You don't stake or risk money, you KNOW what you get, you get a crest, that is what they sell. You don't have a chance at getting a crest, you don't get a random crest, you get the same crest every time, there is no gambling in buying a crest. The Rift reward is not part of the transaction.

People know what they get, they get a key, whatever they do with it, what ever they get with it, is not part of the transaction. Just like it works in CS:GO where you buy keys to open free lootboxes. That is not gambling either. Only selling the box would be gambling, just like buying a random gem would be gambling.

I wish I worked for Blizzard, but no, I'm just a big fan of the game, and I'm so sick and tired of all the haters of this amazing game. I've gotten far into the game and I haven't paid, it's really frustrating to hear one cannot play this game properly unless one pay, cause it's simply not true.

[TheRevenantHero]

You don't get it. YOU DO NOT BUY A RANDOM GEM. You buy a rift key, the same key that you can get for free. If you think the paid crest (key) is gambling, then the free key is also gambling, and this game would be a gambling game even if it was 100% free. Yet you only attack the paid crest, not how the Elder Rifts work in general. You don't stake or risk money, you KNOW what you get, you get a crest, that is what they sell. You don't have a chance at getting a crest, you don't get a random crest, you get the same crest every time, there is no gambling in buying a crest. The Rift reward is not part of the transaction.

People know what they get, they get a key, whatever they do with it, what ever they get with it, is not part of the transaction. Just like it works in CS:GO where you buy keys to open free lootboxes. That is not gambling either. Only selling the box would be gambling, just like buying a random gem would be gambling.

I wish I worked for Blizzard, but no, I'm just a big fan of the game, and I'm so sick and tired of all the haters of this amazing game. I've gotten far into the game and I haven't paid, it's really frustrating to hear one cannot play this game properly unless one pay, cause it's simply not true.

It's not an amazing game. It's literally the lowest rated game in Metacritic history. It's banned in numerous countries BECAUSE IT CONTAINS OUTRIGHT GAMBLING. you are leaving so many things out that it's fucking aggravating. Stop licking Blizzard's boots, dude. They're not going to give you free shit. All you're doing is making yourself look like an asinine and overzealous fanboy.

I also think you are 100% full of shit about not spending money on the game. Because everything you've said so far paints you as a massive whale who refuses to admit it. I even gave you the definition of gambling and you chose to disregard it because then you'd finally have to say something negative about the game.

[crusadernero]

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I don't know what word to use, "participate in RNG more" I guess is more fair. Gamble is such a strange word for this, as there are so many forms of gambling.

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Since you aknowledge "gambling" comes in many forms, is it so hard to admit that it excists in DI? It might not be directly gambling as we are used to think of it, with traditionally it being liked to games were you bet and win/lose money. We all agree that you gamble in casinos. We all agree that you gamble when playing on online gambling sites. You put in money for a chance to win money.

In DI you put in money to obtain better items. The only difference is that in DI you dont get money if you win, you get items. What they do have in common though is that you gotta spend money for a chance of getting the item. Even then, you might not get the desired item. Just like in traditional gambling, were even if you win, it might not be a big sum(like you want).

So, you spend money in DI for a chance of "winning" great items. Theres no reason to debate the use of the word "gambling", its a waste of time really. It is what it is and theres no need to complicate things. We should move on from that and instead discuss if this is something we want in gaming in general.

You also say that you play DI just fine as F2P, and I cant really do anything else than trust you on that. If you manage that fine, thats cool. Most people can probably do that just fine, but this game is designed in a predatory practice towards those that do get tricket into spending money.

Casinos, online gambling and gambling in general is not a problem for most people. Most people spend miniscoule amount of money on it, but there are lots of people that struggle with it. We know it, game devs know it, Blizzard knows it. Yet, they use this practice in videogames. Its a disgrace and we really dont need it. At all.

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I wish I worked for Blizzard, but no, I'm just a big fan of the game, and I'm so sick and tired of all the haters of this amazing game. I've gotten far into the game and I haven't paid, it's really frustrating to hear one cannot play this game properly unless one pay, cause it's simply not true.

If you actually are a big fan of Blizzard and the games, then you should admit that DI is one of the worst released games they have ever had. In contest with WC3 Reforged, and that game is a clusterfuck.

DI is a very, very bad game since we all know the potensial is so much bigger. We should expect much more and not settle for halfassed p2w schemes. If I wanted that, i'd just pick up my phone and download one of the millions of p2w action games that excists.

[Battlebeard]

It's not an amazing game. It's literally the lowest rated game in Metacritic history. It's banned in numerous countries BECAUSE IT CONTAINS OUTRIGHT GAMBLING. you are leaving so many things out that it's fucking aggravating. Stop licking Blizzard's boots, dude. They're not going to give you free shit. All you're doing is making yourself look like an asinine and overzealous fanboy.

I also think you are 100% full of shit about not spending money on the game. Because everything you've said so far paints you as a massive whale who refuses to admit it. I even gave you the definition of gambling and you chose to disregard it because then you'd finally have to say something negative about the game.

Your definition don't apply here. Or rather isn't relevant. This game may have "gambling" if you wanna use that word, but it's free gambling. Why? Cause the crests are lootboxes themselves, and even if you argue they are currency for gambling, so are the free crests, so you don't HAVE to buy any crest. You don't have to buy gambling to play the game. If the crests were irl money exclusive, I could buy your argument (maybe), but they are not, you can just play the free and the gambling you participate is free, just like Kadala is free in D3 or any rift boss loot is free (yet random) in D3, and many other mmorpgs and arpgs.

And the game has a low metacricit score because people don't like the P2W aspect. IF the game was completely free, well then it wouldn't exist, but in theory, then it would have a very high score, cause the game itself is fantastic.

[TheRevenantHero]

Your definition don't apply here. Or rather isn't relevant. This game may have "gambling" if you wanna use that word, but it's free gambling. Why? Cause the crests are lootboxes themselves, and even if you argue they are currency for gambling, so are the free crests, so you don't HAVE to buy any crest. You don't have to buy gambling to play the game. If the crests were irl money exclusive, I could buy your argument (maybe), but they are not, you can just play the free and the gambling you participate is free, just like Kadala is free in D3 or any rift boss loot is free (yet random) in D3, and many other mmorpgs and arpgs.

And the game has a low metacricit score because people don't like the P2W aspect. IF the game was completely free, well then it wouldn't exist, but in theory, then it would have a very high score, cause the game itself is fantastic.

"The game doesn't have gambling despite numerous countries stating otherwise and the definition of gambling stating otherwise because I said so." Everything in your last post is 100% fucking bullshit and it's honestly alarming that you actually believe it. You are trying to say EVERYONE BUT YOU is wrong. you are clearly not actually perceiving reality properly.

No. If you read the reviews, it's because the game is actual fucking dogshit. The pay to win aspects just made it way way worse. Seek help, dude. You clearly need to see a mental health professional.

[Delekii]

You don't get it. YOU DO NOT BUY A RANDOM GEM. You buy a rift key, the same key that you can get for free. If you think the paid crest (key) is gambling, then the free key is also gambling, and this game would be a gambling game even if it was 100% free. Yet you only attack the paid crest, not how the Elder Rifts work in general. You don't stake or risk money, you KNOW what you get, you get a crest, that is what they sell. You don't have a chance at getting a crest, you don't get a random crest, you get the same crest every time, there is no gambling in buying a crest. The Rift reward is not part of the transaction.

People know what they get, they get a key, whatever they do with it, what ever they get with it, is not part of the transaction. Just like it works in CS:GO where you buy keys to open free lootboxes. That is not gambling either. Only selling the box would be gambling, just like buying a random gem would be gambling.

I wish I worked for Blizzard, but no, I'm just a big fan of the game, and I'm so sick and tired of all the haters of this amazing game. I've gotten far into the game and I haven't paid, it's really frustrating to hear one cannot play this game properly unless one pay, cause it's simply not true.

Fucking christ, the mental gymnastics are astounding.

What you are saying is akin to saying that gambling with chips isn't gambling because when you paid for them you know what you got. Putting a transitional layer between the money and the gamble doesn't suddenly make it not gambling. In fact, the putting a layer between the two is a further tactic used by the company to obfuscate the real world value to people (seemingly such as you) so that people underestimate the real world cost to their gambling. You are entirely correct that the in game, free legendary crests are a gamble... but it is utterly intellectually dishonest to compare that with paying real-world cash for one. Players have functionally no stake in a free crest gamble. They don't in a paid crest gamble. It is not at all confusing - unless you're trying to confuse them.

You can "play this game properly" without paying, you just will never, ever have the full experience that you would have got had the game not been designed around milking cash cows. The game is measurably worse than it should have been. Instead of making the best game they could make and selling it, they made a lesser game and sell solutions to the problems.

You're allowed to enjoy the game and call out the shit parts at the same time. If you enjoy the game on its own merits, more power to you; the majority of reviewers disagree but that doesn't make you wrong for enjoying the game. That is an entirely different discussion from whether or not the game is pay-to-win, contains gambling, or any other discussion around such things; you're allowed to have conflicting views. If you're a free-to-play player who thinks the monetization of this product is actually ok, that really makes you a fool.

[Battlebeard]

"The game doesn't have gambling despite numerous countries stating otherwise and the definition of gambling stating otherwise because I said so." Everything in your last post is 100% fucking bullshit and it's honestly alarming that you actually believe it. You are trying to say EVERYONE BUT YOU is wrong. you are clearly not actually perceiving reality properly.

No. If you read the reviews, it's because the game is actual fucking dogshit. The pay to win aspects just made it way way worse. Seek help, dude. You clearly need to see a mental health professional.

What exactly do people find bad other than the P2W? The controls are absolutely amazing, it's impossible to go back to D3, the WASD movement is fanastic. The dungeons are really cool, PvP is fun (haven't met any whale yet though), and Rifts are solid. There are also plenty of stuff to do out in the world with side quests, bounties, contracts (if shadow) daily goals (if immortal). You can also progress nicely in your codex and do various activities and achievements.

And the Shadow vs Immortal is cool too, a Vault you can raid or defend depending on faction, as well as various special challenges for each faction, like a raid boss event for Immortals and those special challenge levels for Shadows.

Could there be even more content, sure, but the content we have is really, really good.

[Darkeon]

I don't know what word to use, "participate in RNG more" I guess is more fair. Gamble is such a strange word for this, as there are so many forms of gambling.

My Brother in Christ, know that He is judging you as hard as I am. Why not use "Usage of real-life money in exchange for a chance to win something"? Or, if you'd prefer the short term, gamble.

[TheRevenantHero]

What exactly do people find bad other than the P2W? The controls are absolutely amazing, it's impossible to go back to D3, the WASD movement is fanastic. The dungeons are really cool, PvP is fun (haven't met any whale yet though), and Rifts are solid. There are also plenty of stuff to do out in the world with side quests, bounties, contracts (if shadow) daily goals (if immortal). You can also progress nicely in your codex and do various activities and achievements.

And the Shadow vs Immortal is cool too, a Vault you can raid or defend depending on faction, as well as various special challenges for each faction, like a raid boss event for Immortals and those special challenge levels for Shadows.

Could there be even more content, sure, but the content we have is really, really good.

The controls are absolute shit. The game is nothing but small sections of maps instanced by load screens. The classes are just dumbed down versions of Diablo 3. The endgame is fucking trash. The PvP is some of the worst I've seen in ANY video game. And Rifts are incredibly repetitive and boring.

You seem like the kind of person who thought Warcraft 3 Reforged was a good game too. You're either delusional or very VERY easily entertained. Or you haven't played many video games at all.

[Battlebeard]

Fucking christ, the mental gymnastics are astounding.

What you are saying is akin to saying that gambling with chips isn't gambling because when you paid for them you know what you got. Putting a transitional layer between the money and the gamble doesn't suddenly make it not gambling. In fact, the putting a layer between the two is a further tactic used by the company to obfuscate the real world value to people (seemingly such as you) so that people underestimate the real world cost to their gambling. You are entirely correct that the in game, free legendary crests are a gamble... but it is utterly intellectually dishonest to compare that with paying real-world cash for one. Players have functionally no stake in a free crest gamble. They don't in a paid crest gamble. It is not at all confusing - unless you're trying to confuse them.

You can "play this game properly" without paying, you just will never, ever have the full experience that you would have got had the game not been designed around milking cash cows. The game is measurably worse than it should have been. Instead of making the best game they could make and selling it, they made a lesser game and sell solutions to the problems.

You're allowed to enjoy the game and call out the shit parts at the same time. If you enjoy the game on its own merits, more power to you; the majority of reviewers disagree but that doesn't make you wrong for enjoying the game. That is an entirely different discussion from whether or not the game is pay-to-win, contains gambling, or any other discussion around such things; you're allowed to have conflicting views. If you're a free-to-play player who thinks the monetization of this product is actually ok, that really makes you a fool.

If we drop the gamble discussion, you bring up two other points that are important.

1. You CAN play the game properly, you CAN compete in both BG leaderboards and Challenge Rift leaderboards fairly okey as a F2P, it all depends how many whales your server have. I've peaked at rank 3 DH on mine F2P, and right now, after inspecting, only like the top 5 are whales, the rest are F2P. If you care THAT much about being top 5, then come on dude, top rank is not everything, and you cannot judge an entire game just cause you won't reach top 5. Other than top spots, there is nothing Whales can do better than us, cause they are also limited by other factors such as paragon level. They might be able to enter Hell 3 earlier but they cannot use the gear for quite some time, in fact, you need level 80 to use them, and not even the whaliest of whales is para 80 on my server, they are at best 76, and that's what many F2P players are as well, so the difference isn't as huge as people make it out to be.

In fact, the only difference between the top 1 DH and me, is his gems, that's it. He's 5 paragon higher but that's because I slacked over midsummer and he didn't, but other than that, he don't have better gear or upgrades on the gear, just his gems, and we both play Hell 2, been in dungeon groups with him many times, so it's not like he's blasting Hell 3 or 4, we are quite equal tbh, he just do a few higher challenge rifts, and I couldn't care less.

2. There cannot possibly be a Diablo Immortal that isn't P2W. This is where so many are mistaken, including Asmongold. Diablo Immortal is a MOBILE game, it was made for mobile, that was it's original idea, and we just happened to get a PC port. This didn't start as a Diablo game that became a mobile game, this started as a mobile project that ended up having a Diablo theme. Why is this relevant? It is because P2W is the ONLY realistic way to fund a mobile game. It's the only way to make money in the mobile industry, so to say "making the best game they could make and selling it" is a scenario that can never happen. That is because the mobile industry has a completely different audience than PC and Console. Out of everyone who play Diablo Immortal, VERY FEW are Blizzard and Diablo fans, the vast majority are mobile gamers, who's other games include Candy Crush etc.

The thing about mobile "gamers", the casual commuter who play at the subway or on his bathroom breaks, or the "soccer mom" is that this audience have zero passion for games, it's something they do to kill time. They don't want to buy games, nor do they want to subscribe to them. They install free apps and if they like they, they pay later. Buying a game before trying it doesn't exist here. The ONLY way you can possibly fund these games is Microtransactions, and here is the thing, the casual gamer and the soccer mom, doesn't care one bit about cosmetics. They will never spend money on skins etc. BUT they will spend money to not feel stuck, so they can continue their game. That's why Candy Crush, where you buy lives and upgrades is so enormously huge, it offers what the mobile gamer wants.

The point is, Diablo Immortal could only ever exist as P2W. This was a cashgrab mobile project (and also a good game) but without the cashgrab part, they would never have bothered making this game. It's either P2W DI or No DI.

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The controls are absolute shit. The game is nothing but small sections of maps instanced by load screens. The classes are just dumbed down versions of Diablo 3. The endgame is fucking trash. The PvP is some of the worst I've seen in ANY video game. And Rifts are incredibly repetitive and boring.

You seem like the kind of person who thought Warcraft 3 Reforged was a good game too. You're either delusional or very VERY easily entertained. Or you haven't played many video games at all.

I absolutely disagree with your points, but I mean, controls is sorta subjective. I LOVE WASD movement, but some like click to move games. I hate FPS shooters on console but some love it.

I've played many games, and the best way to describe Immortal is a mix of Diablo 3 and Lost Ark. It took the best aspect from both games and combined them into this. I find the game absolutely fantastic.

But the ARPG genre is not for everyone. It is a grindy genre, there is a lot of seemingly repetitive chores, but that is part of the charm, that's also very much how Diablo 3 works, how PoE works, how Lost Ark works. If you don't like ARPGS, well then I don't blame you for not liking Immortal. However, if this is not genre, you shouldn't be so harsh toward it. I don't like Battle royale games, but I don't go hating on Fortnite, cause those games are not for me.

[TheRevenantHero]

If we drop the gamble discussion, you bring up two other points that are important.

1. You CAN play the game properly, you CAN compete in both BG leaderboards and Challenge Rift leaderboards fairly okey as a F2P, it all depends how many whales your server have. I've peaked at rank 3 DH on mine F2P, and right now, after inspecting, only like the top 5 are whales, the rest are F2P. If you care THAT much about being top 5, then come on dude, top rank is not everything, and you cannot judge an entire game just cause you won't reach top 5. Other than top spots, there is nothing Whales can do better than us, cause they are also limited by other factors such as paragon level. They might be able to enter Hell 3 earlier but they cannot use the gear for quite some time, in fact, you need level 80 to use them, and not even the whaliest of whales is para 80 on my server, they are at best 76, and that's what many F2P players are as well, so the difference isn't as huge as people make it out to be.

In fact, the only difference between the top 1 DH and me, is his gems, that's it. He's 5 paragon higher but that's because I slacked over midsummer and he didn't, but other than that, he don't have better gear or upgrades on the gear, just his gems, and we both play Hell 2, been in dungeon groups with him many times, so it's not like he's blasting Hell 3 or 4, we are quite equal tbh, he just do a few higher challenge rifts, and I couldn't care less.

2. There cannot possibly be a Diablo Immortal that isn't P2W. This is where so many are mistaken, including Asmongold. Diablo Immortal is a MOBILE game, it was made for mobile, that was it's original idea, and we just happened to get a PC port. This didn't start as a Diablo game that became a mobile game, this started as a mobile project that ended up having a Diablo theme. Why is this relevant? It is because P2W is the ONLY realistic way to fund a mobile game. It's the only way to make money in the mobile industry, so to say "making the best game they could make and selling it" is a scenario that can never happen. That is because the mobile industry has a completely different audience than PC and Console. Out of everyone who play Diablo Immortal, VERY FEW are Blizzard and Diablo fans, the vast majority are mobile gamers, who's other games include Candy Crush etc.

The thing about mobile "gamers", the casual commuter who play at the subway or on his bathroom breaks, or the "soccer mom" is that this audience have zero passion for games, it's something they do to kill time. They don't want to buy games, nor do they want to subscribe to them. They install free apps and if they like they, they pay later. Buying a game before trying it doesn't exist here. The ONLY way you can possibly fund these games is Microtransactions, and here is the thing, the casual gamer and the soccer mom, doesn't care one bit about cosmetics. They will never spend money on skins etc. BUT they will spend money to not feel stuck, so they can continue their game. That's why Candy Crush, where you buy lives and upgrades is so enormously huge, it offers what the mobile gamer wants.

The point is, Diablo Immortal could only ever exist as P2W. This was a cashgrab mobile project (and also a good game) but without the cashgrab part, they would never have bothered making this game. It's either P2W DI or No DI.

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I absolutely disagree with your points, but I mean, controls is sorta subjective. I LOVE WASD movement, but some like click to move games. I hate FPS shooters on console but some love it.

I've played many games, and the best way to describe Immortal is a mix of Diablo 3 and Lost Ark. It took the best aspect from both games and combined them into this. I find the game absolutely fantastic.

But the ARPG genre is not for everyone. It is a grindy genre, there is a lot of seemingly repetitive chores, but that is part of the charm, that's also very much how Diablo 3 works, how PoE works, how Lost Ark works. If you don't like ARPGS, well then I don't blame you for not liking Immortal. However, if this is not genre, you shouldn't be so harsh toward it. I don't like Battle royale games, but I don't go hating on Fortnite, cause those games are not for me.

I can't even take you seriously anymore. Diablo 3 and Lost Ark are superior to D:I in literally every way. It's blatantly clear that D:I is the first Diablo game you've ever played. Hell, I'm convinced it's the first ARPG you've ever played. I've played A LOT of ARPGs. D:I is hands down the worst I've ever played. I'd rather play Torchlight 3 and that game is absolute fucking garbage.

I don't like Diablo Immortal because it's a shitty fucking game. Just say you like really terrible games and save us the asinine paragraphs filled with dishonesty and your incredibly rudimentary game experience.

[Battlebeard]

I can't even take you seriously anymore. Diablo 3 and Lost Ark are superior to D:I in literally every way. It's blatantly clear that D:I is the first Diablo game you've ever played. Hell, I'm convinced it's the first ARPG you've ever played. I've played A LOT of ARPGs. D:I is hands down the worst I've ever played. I'd rather play Torchlight 3 and that game is absolute fucking garbage.

I don't like Diablo Immortal because it's a shitty fucking game. Just say you like really terrible games and save us the asinine paragraphs filled with dishonesty and your incredibly rudimentary game experience.

I've played many ARPGS and for quite some time. I prolly have 500+ hours of D2, 2k hours of D3, 500+ hours of PoE and 250 hours of Lost Ark, and I enjoy Diablo Immortal more than any of them. It really hit the mark with how simple vs complex a game need to be. I find Lost Ark and especially PoE to be overly complex. And Diablo 2 is a fun solo game but doesn't offer much end game. Diablo 3 is great, but lacks the great controls of Immortal and feels far more grindy and repeitive, with by far more boring bounties, too long rifts and it lacks dungeons and raids that Immortal have (and more raidbosses to come). The fact that Immortal also have the Shadows vs Immortal part AND actually have PvP that people play adds to it a lot.

I mean, come on, I get you hate on the P2W, but it seems you are bothered people actually like the non P2W aspects. Many Youtubers even say "Fantastic game, awful monetization".

[TheRevenantHero]

I've played many ARPGS and for quite some time. I prolly have 500+ hours of D2, 2k hours of D3, 500+ hours of PoE and 250 hours of Lost Ark, and I enjoy Diablo Immortal more than any of them. It really hit the mark with how simple vs complex a game need to be. I find Lost Ark and especially PoE to be overly complex. And Diablo 2 is a fun solo game but doesn't offer much end game. Diablo 3 is great, but lacks the great controls of Immortal and feels far more grindy and repeitive, with by far more boring bounties, too long rifts and it lacks dungeons and raids that Immortal have (and more raidbosses to come). The fact that Immortal also have the Shadows vs Immortal part AND actually have PvP that people play adds to it a lot.

I mean, come on, I get you hate on the P2W, but it seems you are bothered people actually like the non P2W aspects. Many Youtubers even say "Fantastic game, awful monetization".

You clearly haven't if you think D:I is a good game. Lie to yourself as much as you want but don't fucking lie to me. AND DID YOU REALLY JUST SAY DIABLO 2 DIDN'T OFFER MUCH ENDGAME?! Just fucking stop. You're clearly nothing but a massive fucking liar and a likely a D:I whale. And you're also likely picking and choosing YouTubers because every video I've seen has said basically everything I've said. So either stop fucking lying or shut up.

[RobertoCarlos]

They don't sell power. They don't sell either gear, or legendary gems. They sell an opportunity to get power faster than F2P. If they sold a random gem, sure, it's gambling, but random gem frim Rift is the same for F2P players. The crests you buy are not more powerful than the free ones, same chance of getting powerful gems.

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I don't know what word to use, "participate in RNG more" I guess is more fair. Gamble is such a strange word for this, as there are so many forms of gambling.

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You buy Crests, and they guarantee a random legendary gem. So does free legendary crests, they also guarantee a legendary gem. You don't buy power, you buy time, I find it quite different from one another.

Except there are more powerful gems than level 1 which is the most common drop and outside of grinding the couple legendary crests you can get for free per month the only way of getting them is by buying them. So buying power.

But yeah as you were saying.

[Battlebeard]

You clearly haven't if you think D:I is a good game. Lie to yourself as much as you want but don't fucking lie to me. AND DID YOU REALLY JUST SAY DIABLO 2 DIDN'T OFFER MUCH ENDGAME?! Just fucking stop. You're clearly nothing but a massive fucking liar and a likely a D:I whale. And you're also likely picking and choosing YouTubers because every video I've seen has said basically everything I've said. So either stop fucking lying or shut up.

I never seen anyone so tilted by someone else enjoying a game. You need to relax, and accept that I personally like Immortal far more than D2 and D3.

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Except there are more powerful gems than level 1 which is the most common drop and outside of grinding the couple legendary crests you can get for free per month the only way of getting them is by buying them. So buying power.

But yeah as you were saying.

We are gonna run in circles. You say one buy power, I say one buy time. You can slowly get crests and get the same legendary gems as buyers, or you can buy them and get them faster. But the gems you get are not more powerful. You don't get stronger by paying, you just get MORE of them. That LEAD to getting stronger, but it's technically not buying power. You could get a 5-star gem on your first and only free crest.

[RobertoCarlos]

I never seen anyone so tilted by someone else enjoying a game. You need to relax, and accept that I personally like Immortal far more than D2 and D3.

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We are gonna run in circles. You say one buy power, I say one buy time. You can slowly get crests and get the same legendary gems as buyers, or you can buy them and get them faster. But the gems you get are not more powerful. You don't get stronger by paying, you just get MORE of them. That LEAD to getting stronger, but it's technically not buying power. You could get a 5-star gem on your first and only free crest.

Your argument falls apart when they are not realistic time frames.

It would take what a year to gain enough legendary crests to do ONE 10 crest run?

Thats where the game falls apart. The scale of free to play vs the pay to win is insane where you need to grind away for years to get to the point a paying player could catch up in a week or two.

[Battlebeard]

Your argument falls apart when they are not realistic time frames.

It would take what a year to gain enough legendary crests to do ONE 10 crest run?

Thats where the game falls apart. The scale of free to play vs the pay to win is insane where you need to grind away for years to get to the point a paying player could catch up in a week or two.

Well, then you buy convinience (time) but not directly power, that was my point. It's similar, but different, as you could buy 100 crests and get only level 1 gems, hence you aren't really getting more powerful.

But what I am most bothered about is people saying the game is unplayable unless you pay. If one think the game is unplayable just because they can't reach top 5 on the leaderboards, well, then they have a very strange view on games.

[TheRevenantHero]

I never seen anyone so tilted by someone else enjoying a game. You need to relax, and accept that I personally like Immortal far more than D2 and D3.

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We are gonna run in circles. You say one buy power, I say one buy time. You can slowly get crests and get the same legendary gems as buyers, or you can buy them and get them faster. But the gems you get are not more powerful. You don't get stronger by paying, you just get MORE of them. That LEAD to getting stronger, but it's technically not buying power. You could get a 5-star gem on your first and only free crest.

I'm tilted because you're a liar with brain dead posts. Everything you've said so far has literally been misinformation.