[Megathread] Star Citizen

[banmebaby]

Its nice of you to waste the time to find old posts from him in this thread... can also see some familiar names around there, which begs the question why?

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C'mon dude, it's not that hard to use, and if I’m going around accusing people of being toxic and shit might as well back it up, am I right ; )

It poggles the mind how you guys have been going at this for years... dont you really have nothing better to do than argue in this thread?

If you really dont like the game... and according to all the posts it seems you guys dont... you probably shouldnt even be here. Whats the point even?
Dont answer me, i dont need to know... ask yourselves and think about it.

Last time i was here checking out whats going on, you the very same people reported me for flaming so the hatred for the game runs very deep i can see.
Kyanion and MrAnderson were at it in 2017 too apparently... and since banmebaby is a new account i wouldnt be surprised if you were one of the banned ones.

Wonder who else has been here for years... all i do is wait for the thread to popup on the frontpage to check what you guys are up to.
Its very interesting indeed. But i can see its of very little value to write anything here otherwise, hope you guys sort it out soon.

Be seeing ya again later.

Let’s see if I understand, you pop around this thread, flame people, get infracted for it.
Come back again, engage in a discussion that you clearly haven’t been following…
Start accusing people of just wasting time, and blame the “hate” towards the game for your infraction.

... and you wonder why people are here? It’s a free comedy show my dude, a great one at that.

[Cloverfield]

I actually compared the development of video-games, by gaming companies. I didn't need to abandon all logic and bring completely unrelated businesses and odd cases.

Are you suggesting that somehow the game development industry is exempt from incompetence or fraud (or both)? That does not make much sense though. And I am afraid the logic used in those real life exemples is quite sound, and the business practices discussed in all those are indeed related to the discussion about SC. Also, and since it was mentioned a few posts back, if you want to see a few more exemples you can take a look at KiraTV Youtube channel for exemple.

Saying that gaming companies would drag their games development on purpose (while having to keep amounting developer costs and so on) is a way to scam people is such a dumb statement.

No, what has been said is that bigger and ambitious games take time indeed, but that is not the only reason for taking a long time as you seem to believe: Incompetence or potential fraud (or both) are also a very common reason for delays and non delivery, that you have forgotten to consider. Some exemples of incompetence/fraud lasted well over a decade.

SC/SQ42 delays and and non delivery could be because they are "big and ambitious", or instead be simply the consequence of incompetence and/or fraud. Given SC/SQ42 extremely poor track record of continuous failed announcements and estimates over 10 years while keeping all the money generated due to the hype of said announcements, and the very sub par status of SC after all that time, this incompetence and potential fraud scenario has to be considered seriously I am afraid.

Anyone knows that In Game dev the faster you develop and release the faster you can cash in on the game and move to another one. Long development times are cash sinks only allowed to gaming companies with deep pockets and the real money is made AFTER release, be at release in the first months/year OR , if it's a Game as Service along the sequential years through lootboxes/cosmetics like Genshin and many mobile games do.

I do not know if you always really need to release man. Chris Roberts, his family and close friends seem to be actually becoming millionaires as we speak with backers money and that is with zero products released in 10+ years:

Remuneration to the highest paid director: £292,322 in 2020, up from £283,192

And that is just Erin Roberts in the UK. That is around US$375,000 for 2020. Now you can imagine the salaries Chris Roberts and Ortwin pay themselves, plus Sandi... And that in a company that allegedly hasn't released a single product yet and is still crowdfunding. It is just truly remarkable.

The way things are at the moment what CIG and Chris Roberts are actually selling is a vision of what SC and SQ42 can be in the future. As a vision seller and cash grabber Chris Roberts is great, but as an actual product deliverer for SC/SQ42 things are a bit more iffy. Not too unlike the examples of Theranos, Madoff, or Keely Motors.

Having reduced planets is a design decision made to improve player experience

Assuming you are capable of generating real scale planets, you can improve the player experience and reduce traverse times simply by increasing ship speeds as needed. It´s quite straight forward and there is no downside. If CIG was capable of producing real scale they would have already tried.

These are challenges that other games, such as Infinity Battlescape or Elite, have managed to solve but CIG has not. The current SC limited implementation strongly points to serious technical difficulties to increase scale and/or to handle larger velocities. Which is likely also linked to limitations in their procedural planetary tools, or a poor implementation of their floating point double precision 64b system. SC´s limited quantum travel mechanic, on rails (unlike those other games where players are free to steer at light speed magnitudes) and utterly broken physics, among other issues, further support the notion.

[bbr]

... and you wonder why people are here? It’s a free comedy show my dude, a great one at that.

This pretty much.

It's awesome to see how dedicated and toxic the fans for this game are, even after some dump thousands into a game that's not even finished yet.
Boggles the mind really.

[frn1]

I dont know much about this game, but from what i gather it has been in development for 10 years has over 500 million USD in funding and has still not been released/no release date.. and people are defending it?

topkek

[Val the Moofia Boss]

people are defending it?

People who liked space sims are starved. The only alternatives in recent years are Elite Dangerous and the X series but they are limited in scope. So Star Citizen garners a lot of attention by being the only game in town. You also have people who dumped thousands of dollars into SC and adhere to the sunk cost fallacy, being too emotionally invested to back out now.

[NatePsy]

Somebody might want to tell the guys at CI that Q3 is July, August, and September. Pretty quiet on the Roadmap Roundup front too. What a mess lol.

[banmebaby]

I dont know much about this game, but from what i gather it has been in development for 10 years has over 500 million USD in funding and has still not been released/no release date.. and people are defending it?

topkek

The issue isn't even the 10 years of development and the 500 million if you ask me.

The problem is that Chris Roberts keeps dangling a carrot in front of a very, very disgusting form of monetization scheme, “By the end of this year, backers will have everything they originally pledged for, plus a lot more.” -2015, “we are looking to 2020 to release squadron” -2018, “Squadron 42: we’re now sort of on the downhill ramp. We’re now 18 months away, looking like from when we have to be ready to release it.” – 2018, “Squadron 42 is gonna take a little bit longer than we had originally thought” – 2015

Everything is always just about the next corner, meanwhile, “No subscriptions”, “No pay to win”, “We’re not selling land.” – Tyler Nolan RSI, 2017, Modding & P.servers that probably won’t be a thing anymore, Credits!, Ships that don’t exist yet, skins for the ships that don’t exist yet...

Then when you point this sort of shit out, and you get +5 pages of the same people ignoring your arguments to repeatedly inform you that you are just a hater, you just want the game to fail, you are just crazy mad about its financial success, you are just here to derail the thread, that you! are a lowlife obsessed childish goon, spreading toxicity and negativity throughout the place…. blá blá blá, just so fucking silly.


On other news:

Star Citizen has been purchased by over 1 million players...

Today there are just over four million accounts with 1.7 million accounts of them having purchased the game

Roberts went on to say that the average number of daily players in 2022 was 50,000, with a peak of 130,000 players happening several times during the year. "But the amazing stat is that the average player who logs-in in 2022 is three hours a day," Roberts said. "Back in 2017, it was just 48 minutes…and from there it's just been increasing."

Registering for a Star Citizen RSI account is free, but players do need to purchase game packages to play the alpha--the cheapest being $45.

As of September 2022, Cloud Imperium Games raised over $500 million

... and it's on pair with the current average of players playing Cyberpunk on Steam alone, a 2 year old single player game, overall a little ahead of titles like Terraria & Unturned Now that's a little more accurate than "dah twitch viewers!" every time a content update comes out...

[Majestic12]

Star Citizen has been purchased by over 1 million players...

Good post. One thing I'd like to add with this is that all of these customers, including myself with my naked account, are people that essentially have paid for the game. They've cashed in on us already. The development CIG is doing is pretty much what we're "owed". And with the current moneymaking scheme they've got going on, they've zero financial incentive to ever release the game. Especially since back in the day they were touting that ship sales would stop once the game is released. Sure you might buy a starter package or two, but the biggest meat is what brings in the cash. Before I refunded my main account I had an Orion and Super Hornet - it's things like this that bring in cash. And LTI upgrades.

Until backers put their feet to the fire and funding dries up, CIG will profit more by just keeping the game in this endless, boring loop and never release the game. I'm pretty sure if I told the folks here back in 2015 that we wouldn't have a game in 2022, they'd have laughed at me. Yet here we are.

[Cloverfield]

... and it's on pair with the current average of players playing Cyberpunk on Steam alone...

Not sure if I understood you correctly but the figure given by Chris Roberts was average daily players, while the Steam figures are given for hourly averages. Given the 50K daily and the alleged 3 hour average session the equivalent hourly concurrent average for Star Citizen would be around 6,000 (for reference Cyperpunk average hourly concurrency in September was over 40,000 on Steam alone). And that 6,000 number is based on CIG's own info, which has a vested interest (not a 3rd party like Steam) and therefore more than likely "optimistic" to start with.

Also, 1.7 million accounts having purchased the game includes individuals that have multiple purchase game accounts, and which are likely non negligible at all. Hence the actual number of real individual players is probably much less than that 1.7 mill.

[banmebaby]

Chris Roberts was average daily players, while the Steam figures are given for hourly averages.

Oh shit lol, I totally didn't take that into account.

Until backers put their feet to the fire and funding dries up, CIG will profit more by just keeping the game in this endless, boring loop and never release the game.

This won't happen any time soon.

1.7 million accounts, raised over $500 million.

Then take stuff like AMD promotions, refunds and that most of them didn't go much further than the minimum base entry, into consideration.

[Ripster42]

I'm pretty sure if I told the folks here back in 2015 that we wouldn't have a game in 2022, they'd have laughed at me.

You don't have to be just pretty sure. You can look at posts in this thread from 2015. You'd have been insulted by the same people who will likely be around to insult you within a day or so.

[Cloverfield]

Paying dividends before there's even a product launch is just incredibly fucked up. It's essentially saying "Our business plan is not to release a game, but to swindle these marks for the foreseeable future."

You know, there is a term for this. It is on the tip of my tongue. Starts with a P and ends in an I.

Unless the game has already released (even if in early access), in which case this is it folks. It may improve going forward but zero guarantees. And of course dividends etc would be all legit.

Now, if this is it, which score from 1 (worst) to 10 (best) would you rate SC with?

[XDurionX]

What i find very irritating is that somehow having a Alpha Tag on your Product makes you immune from Criticism. The idea that there is some Magic "1.0" release for SC PU is not going to happen. To me the whole Project seems to be closer to something like the DayZ Mod then lets say WoW or SWTOR. Which i guess CIG wants to build.
The whole Idea that in some way in the Future were all playing on single Server is not a pipe dream it is utter nonsense. If you want to Build an MMO/MMORPG with a FPS Engine you either go with Channels (something that SC had for years now [Every "server/shard" is a channel]) or you build your own Back End which some folks say you might as well build your own Front End (the work needed to properly communicate with a FPS Client [Front End] might be the same amount of work make your own). But quickly having some on the Screen was worth more (selling ships) then planning anything.
Lets not even go to the Place where CIG tells the Community that the Ships they buy are needed for SQ42. Having your Cake and eating it it is something only CIG can do.

The only way to stop this scheme is by legal action. SC will then "release" as an unfinished product with a metascore of 4X, and it will die.

No way this will ever release as a good game. It's borked beyond repair.

[Gorsameth]

Legally SC is already released as early access.

They had to do that to stop EU citizens from getting refunds.

[Majestic12]

You don't have to be just pretty sure. You can look at posts in this thread from 2015. You'd have been insulted by the same people who will likely be around to insult you within a day or so.

Man, talking about 2015 takes me back. I went way back in the thread for the lolz:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post45311359

2016/2017 was the good old "GTA 5" era, where Star Citizen supporters just couldn't stop talking and comparing SC to GTA 5.

Some of the folks you mention made their accounts specifically to shill for this game. Over the years I've argued pretty much every topic there is... and SQ42 still isn't out and we're about to enter 2023.

[banmebaby]

The only way to stop this scheme is by legal action.

There is no legal action you can take against them, you pretty much agree that owe you fucking nothing.

[ldev]

Man, talking about 2015 takes me back. I went way back in the thread for the lolz:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post45311359

2016/2017 was the good old "GTA 5" era, where Star Citizen supporters just couldn't stop talking and comparing SC to GTA 5.

Some of the folks you mention made their accounts specifically to shill for this game. Over the years I've argued pretty much every topic there is... and SQ42 still isn't out and we're about to enter 2023.

Meanwhile GTA V launched on PS3/x360, next gen and then next gen again, and on PC too. GTA V is also much much bigger in existing scope.

[Cloverfield]

Legally SC is already released as early access.

They had to do that to stop EU citizens from getting refunds.

That would make sense, except there is zero information or statement from CIG in their website or point of sale about SC being already released (in early access or otherwise) at all. So far, if you read CIG own portal info, it is all supposed to still be crowdfunded and in development.


- - - Updated - - -

The only way to stop this scheme is by legal action.

Not much you can legally argue against SC if it is already released (in early access or otherwise) though. At most you could argue misrepresentation, as no one except them seem to be aware it may have already been released.

[XDurionX]

- - - Updated - - -



Not much you can legally argue against SC if it is already released (in early access or otherwise) though. At most you could argue misrepresentation, as no one except them seem to be aware it may have already been released.

I wouldn't rely on this too heavily, though. This game is hanging on the thread of people's hopes to get what they were promised _eventually_. Once they get the confirmation that they won't CIG will be sued into oblivion. The only question here is how much longer it takes for even the most devoted fans to realize this.

[Kyanion]

Man, talking about 2015 takes me back. I went way back in the thread for the lolz:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post45311359

2016/2017 was the good old "GTA 5" era, where Star Citizen supporters just couldn't stop talking and comparing SC to GTA 5.

Some of the folks you mention made their accounts specifically to shill for this game. Over the years I've argued pretty much every topic there is... and SQ42 still isn't out and we're about to enter 2023.

Haha damn that is funny to look back at posts from 2017, just a short bit after that post you linked you have a gem like this one from you know who.

"when he did mention dates it was more of what he hopes things were going, thats why he doesnt say dates anymore, the game is in year 5 of development and looks on track for a 6-7 year release." Nice post from 5 and a half years ago.