Hey, several of us ARE trying to make it about speculation and scenarios on how it could be future content. Just specific people keep making it about themselves as always and others have to quote and post rebuttal sentence by sentence for pages on end. . . .
People could ignore the latter and try and offer further opinions on the former.
isn’t the planet only two continents and the other is the oger empire we never got But ignoring that.
Honestly they should make it just time stuff being the cause and then both sides blame the other and go to extremes.
They even could do a light crusade after the mega dungeon next patch and make it so Yrel her self is unsure in invading Azeroth as it has none of the signs of dying like dreanor but Xera is still pushing super hard for the crusade and you have light bound orcs and goats who go with it meaning they could still salvage Yrel and bring her into the main universe after we smash Xera and fight a pimping light forged garrosh.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
Oh definitely, and I applaud that, but it barely gets through the noise of the back-and-forthers. Telling people to ignore those kind of things hasn't historically worked either because the back and forth is usually between only a few people who want to always get the last word in. But with the new story unlock(s) this week we should at least have a bit of distraction sometime tomorrow.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
I honestly doubt Blizzard is going to do that. But if Blizzard does do that, I think they'll most likely do just one singular spec, two at worst. Not to mention many classes' lore and theme doesn't really fit for a "support" spec, like mages, warriors, DHs, rogues, monks, etc.
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Or, in other words, like I've seen repeatedly saying so far: we're missing a lot of context here.
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Protecting the planet from a group of people who seem to not really care about what they are doing to said planet is hardly an "evil thing". At worst, it's 'self-defense'.
Of which we have zero evidence of that happening. A claim is not evidence. A claim needs evidence.Again, you don't need the other side of the story if the other side is forcefully converting every other life form on the planet (which isn't even their planet).
Because we don't have the full context. She literally claims that the orcs' doing is killing the planet. If that claim is correct, letting them continue doing what they're doing would be counter-productive to not only the draenei's safety, but to the safety of everyone in Draenor.Why do you need context when Yrel literally says "convert or die" in the scenario?
Because, as I said I would, I wrote what Yrel said to the player and the Mag'har. I never said I would transcribe the entire conversation.Why are you only showing half the dialogue?
That is completely not the same thing. It's apples and oranges. Thrall did not rally the Iron Horde to not only try to genocide the draenei, but also invade Azeroth to kill or conquer everything in their path. Thrall's way of life did not cause suffering to the land and threaten the well-being of the planet.So let's move this exact conversation over to Azeroth, what if that were Thrall conversating with Yrel. Would you really sit here and say that Thrall is the bad guy here when Yrel would be attempting to completely eradicate Orcish culture and people from Azeroth?
Yrel didn't start her crusade because Draenor was dying. She did it because the Naaru started pumping voices into her head, and told her she needed to create an army to stop the void. The goal isn't to save the world, the goal is to wipe out everything else except the light.
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From the horse's mouth;
We also have the Ogre quest at the beginning of the campaign. The Ogres were also hiding from the Lightbound but eventually join them because they see no other alternative.Yrel: "I have come to offer you one last chance to embrace the Light."
Anyway, this is a pointless conversation because you absolutely refuse to listen to evidence that completely contradicts your point.
A crusade that leads to your conversion, brainwashing, or death alongside the obliteration of your culture definitely fits the definition of genocide. The brainwashing is pretty much becoming a slave. No different than N'Zoth or Yogg'Soron wiping away your brain and forcing you to serve them.
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Know your lore.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/YrelAfter Archimonde's fall, the orcs and draenei worked together to drive the Burning Legion from Draenor. The two peoples then lived in peace alongside each other for years. During this time, more naaru arrived on Draenor and, without demons to fight, the draenei became fixated upon the Light. At some point, Draenor began to deteriorate for unknown reasons. The Lightbound believed that the Mag'har orcs were choking the life from Draenor and dooming the land to desiccation, and blamed the Mag'har for the once-fertile land becoming lifeless dust,[12] while Grommash Hellscream believed that it was the Light that had doomed the planet. Having received visions from the Light Mother, the High Exarch knew that the Army of the Light would bring order to countless worlds in the Great Dark Beyond. But first, the Mag'har needed to be taught to trust the naaru as well, for they brought peace and order. The naaru compelled the draenei to spread their influence among the orcs.
The Lightbound sent sermons, explaining they wished for all the people of Draenor to be unified in purpose. Those resisting the Light were seen as an infection that prevented "Draenor's heart from being whole".[13] A few orcs converted to the Light willingly, but others had the Light forced upon them. Some orcs even sided with the draenei against their own kin, including Grommash's own son.[14] War followed, until the two sides found themselves in a stalemate in Gorgrond, where the Lightbound refused to attack Hellsreach Citadel.[12] Yrel confronted Grommash, referring to him as an old friend and attempting to get him to stand down. Grommash held her off while a group of Mag'har led by Overlord Geya'rah, daughter of Draka and the deceased Durotan, fled to Azeroth. The outcome of her fight with Grommash is unknown.[15]
The crusade to fight the void never got off the ground so that doesn’t really matter, only why she’s fighting the rocs and why she would be fighting on Azeroth would matter.
She’s fighting the orcs because she thinks they are destroying the planet and she wants to “heal the heart of it” and if she came to Azeroth that wouldn’t be a thing which would give her a reason to doubt and with people like Velan who have also seen visions of fighting the void without forcefully converting people and Turyalon who already knows following the Narru isn’t every thing it would be perfect priming for her to falter and then come over to our side and we even have a stand in endnboss with light forged Garrosh and Xera as a mirror to his SoO fight.
Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2023-05-22 at 05:40 PM.
All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.
That is not evidence that the draenei are "forcefully converting". This is literally the orcs' last stand where they prefer to fight to the end of their lives instead of stopping what they're doing that is allegedly killing the planet.
Again, the state of the mag'har's area around them supports the draenei's claim that what they're doing is killing the planet, considering it's all barren and looks... gloomy.
Which doesn't mean the draenei are "forcefully converting" others. And since you spoke of the ogres, why don't we talk about the mag'har's own diplomatic skills being used on the ogres?We also have the Ogre quest at the beginning of the campaign. The Ogres were also hiding from the Lightbound but eventually join them because they see no other alternative.
"Join me or die". It really sounds like the words of someone who is truly being "oppressed" and is against "forceful conversions", doesn't it?
I will see the evidence when you actually provide some.Anyway, this is a pointless conversation because you absolutely refuse to listen to evidence that completely contradicts your point.
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I'm amused that your quote is full of annotations and references, and yet the part you bolded on the first paragraph has no reference, and I can't think of anywhere where that supposed part of the lore was said.
Also, the second bolded part literally is what we were talking about, about having no context. We only have the orcs' clam that some were forcefully converted.
AU Draenor is just the opposite of MU, in MU Draenor the Orcs using Fel slaughtered the Draenei, and in AU Draenor is the Draenei using Light that slaughtered the Orcs.
I think it's a good approach. Yrel FTW! I can't wait to see her again!
Soooo.... what are we expecting from the Blues quests this week?
Formerly known as Arafal
Well I expect to see Blue dragon NPCs. So I expect Azuregos, Halegosa (last known Consort of Malygos) and Tyrigosa (Kalec's original fiance) to show up, maybe Jorad to make an appearance. He did call them all and some of them probably were further away.
Now Tyri MIGHT bring some Nether dragons with her. Then between Azuregos and Haleh we should be able to find out wtf Vakthros is given they are both ancient.
Good question, actually. I am sure that is going to be about them coming together again, and I suppose that they would have to face a challenging situation that makes them come together. Hopefully they manage to throw there something about the relation between Malygos and Neltarion. I would love to see Malygos again, in any form, although it is unlikely. I guess that if that was the case we would already have a datamined model.
I would like that an Incarnate mess with them, kill someone, something dramatic. We will see.
Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.
Well I expect to see Blue dragon NPCs. So I expect Azuregos, Halegosa (last known Consort of Malygos? or is she something else I think it got retconned) and Tyrigosa (Kalec's original fiance) to show up, maybe Jorad to make an appearance. He did call them all and some of them probably were further away.
Now Tyri MIGHT bring some Nether dragons with her.
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If they bring Malygos' visage again, I hope someone bothers to use a better looking armor set for him.
I'd go for something like this: https://www.wowhead.com/dressing-roo...C808Ikl8MKS87R
Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-05-22 at 07:34 PM.