Former Nazi SS guard fights deportation.

[Priestiality]

Awesome post, it was actually quite moving


He would only have added himself to the list of dead people. You can't blame anyone for putting his own life in front of other's life, nobody is called to be a hero.
In his boots I would have done exactly what he did, maybe trying to see if I could escape to some foreign nation without being caught in the mean time.

Heroes die. That's how they become heroes.

[Hyve]

20 pages, wow

more than this guy i want the ones who made a living out of wars to be held responsible, and i want a worldwide jursidiction against warcrimes that everyone has to obey to

if this old man actually did anything that was against human rights he deserves whatever sentence is appropriate, but more than this man we should hunt down the ones that made money out of wars, that killed without pushing a button or pulling a trigger, regardless of position held or what country they´re from and at least try to learn something out of history

there are multiple posts in this thread representing how everyone 70 years ago obviously had to know everything their government did back then, but 60 years later countries are still being "tricked" into going to war "for a good reason of course"

we´ve learned nothing, and that is just awefull and depressing

So, you're going to hunt down the Americans who sold Weapons, Tanks & Food to the British, and prosecute them for profiting from War? You're making it seem like it was just the Nazi's that did horrific things in World War 2.

[Deleted]

Stupid woman should have stayed in the kitchen and by the way those concentration camps made people concentrate better.

Infracted: Please do not make sexist or inappropriate comments.

[capitano666]

Heroes die. That's how they become heroes.

Exactly, he didn't want to die and neither would I in that situation.
Basically he's facing punishment because he didn't wanted to be a hero (or rather: "an hero" )? Pretty stupid charge imho.

[Deleted]

They were still dropped on military hubs; they were gravity-guided bombs, and they were released directly over military hubs. This is a documented fact for both Nagasaki and Hiroshima. I'm not saying it was justified, I'm stating that it's not analogous to a Nazi facilitating the murder of innocent people.

Are you implying, even for a single moment, that a 17-22 years old guy working in a tower in a camp, is even vaguely and remotely comparable in any way to the murderous, brutal, inhumane acts against a nation AND the world that were the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan in 1945?
It's probably on your "liberation" list as well isn't it?

[Arunu]

Exactly, he didn't wanted to die and neither would I in that situation.
Basically he's facing punishment because he didn't wanted to be a hero (or rather: "an hero" )? Pretty stupid charge imho.

indeed, not to mention that he probably wouldn't even be noted as a hero if he did anyway.
He would have just been some guard who got shot for not complying.

heroic acts are put forth by those that witness them, pretty sure he would just have been executed and that's that.

[Deleted]

hang the bastard...no excuses

[Mesovr]

Camp guards did not just guard the camp, they shot those who ventured too near to the perimeter of the camp, they aided and abetted the slaughter that went on within (by virtue of protecting the processes of the camp), and he essentially facilitated the murder of innocent people. If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences.

---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 05:21 AM ----------



Hitler never "killed anyone" either, and neither did Stalin. This guy FACILITATED and was an ACCESSORY to the massacre and torture of people.

You would have been branded a traitor and killed on sight. Betraying your contry in times of war is the most cowardly thing a person can do.

[Mayhem]

So, you're going to hunt down the Americans who sold Weapons, Tanks & Food to the British, and prosecute them for profiting from War? You're making it seem like it was just the Nazi's that did horrific things in World War 2.

what in my post states that only the nazis did horrific things? i even wrote wars not ww2 or any specific war
but as english isn´t my first language i appologise for any errors i propably made

[kivipää]

Justice Department lawyer Susan Siegal questioned whether Geiser's service as a camp guard was truly involuntary. She said he could have requested a transfer back to the Russian front, where he was initially serving, or that he could have simply walked away from service or defied immoral orders. She said the Nuremberg trials after World War II and military code established the precedent that following immoral orders is not an adequate defense.

Let's ignore the fact that hounding an 88-year old that is hospitalized is just a waste of resources no matter his crimes. This Susan Siegal seems to have no idea of what she's talknig about. "could have requested a transfer back to eastern front"? That was feared by the german troops as a slow death penalty. Walking away from service or defying service would have earned him exactly that transfer, if not just a bullet to the head. This lawyer seems to be completely disconnected from the reality suggesting any of these as option. "walking away from service" in the SS during WW2? That's going to end well for you.

[Deleted]

All must answer of their crimes

A crime is a form of behaviour that is considered socially unacceptable.

But the boundaries of socially acceptable behaviour are very different in war compared to peacetime.

If you insist on applying your modern peacetime-norms to wartime behaviour, we should imprison half the Allied soldiers too.

---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 01:35 PM ----------

This Susan Siegal seems to have no idea of what she's talknig about. "could have requested a transfer back to eastern front"? That was feared by the german troops as a slow death penalty.

When I read stuff like this, I wish there was still an Eastern Front we could send people like Susan Siegal to. That would decisively end the discussion: She could prove her point by going and getting herself killed, or, much more likely, cede it by refusing to go.

[zpiff]

Walking away form ss servises. or disobaying. was a death sentens.. the germans shot and hong around 100.000 of there own soilders.. during the war..

[araine]

Camp guards did not just guard the camp, they shot those who ventured too near to the perimeter of the camp, they aided and abetted the slaughter that went on within (by virtue of protecting the processes of the camp), and he essentially facilitated the murder of innocent people. If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences.

---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 05:21 AM ----------



Hitler never "killed anyone" either, and neither did Stalin. This guy FACILITATED and was an ACCESSORY to the massacre and torture of people.

Just following orders as the excuse used when USA have been committing warcrimes in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think you know the punishment if he failed to obey orders he would be executed on the spot.

[Deleted]

I have to say. Being a lawyer and having to say stuff like this to an 88 years old man really makes me wonder how the fuck can she sleep at night.

[Magemaer]

He wasn't a hero. A hero would stand up and get shot.
That said, he is no criminal. He didn't do anything wrong. Soldiers obey orders.

He's being shamefully punished for not sacrificing his life for idealism, something that most human beings wouldn't do.

[araine]

A crime is a form of behaviour that is considered socially unacceptable.

But the boundaries of socially acceptable behaviour are very different in war compared to peacetime.

If you insist on applying your modern peacetime-norms to wartime behaviour, we should imprison half the Allied soldiers too.

---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 01:35 PM ----------


When I read stuff like this, I wish there was still an Eastern Front we could send people like Susan Siegal to. That would decisively end the discussion: She could prove her point by going and getting herself killed, or, much more likely, cede it by refusing to go.

Going back to WWII we have several cases of gruesome war crimes committed by the allied forces as well. dont recall them getting any time for those crimes

Dachau massacre April 29th 1945
Biscari massacre f 1943 ( here we at least got 1 person convicted)

But the talk of they did this or that well all i say is make sure we dont forget the war criminals on the Allied side as well

[Krothar]

Ultimately this man was just doing his job. Even if he was considered "One of the bad guys" he was serving his country. By the time the extent of Hitlers insanity came to light (Which wasn't straight away) far too many people were too invested (Families involved, etc) to simply say "Thanks, but I don't want to Hitler." It didn't work like that. And all of this talk about "being a hero and dying so he didn't have to kill anyone" is just daft. It's easy to say "Be a hero", but its much, much harder to actually do it. If this man was still serving as a Nazi, killing people, I'd say deport him and let him be punished, but I personally feel he should just be allowed to live what few years he had left to himself.

[Priestiality]

Let's ignore the fact that hounding an 88-year old that is hospitalized is just a waste of resources no matter his crimes. This Susan Siegal seems to have no idea of what she's talknig about. "could have requested a transfer back to eastern front"? That was feared by the german troops as a slow death penalty. Walking away from service or defying service would have earned him exactly that transfer, if not just a bullet to the head. This lawyer seems to be completely disconnected from the reality suggesting any of these as option. "walking away from service" in the SS during WW2? That's going to end well for you.

Jewish surname... It all makes sense now...

[Magemaer]

I have to say. Being a lawyer and having to say stuff like this to an 88 years old man really makes me wonder how the fuck can she sleep at night.

Some lawyers have no decency. They think of themselves as some kind of deities to judge, accuse and demoralize regular folks like this.

[Syce]

Would you have?

Or would you have simply gone along with the regime for fear of your own life?

I think most people say they'd liberate the camp, but most would simply try to survive. Being a nazi is startlingly not a black and white concept, especially for conscripts.

you got that right. look at the German Generals even, they feared for their life so they did what hitler wanted them to do even though they knew it would fail. If they had their way and ran their armies the way they intended i hate to say it but you could of possibly seen the world under the nazi regime. Germany had Arguably the best generals in the world.