Yes
No
Anybody who hast posted or is considering to post in this thread should read this:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/462...support-groups
Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
Trolling should be.
That is really interesting. I don't know that it's possible to bully Ghostcrawler. If anything, I think GC has done his own share of bullying, especially when he has the opportunity to feel intellectually superior. So you'll have to excuse me if I don't feel sorry for him. However, I do agree that in a lot of cases the abuse of video game developers goes much too far. Vesseblah, I think you're a supporter of Ghostcrawler and a more challenging version of WoW? It's important to remember that it was fan "bullying" that caused the successful Wrath model to be abandoned.
That's because you've dehumanized him. To you, GC is a force of nature, and his every action is an act of malice perpetrated against the class of player that fails to benefit from it. To people who think like you the over-tuned difficulty in Cataclysm wasn't a miscalculation; it was a thwarted attempt to exclude non-raiders from the game. The changes to PvP weren't intended to balance the playing field; they were intended to punish PvPers for daring to enjoy PvP. Please cite specific instances where you felt GC was the bully. I have yet to see a quote where he deliberately went out of his way to insult anyone.
Although I agree strongly that GC gets lots of harassment -- and I've been trying not to scapegoat him, these days, for that reason -- he's volleyed some pretty barbed insults at players who pointed out inconsistencies in design policy. The most notorious example is referenced on this page: His post defending Cataclysm dungeon difficulty (this was roughly when I left Cata, i.e. Jan 2011). It was a thinly veiled "learn to play" dismissal at a player who said LFG was too hard -- and a pretty sad one, considering Cata dungeons were tuned so poorly in 4.0 that a single idiot could wreck them with 4 good players compensating.
(edit) To be clear, I'm not trying to justify the harassment he gets. I am trying to say that no one should claim he's totally innocent of insulting and/or bad behavior.
Last edited by Vulcanasm; 2013-08-16 at 09:35 PM.
The plural of anecdote is not "data". It's "Bayesian inference".
Half of this thread is nothing but bullying, and the posts demanding for him to be fired are among the nicer ones...
I think the game balance is better than in any previous expansions, talking from the point of view of somebody whose gametime is spent 80% in heroic mode 25man raids. Sure it could be better, but it's gone in the right direction so I think as a guy who's in charge of game balance GC has done good job overall.
For me the challenge level is just about right in MoP raids, finishing the tier about month before next one comes out. Not too long downtime before next one, and not impossible either. But then again raid design or the overall game difficulty is not something GC is in charge of, only in advisory position along with other team leads.
GC and various other blue posters have said multiple times they went deliberately for harder PvE content in cata because people whined about easy WLK instances on various forums. And afterwards during MoP beta they also said the difficulty was a big mistake that will not be repeated.
Last edited by vesseblah; 2013-08-16 at 09:38 PM.
Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
Trolling should be.
It most certainly did not and my hope is that the developers come to this conclusion as well. I remember towards the end of cataclysm just before mists came out their was a podcast interview with ghostcrawler where he basically spent the entire interview trash talking cataclysm and maintaining that "they got it" now and mists was the result of them "getting it". Mists is a COLOSSAL failure.
I might be going ham on GC and forgetting his humanity. You're right. I feel kinda bad if I imagine him reading this and having hurt feelings. However, I just don't see GC--with the hubris he's displayed--being a person who would be particularly upset about negative feedback. He's even said himself that he laughs at the haters. He might be lying?
I don't feel Cata tuning was a personal attack on me (and I haven't mentioned PVP). I've said I feel the game could have gone in a different direction and continued to grow--or at least not dropped like a lead weight--had the right decisions been made. Cata tuning was in direct opposition to what made Wrath successful, which is why it still comes up in discussions like this. It stands out as the turning point for the game. Cata sold amazingly well off the back of Wrath, but then as players hit 85 they were just dumbfounded at entry level endgame. Kind of how fresh 90s felt about convoluted rep gating.
Thread: 683484
I agree it's better to ask questions of everybody involved in setting the direction of the game, not just GC.
The problem isn't the Systems, it's the entire direction of the game, including the lore.
I would love to know how many people who voted "no" has someone paying their subscription for them and how many that voted "yes" pays for their own subscription.
Overall there have been great ideas in the last few expansions and there have been a lot of disappointment. I don't know what the right answer is but I miss a certain maturity, intelligence and sense of community that was the atmosphere of vanilla. The current content appeals to the instant gratification crowd. I don't think there's longevity in that direction.
I think changes are going to happen and GC will be a part of that change.
so... your idea of fixing this problem is to fire one of the guys who has had a minimal effort in the changes throughout WoW?
i hope the majority of you realize that the sub loss has nothing to even do with the balance of the game in terms of class/races.
Most people unsub because they no longer have the time/money to play. This is actually how it has always been, fun fact.
The difference between NOW and BEFORE (Vanilla/TBC/WoTLK) was that there was a constant INFLUX of players, as time moved forward this influx deteriorated because of various reasons involving age of the product, competing products, differentiating products. Video gaming has largely moved away from RPGs and into FPS gaming and then into MOBA gaming.
Saying that WoW is dead because of the design team is the most halfwitted thing I have ever read. The majority of the players couldn't understand class balance if it shot them in the face with a fucking cannon. Most idiots simply look at "nerfs? OMG MY CLASS SUCKS NOW." The majority of players don't even fucking do dungeons or heroics or even raids. They just level up, then unsub. That's how it's ALWAYS been.
i'd honestly like to meet the various people who unsub due to class balance and compare them to the people who just generally lost interest in the game.
just returned to assure everyone that I still believe GC is a retard with a big paycheck, sack the fucker already...
Infracted
Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-08-22 at 06:29 PM.
If Wow continues to decline, Activision BLizzard will start scapegoating people, especially if the next expansion does poorly.
How many heads will roll before his, I don't know.
I don't like Ghostcrawler, but I don't play any more, so not that relevant.
What on earth are you talking about? You do realize those 12 million subscribers weren't all the same people right? In fact Blizzard has stated more than once that there are at minimum at least 20 million people who have played Wow at one point or another. Wow has had substantial subscriber churn for its entire run and yes that includes the sacred and holy TBC that can do no wrong. Wow was the first and only mmo so far to actually hit market saturation and it was clear as day it wasn't going to be sustainable. Wrath launched with 11.5 million subscribers and stagnated for more than 2 years and only hit 12 million because of Wrath's launch in China shortly before Cata was released in NA/EU regions. The only reason subscriptions kept rising or at least stayed somewhat stable is because there were more people coming to the game than leaving it. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. It doesn't mean TBC was the holy grail of gaming any more than Wrath was. Both expansions saw many many many many different people coming and going despite both expansions being polar opposites of each other.
There is absolutely nothing Blizzard could have done to prevent subscriber loss. They can't make people stay and they certainly can't get more customers because those are limited by the fact mmo gaming is a very niche market. It isn't like they are Mcdonalds and can post up a new commercial and create new customers. It just doesn't work that way. Anyone who was going to play Wow has played Wow. The game is old, the market has changed and more importantly the players have changed.
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He controls NOTHING. He reports directly to Chilten and Morhaime who are his superiors. Nothing gets done in Wow without their go ahead.
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Oh I think we all get what people are saying in these forums and in this thread specifically. That doesn't change the fact most of them are some of the most uneducated, spiteful, hateful whiny condescending jackasses I have ever seen on the internet in my entire 20 years I have been online. No matter how much bile and vitriol you people spew it doesn't change the fact that GC can only do what the GAME DIRECTOR tells him to do. You do know what a game director is don't you? GC's boss. Really not a hard concept to grasp.
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That is all well and good except for the fact these forums and the official forums have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that many players quit for a huge variety of reasons, many of them contradicting each other. There is no clear cut consensus on what is "wrong" with the game nor is there a consensus on how to "fix" the game. People need to just accept they aren't going to get away with pinning their pet issues on a single Blizzard employee without being called out for the ignorant blowhards they are.
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Well good thing there are several lead designers already. Ghostcrawler is simply the lead systems designer with other employees heading up other aspects of the game.
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Again good thing GC is lead systems designer. He has nothing to do with developing raids. Good job in spotlighting how ignorant this player base is though. I don't think anyone who can't comprehend what his actual job is should even attempt discussing whether he is doing a good job or not.
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Stating what GC's actual position is and what his actual responsibilities are isn't fanboyism. It is reality. Get over yourself. Wow is wildly successful even despite heavy subscription losses and has proven to shareholders it is sustainable long into the future. No one is going to get fired over sub losses. Sorry.
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So why is all the hate and vitriol directed at Ghostcrawler? And don't even try claiming it is because he is the "face" of Blizzard and Wow because his superiors Chilten and Morhaime are just as well known as he is if not more so and they are actually far more responsible for the direction of the game than any lead designer. The simple fact of the matter is most of the people who bitch and whine about this game have no god damn idea what they are talking about and just attack any employee they see regardless of what their job function is in relation to whatever their complaint is.
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I know the haters can't wait for the day Blizzard falls to its knees in financial ruin for daring slight those who worship TBC as a religion but that day won't be coming anytime soon. Wow is going to be around for at least another decade if not longer.
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Sorry stating reality doesn't make anyone an apologist anymore than it makes them fanboys. Get the fuck over yourself.
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Blizzard is hiring. Why don't you apply and show them how its done? Sadly most of you armchair developers probably aren't even qualified to be janitors for Blizzard much less develop games for them. I don't have a problem with those who disagree with GC but to claim he doesn't understand the game or any aspect of classes is incredibly arrogant to say and simply untrue.
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It absolutely is fair. Complaints on these forums and the official forums are constantly contradicting each other and have been ever since the day Wow went live. There is just no such thing as a consensus on what should be changed in this game and trying to invoke a majority just shows how weakly some people believe in their own opinions. If players can't let their opinions stand on their own merits why should anyone at Blizzard take them seriously?
"Oh I think we all get what people are saying in these forums and in this thread specifically. That doesn't change the fact most of them are some of the most uneducated, spiteful, hateful whiny condescending jackasses I have ever seen on the internet in my entire 20 years I have been online."
And despite the hatred that so many here direct at GC, his approval rating, at this time, is more than 3-1 in favor. In the US, no politician of either political party has anywhere NEAR those kinds of numbers. This poll has spoken: Good job Ghostcrawler
His comments were fine. He is a developer and it isn't his job to hold your hand and pander to you. When he posts in forums or on Twitter he is doing it for the purpose of gathering feedback and sometimes that process involves shutting down idiotic lines of thought. In fact most of the time when people accuse GC of being "arrogant" and "condescending" it is because they can't comprehend the fact that some of his questions and comments are phrased in such a way to get very specific targeted feedback and rather than provide that they fly off the handle and start carrying on like a spoiled brat. It is disgusting.
No he isn't going to lose his position. What a stupid thread. MMO-C forums are so desperate for negativity these days.