Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Thorsson7]

and what makes you think returning to how the game used to be will return all those lost subs?

you're making a huge assumption that all those people left solely because the game changed.

Oh they won't come back. People left when the world they spent 3 years in was ruined by Cata. When the Barrens became North/South.

The game was too badly damaged to ever make a comeback.

[urasim]

Flight added to Azeroth killed the population off.

No it didn't. There was more complaints from noobs that couldn't do heroic five mans than anything about flight.

Also, what are the fundimentals of WoW? Grinding for days getting mats so you can raid? Grinding for days for resist gear? Grinding for weeks to get high warlord? Grinding for months in raids for the gear that you wanted, only to have the boss drop two pieces of loot to be giving out to forty people? How about the hours of traveling which was just another huge time sink? Or do you mean WPvP? Yeah, battle grounds killed that not flight. WPvP was dead LONG before burning crusade came out. Arenas put the final nail in that coffin.

[Sjoa]

I also find reading comprehension and understanding of context to be good indicators of a persons "mental age". Your original post, which James Bond was responding to, was basically one big personal attack calling anyone who likes flying demanding crybabies. Perhaps a few moments of self reflection would help you see the irony of your response.

I could have worded my post a bit better, I agree. The first few words were written in a irrational manner and I apologize, like i said I didn't want my post to focus on name calling.


EDIT: Quick and serious question. Are they removing flying in Azeroth as well? Quoting Kaiarra:

I'm quite happy for them to remove flying in SW if they like, as I hate the place and try to go there as little as possible; needing to AFK on a FP to get ZA/Kara did not make TBC awesome.

If they are actually removing flying in Azeroth this is something that has flew by me without noticing. If this is the case then I will have to reconsider, of course.

Can I please get some confirmation on this?

[Sjoa]

Maybe you should learn what the Latin expression you use mean and stop talking about personal attacks before you place yourself in further hypocritical positions.

Read the post above yours

[Thorsson7]

No it didn't. There was more complaints from noobs that couldn't do heroic five mans than anything about flight.

Also, what are the fundimentals of WoW? Grinding for days getting mats so you can raid? Grinding for days for resist gear? Grinding for weeks to get high warlord? Grinding for months in raids for the gear that you wanted, only to have the boss drop two pieces of loot to be giving out to forty people? How about the hours of traveling which was just another huge time sink? Or do you mean WPvP? Yeah, battle grounds killed that not flight. WPvP was dead LONG before burning crusade came out. Arenas put the final nail in that coffin.

Vanilla was too much of a timesink

TBC got it 90% right

WotLK was a great balance between being able to be pretty well geared without having to invest too much time, but the people who were really serious far surpassed them and had to have proper raiding guilds/arena teams to be top 1%.

Cata wasn't bad timesink wise, but the world being ruined, talents + classes being overhauled ruined it.

MoP is just an auto-queue, auto-loot, auto-win easy fest. I got capped and bought FULL Tyrannical after quitting for 9 months just by using the catchup and winning at low MMR.

Wtf man, I shouldn't be able to get the same gear as people who were playing since the beginning of the season.

[Thorsson7]

No no no no no no nooooo, this is listening time. Mouth shut, ears open. Don't tell me what to read, I've read all I had to to understand. The thief always apologizes for getting caught.

Are you 9?

[Sjoa]

No no no no no no nooooo, this is listening time. Mouth shut, ears open. Don't tell me what to read, I've read all I had to to understand. The thief always apologizes for getting caught.

Are you like that in real life as well? Only listen to what you want to, and ignore what you don't want to know/acknowledge?

[Sjoa]

That was far from a personal attack, mate...

[Thorsson7]

The point of the new conquest system is to allow everyone to catch up fast so we can all be on equal footing. BC was terrible for example, it was so hard to catch up to other players, which only created a discrepancy of gear, not skill. The people who have been playing since the start of the season can still distinguish themselves with 2200+ rating gear transmogs, but everyone has a chance to catch up fast and make fights fair. I can see why you consider it a weak system, but as a pre-BC+ player myself, I find it a great improvement.

- - - Updated - - -



So you get to act like an animal and place an entire group of people aged 10-60 into a group you call "the 16-18 year old whiners", but then apologizing makes everything all right, yet 2 posts later you revert back to personal attacks? Are you like that in real life as well?

LOL at you claiming pre-BC.

It is a terrible system. Why should we be on equal footing? I didn't stick to the game all that time while other people paid, why should I get the gear they did? BC meant you actually had to put some effort in to catch up, rather than it just being given to you.

STANDING OUT VIA TRANSMOGS? GOD THIS IS SO BROKEN.

[Mechanibull]

I should clarify as well that I find it to be perfectly acceptable to disable flying in specific zones or areas.

What I find disagreeable and completely unacceptable is removing it for the entire expansion. If I have a specific place I'm trying to go (for a daily quest or whatever specific reason), I don't expect to have to do 20 minutes of tedious running around the mountain between myself and my objective to get there.

A good example would be having my home in Vale of Eternal Blossoms, and having to run north into Kun-Lai, east through half that map, then south through the cave, down the stair then west across half of Valley of the Four Winds to do farming dailies. Having to do so would probably double the amount of time it would take to complete them, rendering them, for all intents and purpose for me, not worth doing. I work 60 to 70 hours a week and simply don't have time to spend doing tedious crap I don't want to do.

I also don't want to have to pay several gold for the flight path. The only time I use one of those is when I need to go afk. I paid for flying mounts and flying training so that I wouldn't have to tolerate the horrible pathing of the flight masters.

[Thorsson7]

I should clarify as well that I find it to be perfectly acceptable to disable flying in specific zones or areas.

What I find disagreeable and completely unacceptable is removing it for the entire expansion. If I have a specific place I'm trying to go (for a daily quest or whatever specific reason), I don't expect to have to do 20 minutes of tedious running around the mountain between myself and my objective to get there.

A good example would be having my home in Vale of Eternal Blossoms, and having to run north into Kun-Lai, east through half that map, then south through the cave, down the stair then west across half of Valley of the Four Winds to do farming dailies. Having to do so would probably double the amount of time it would take to complete them, rendering them, for all intents and purpose for me, not worth doing. I work 60 to 70 hours a week and simply don't have time to spend doing tedious crap I don't want to do.

I simply don't want to have to pay several gold for the flight path. The only time I use one of those is when I need to go afk. I paid for flying mounts and flying training so that I wouldn't have to tolerate the horrible pathing of the flight masters.

And this is the issue.

You don't want to have to work for the reward at the end of your daily, you just want it done in 5 mins.

[Sjoa]

A question to follow up your post, Mechanibull:

Which one of the two scenarios would you prefer:

1. Flying allowed like it is in MoP, nothing changes.
2. No flying allowed, portal to each zone available in main cities of Draenor.

There IS a plan behind this from Blizzard's PoV. We just need to have faith in them. I think they will compromise for no flying allowed somehow. People don't seem to take that into account. (No personal attack, James Bond)

[Mechanibull]

And this is the issue.

You don't want to have to work for the reward at the end of your daily, you just want it done in 5 mins.

I have no problem with doing the work of the daily. I have a problem with having to waste time I don't have to be allowed to do the daily I'm trying to do.

[Kaiarra]

If they are actually removing flying in Azeroth this is something that has flew by me without noticing. If this is the case then I will have to reconsider, of course.

Can I please get some confirmation on this?

More along the lines of you seemed to think TBC was so super amazing because you couldn't fly in Stormwind/Org, and I'd rather be unable to fly in SW than unable to fly in all of the WoD zones (because you know, you could fly in the TBC zones). Sadly Bliz won't revert flying in the Azeroth capitals, and they just don't do subtle, so instead we get massive overkill with no flying in any relevant WoD zone. Oh well, at least we can all have hours of fun avoiding fall damage, eh?

In Outland you could fly yes, but there was no AH in Outland. You had to portal to org and mount up on your awesome ground mount and run, watch for fall damage so you don't die, and end up jumping on the bank roof in Org for a couple of hours. It was AWESOME, at least for me.

[Sjoa]

More along the lines of you seemed to think TBC was so super amazing because you couldn't fly in Stormwind/Org, and I'd rather be unable to fly in SW than unable to fly in all of the WoD zones (because you know, you could fly in the TBC zones). Sadly Bliz won't revert flying in the Azeroth capitals, and they just don't do subtle, so instead we get massive overkill with no flying in any relevant WoD zone. Oh well, at least we can all have hours of fun avoiding fall damage, eh?

Thank you for clarifying. But remember, While in TBC we had flying in Outland, there was no flying available in Azeroth, which still was a very relevant world. This worked fine. Now in MoP we have flying in new zones AND the old world. They never made compromises for enabling flying in Azeroth. They see that was wrong and thus, there will be no flying in Draenor.

[Deleted]

No flying would be the best thing to happen to this game.

The game feels to small with flying.
World PvP has become inexistent because of it
Zones don't immerse that much because ur hovering above the canopy
Traveling is not exploring zones, rather than just hit Numblock, Open Map, and steer the direction u want to go.

I'd totally support this. Let WoW feel grand and immersive again.

[Thorsson7]

Cliffs:

WoW's population is dropping.
Cata started it.
MoP made it worse.
Adding features/removing difficulty killed the game.


Facts

Don't even bother arguing. The numbers can't lie.

[Sjoa]

Cliffs:

WoW's population is dropping.
Cata started it.
MoP made it worse.
Adding features/removing difficulty killed the game.


Facts

Don't even bother arguing. The numbers can't lie.

~~Edit2~~

deleted post as I misunderstood completely

[Thage]

Cliffs:

WoW's population is dropping.
Cata started it.
MoP made it worse.
Adding features/removing difficulty killed the game.


Facts

Don't even bother arguing. The numbers can't lie.

You do realize the devs essentially laugh at "The sub drop is because of [my pet peeve]", right? They've tweeted repeatedly that none of them take that argument seriously and frankly, neither should we.

[urasim]

Vanilla was too much of a timesink

TBC got it 90% right

WotLK was a great balance between being able to be pretty well geared without having to invest too much time, but the people who were really serious far surpassed them and had to have proper raiding guilds/arena teams to be top 1%.

Cata wasn't bad timesink wise, but the world being ruined, talents + classes being overhauled ruined it.

MoP is just an auto-queue, auto-loot, auto-win easy fest. I got capped and bought FULL Tyrannical after quitting for 9 months just by using the catchup and winning at low MMR.

Wtf man, I shouldn't be able to get the same gear as people who were playing since the beginning of the season.

The world being ruined is your opinion. Many think it was a vast improvement. Talents were overhauled in every single expansion.

The burning crusade was almost as bad of a time sink as classic. I guess you forgot about attunements... In classic you can skip MC, BWL, and AQ if your guild was killing bosses in Naxx. In TBC you HAD to do heroic 5 mans for gear, you had to do kara to do grul and mag, you had to do ssc and the eye to do hyjal and bt. Blizzard later, way too late imo, realized that gearing and raiding your new tank was way too much of a hassle with that system.

There HAS to be a catch up method for guilds that are pushing content so they can keep their roster healthy.