Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Deleted]

As a fan of world PvP I hope that flying doesn't come to WoD anytime soon. I understand if Blizz feels it has to arrive 6.1 (or thereabouts), however I would be happy ground mounts enforced for the whole expansion - and only opened up when the next expansion lands.

[Mafic]

And this is a bad thing because...?

Daily quest hubs suck. They suck BIG TIME. They are the freakin mother of all suckiness. If you look up "suck" in the Oxford dictionary, there is actually a picture of a blue exclamation mark next to it.

I can think of nothing more tedious, uninspiring, boring and outright dumb, than doing the same quests over and over again, to get some reputation with a faction. I am sorry, its simply boring. Yes I realize that an MMO needs timesinks, but not this! I am happy if I have to farm 1000 Mobs, I am perfectly fine with running instances over and over, but Daily Quest hubs? COME ON! I am a legendary freakin hero, not an errand boy for a bunch of whiny pandas.

Yes it is a bad thing because they didn't replace it with anything interesting.

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As a fan of world PvP I hope that flying doesn't come to WoD anytime soon. I understand if Blizz feels it has to arrive 6.1 (or thereabouts), however I would be happy ground mounts enforced for the whole expansion - and only opened up when the next expansion lands.

As a fan of world PVP I hope flying comes to WoD asap. More world PVP happens when flying is part of the world because you can join in at the hot spots whenever they flare up (eg PVP vendors).

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To those that claim that they understand "world PVP" they are blowing a bunch of hot air. Without flying, for example how would you propose you push back a raid against your vendors on Serpent Spine? If you use Blizzard's flight path you are instantly killed as soon you land against a raid party. To reach Serpent Spine at the top of the wall you have to go all the way around with a ground mount depending on which side of the zone you are on, etc

What flying enables is our counter raid can land in a distance (flying mounts) and we can assemble as a group to push back the raid on our vendors.

That is what flying enables for world PVP. Big skirmishes.

[Deleted]

As a fan of world PVP I hope flying comes to WoD asap. More world PVP happens when flying is part of the world because you can join in at the hot spots whenever they flare up (eg PVP vendors).

I understand your point but the 'zip in zip out' fighting doesn't appeal to me.

With flying WPvP just falls int 'who get OOC and fly to safety first'. If every single encounter you have has an eject button, if every single combatant in an encounter has a way to escape every time..... well that doesn't really equal compelling game-play to me. There is a reason they are not allowed BGs and PvP Zones.

(That said - I would like at lease one new BG where flying is enabled. Could make for an interesting twist.)

[Arbs]

Why is majority of people in this thread so dense in the head, They are not removing Flying from the game. It is restricted for 1 continent. You still fly around everyone else, just not Draenor until It is opened up in a patch. But why do I keep hearing flying is removed. When it isn't.

My friend Maneo, please give me the hope you always give me that people really don't actually think Flying is removed.

No of course not.

I'm not asking for them to promise something either. I just would prefer if they spoke with simplicity and clarity.

"New player models complete with faces took more time than we expected, and some races are not ready for launch." Is that hard?

I don't understand why when Blue's do actually say something, it is either horribly unclear and requires a dozen Twitter posts to clarify, or it is like a 3 page essay in an attempt to self-justify their own double-talk.

That ship has sailed years ago, the reason they are quiet on so many things is because whenever they speak up. People throw a hissy fit. Really I wish for more communication, but really no one can win.

[Deleted]

To those that claim that they understand "world PVP" they are blowing a bunch of hot air. ...snip...

No one has to 'understand' world PvP. I can just tell you what I like and don't like about it.

That is what flying enables for world PVP. Big skirmishes.

I'll take small skirmishes with consequence, peril, and regard for geography over big zergs any day.

[jd5]

Why is majority of people in this thread so dense in the head, They are not removing Flying from the game. It is restricted for 1 continent. You still fly around everyone else, just not Draenor until It is opened up in a patch. But why do I keep hearing flying is removed. When it isn't.

You know how the anti-flight side hates the "you have a choice to fly or use your ground mount rhetoric?"

Well, the quoted text is the same for the pro-flight side.

Draenor is new content, it is the only content worth mentioning (especially in a thread titled 'no flying in wod'). I don't give a crap about the rest of the wow zones unless there is new content coming for those also.


As for Mewt-Frostmane... I have to ask a question. My understanding is you think flying is part of what eliminated world PVP (and no flying will bring it back). But, do you really think the lack of flying will make people who would mount up and fly/run away want to PVP? My guess is if they did not want to PVP in the first place, the lack of flying will not change that. It will not bring back something they want no part of.

Now yes, you will get a couple free kills here and there, but if they were runners before, they will simply run / log off / jump on an alt / or other, all the same.

Expect the world PVP you have today to be very similar to the world PVP you will have in WoD.

[Nayaga]

I prefer to have daily Quests over mindless grind, like Emperor Shaohao. It's actually depressing when I open my Reputation tab, and there's "Emperor Shaohao - neutral" ruining the perfect view of Pandaria Exalted's..

I agree, much rather have daily quests over mindless grind.

[Arbs]

You know how the anti-flight side hates the "you have a choice to fly or use your ground mount rhetoric?"

Well, the quoted text is the same for the pro-flight side.

Draenor is new content, it is the only content worth mentioning (especially in a thread titled 'no flying in wod'). I don't give a crap about the rest of the wow zones unless there is new content coming for those also.

An thats were you don't seem to understand clearly, It's not being removed. Regardless if Draenor is the only worth mentioning, It is just being restricted until a patch. mostly likely 6.1. But everyone loves to exaggerate that it is being removed, If it was being removed it would removed from the whole game & not just a single contient. Flying will be in the expansion at some point, so it it clearly restricted. Just like it was in EK / Kalimdor until Cataclysm.

If people can't accept that it is restricted ok, but if people really think it is being removed than they should get off internet forums because they just got trolled hard.

[Nayaga]

Why is majority of people in this thread so dense in the head, They are not removing Flying from the game. It is restricted for 1 continent. You still fly around everyone else, just not Draenor until It is opened up in a patch. But why do I keep hearing flying is removed. When it isn't.

.

Possibly the most dense statement about flying possible. Once WoD is released, we will be in Dreanor 99% of the time. 99% of the time there will be no flying.

[Arbs]

I agree, much rather have daily quests over mindless grind.

I like Dailies, but the amount of whining they got at the beginning of MoP tells me no wants Dailies as they actually have to put some effort in. If we got the Tabards again with the WoD Heroics people would whine they are to hard to spam run them.

You prbly know this like me, people have just been spoonfeed for way to long & now rather they just open a fancy chest with all their loot in it.

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Possibly the most dense statement about flying possible. Once WoD is released, we will be in Dreanor 99% of the time. 99% of the time there will be no flying.

Ya it would be like MoP, just we can't fly until 6.1. It really isn't hard to understand, it not being in at launch don't mean it was removed .

[Asmekiel]

Ya it would be like MoP, just we can't fly until 6.1. It really isn't hard to understand, it not being in at launch don't mean it was removed .

Blizzard never said that it will return with a patch, so far they only said that it's a possibility.

[Arbs]

Blizzard never said that it will return with a patch, so far they only said that it's a possibility.

Oh it will return in a patch, they would never leave it out for the whole expansion.

Anyone who thinks they would is clearly not thinking.

[quras]

Oh it will return in a patch, they would never leave it out for the whole expansion.

Anyone who thinks they would is clearly not thinking.

and I would like to think blizzard would return flying as well but given their statements, it's still undecided and I don't pay $50 for undecided features they are still selling you access to in the cash shop. It's too much of a dick move for me to support.

As well as, when I hit max level, which will be in 2 weeks or less, having to wait around for 4 months till 6.1 comes out allowing flying if it indeed does allow it back in game.

It's great you think in all blizzard verbiage they are going to add it back but so far it is not a confirmed move to do so. Until it's clearly said by them, nothing is a promise so nothing can be believed or taken with anything more than a grain of salt.

If blizzard speaks it, don't believe it till you actually see it happen. (then make sure you're not drugged up).

[Deleted]

As for Mewt-Frostmane... I have to ask a question. My understanding is you think flying is part of what eliminated world PVP (and no flying will bring it back). ..snip...

......THEN.......

We should have known better. We were too eager to get there and too careless. Following the path we take a wrong turn and run into four horde players questing. Praying we've not been spotted we quickly turn off and head into the woods. It's too little too late. They head towards us.

And luck isn't on our side.

Disaster strikes as Sedo walks into the orc hunter's hidden frost trap intended for a mob. Cursing our luck we trinket out, dismount, drop an Earthgrab and run up the hill, heading for a known small dungeon up by the clearing. Sedo laughs on Skype, 'We're not going to get out of this one easily'.

We look back. They are hot on our heals, the orc hunter has an angry Paladin and two Warrior friends. We make it up to the clearing. Sure enough the dungeon entrance is right where I remember it.

'Fuuuuuck, there are elites by the door'. Damn. We're not going in anytime soon. Looking back I see that the Pala is having trouble getting over the river. He's separating from the others and they are over extending.

'Dude we can take them, they are now only three'. Sedo stealths and heads for closest. I head for a large rock to hide my red text and pray I have enough time to swap a glyph.

We slam into the orc with all we have got. Sedo expertly chain CC's one warrior while we blow all CDs on the other. Low on health I have to use LOS to hide from charges. Sedo is outmatch but in a stroke of genius he pulls the elites and vanishes. They pummel the warrior and its done.

The Pala arrives mounted to a bloodbath. Upon seeing his friends dead he quickly U-Turns and bolts down the hill.

Laughing hysterically Sedo and I mount up. The chase is on.....


......NOW......

We spot four horde players questing. We climb up to 300 yards and tab out.



Yes. Flying mounts killed world PvP.

[quras]

......THEN.......

We should have known better. We were too eager to get there and too careless. Following the path we take a wrong turn and run into four horde players questing. Praying we've not been spotted we quickly turn off and head into the woods. It's too little too late. They head towards us.

And luck isn't on our side.

Disaster strikes as Sedo walks into the orc hunter's hidden frost trap intended for a mob. Cursing our luck we trinket out, dismount, drop an Earthgrab and run up the hill, heading for a known small dungeon up by the clearing. Sedo laughs on Skype, 'We're not going to get out of this one easily'.

We look back. They are hot on our heals, the orc hunter has an angry Paladin and two Warrior friends. We make it up to the clearing. Sure enough the dungeon entrance is right where I remember it.

'Fuuuuuck, there are elites by the door'. Damn. We're not going in anytime soon. Looking back I see that the Pala is having trouble getting over the river. He's separating from the others and they are over extending.

'Dude we can take them, they are now only three'. Sedo stealths and heads for closest. I head for a large rock to hide my red text and pray I have enough time to swap a glyph.

We slam into the orc with all we have got. Sedo expertly chain CC's one warrior while we blow all CDs on the other. Low on health I have to use LOS to hide from charges. Sedo is outmatch but in a stroke of genius he pulls the elites and vanishes. They pummel the warrior and its done.

The Pala arrives mounted to a bloodbath. Upon seeing his friends dead he quickly U-Turns and bolts down the hill.

Laughing hysterically Sedo and I mount up. The chase is on.....


......NOW......

We spot four horde players questing. We climb up to 300 yards and tab out.



Yes. Flying mounts killed world PvP.

OR

You could have stayed on the ground and done everything you ever wanted from your first example but you choose not to.

If you didn't want to PVP in the first place, flying didn't stop you from doing it. You didn't want to, so you packed up and left.

What killed WPVP? Blizzard did.

Blizzard instanced battlegrounds and arenas with actual rewards. Flying didn't kill it. Everything in your example can be achieved if you actually wanted to have some WPVP. In your second example you choose to leave.

No different than a rogue or druid or mage or hunter or any toon simply running away. If gamers don't want to PVP, they will not and flying just made it easier to do for everyone instead of a few classes having an easy out button.

Flying is the scapegoat, not the cause of WPVP problems.

[Deleted]

OR

You could have stayed on the ground and done everything you ever wanted from your first example but you choose not to.

Thats not the point. In my fictitious example we want to avoid a situation. But we can't because of certain limitations.

It's called emergent gameplay. We end up in an ambush and have to fight our way out of it.

The limits of the system (no flying) created a gameplay scenario that could all to easily be circumvented without those limits.

In the current scenario we *still want to avoid the situation*. And we can all to easily and the emergent gameplay scenario is foiled because we can fly.

Your argument doesn't work.

[Deleted]

Thats not the point. In my fictitious example we want to avoid a situation. But we can't because of certain limitations.

It's called emergent gameplay. We end up in an ambush and have to fight our way out of it.

The limits of the system (no flying) created a gameplay scenario that could all to easily be circumvented without those limits.

In the current scenario we *still want to avoid the situation*. And we can all to easily and the emergent gameplay scenario is foiled because we can fly.

Your argument doesn't work.

You still have somehow to make me type /pvp and then press enter to have your "ambush".
You can't.
So your argument doesn't work.

[Deleted]

You still have somehow to make me type /pvp and then press enter to have your "ambush".
You can't.

I won't have to. My scenario takes place on a PvP server. I'll assume you wont be there.

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Just so we are clear. You are talking about pros/cons of no-flying in the context of world pvp... from a PvE server?

[quras]

Thats not the point. In my fictitious example we want to avoid a situation. But we can't because of certain limitations.

It's called emergent gameplay. We end up in an ambush and have to fight our way out of it.

The limits of the system (no flying) created a gameplay scenario that could all to easily be circumvented without those limits.

In the current scenario we *still want to avoid the situation*. And we can all to easily and the emergent gameplay scenario is foiled because we can fly.

Your argument doesn't work.

Whatever story you might want to spin, if gamers don't want to PVP they will not and immersion is so subjective it's too hard to argue. I would bet many a gamers thinking having this magical dragon that cannot suddenly fly in a world with flying all around ruins immersion right away.

In your second example, you packed up and left. You clearly didn't want to be there, flying just gave you a way out where that particular "get ot of jail free card" is reserved for half the characters.

Hell, if you had time to mount up and fly away, you had time to mount up and ride away. Never seeing any WPVP.

You trumped up RP story doesn't work. Especially if gamers don't actually want to PVP. They will just as easily let you kill them and then move on.

You seem to be under the impression that no flying will somehow encourage or force gamers to PVP. It will not.

No matter what server you're on, if you make an example of someone trying to get out of PVP, they will get out of it unless you're also talking about ganking others and then no one gives a "F" about that, flying or no flying.

I won't have to. My scenario takes place on a PvP server. I'll assume you wont be there.

PVP server or not, when gamers don't want to take part in it, flying or no flying will not force them into it.

If you want to make an argument about things that get gamers out of PVP, you better branch out to more just flying or not. Hell, ground mounts got to go at that point too and again, if you're talking about ganking. Who cares at that point. It's a cheap move anyway.

[Deleted]

You seem to be under the impression that no flying will somehow encourage or force gamers to PVP. It will not.

No matter what server you're on, if you make an example of someone trying to get out of PVP, they will get out of it unless you're also talking about ganking others and then no one gives a "F" about that, flying or no flying.

PVP server or not, when gamers don't want to take part in it, flying or no flying will not force them into it.

If you want to make as argument about things that get gamers out of PVP, you better branch out to more just flying or not. Hell, ground mounts got to go at that point and again, if you're talking about ganking. Who cares at that point. It's a cheap move anyway.

I am 100% talking about ganking and world PvP. My scenario is about avoiding being ganked. World PvP is about ganking and avoiding being ganked.

What I am not a 100% sure of is that I am communicating with anyone that actually world PvPs. "Make me type /pvp..." + what is written above.

There are many many good arguments for flying mounts being in WoD. Perhaps focus on those arguments rather claiming to have the last word on world pvp from your PvE server.