Lets assume 15 dollars an hour happens

[bowchikabow]

Guess what. We don't need to wonder. Industries have all ready given their answer, and you won't like it!



Also, I am tired of hearing people talk about "this wouldn't happen if we had unions". Look at the Verizon union strikes for all the reason you need!

[Machismo]

You don't have to give them anything if you don't want to. As I said, if you have $X right now, you'll still be at $X when it raises. We already say "you have to pay your employees this much." Just the "this much" is changing, and no money suddenly goes away. Whether or not you choose to pay them more, or keep your money and close your business is up to you.

That's like saying taxes aren't a restriction of freedom, because people could simply choose to not make money. Or better yet, banning gay marriage is not a restriction of freedom, because they are free to not get married.

[Cricket22]

Pressure cookers if you're in a rush. Something that normally takes 10 hrs in 40 minutes.

I prefer pressure cookers. The problem with slow cookers is the meat is dissolved to the point where, in my opinion, it tastes downright slimy.

I only use slow cookers for making soup base, or, as paleos have hysterically renamed it, bone broth. Simmered for 10-12 hours until even the bones start to dissolve. Slow cookers are perfect for that purpose.

[Fugus]

I think the issue with that lies far more with public-employee unions, since they are causing a lot of problems with the financial security of cities and states.

I don't really think so in that regard.

I think it more so the non-union private sector refusing to allow their wages to keep pace with inflation and such while the public sector unions attempting to and the further the gap goes between the public and private sector wages go due to wages not keeping up, the more attention is drawn to it and the bigger the attempt to depress public wages to keep them more inline with private sector.

When the republican's got control over the budget, one of the things they included in it was a pay cut to our military. They cut their annual cost of living raises making sure that each year they make progressively less than they otherwise would have. Their justification for this had nothing to do with inflation or anything like that, their excuse was that military pay was getting too high relative to civilian pay and wanted to put them more in line.

A lot of our problems are from them trying looking to the private sector as a guild for wages when the private sector wages are currently too low. And instead of trying to fix the issue and bring the private sector wages up, they try to make it worse and use them as an excuse to bring public sector wages down.

Edit: And the financial security of those cities are hurt immensely from the lower minimum wage. It reduces tax revenue as they are too broke to pay taxes, it increase expenses as they are so broke they need welfare to survive. It reduces consumption and with it demand for jobs from people being too broke to pay for anything.

[Cricket22]

[QUOTE=DesMephisto;39897184]Unfortunately, my wife got a PHD program here with stipend however were stuck here for 6 months without a job until then. She also needs to be here to work with the professor to start working on the project to have time for classes.[/QUOTE

Hopefully your finances will improve after graduation. Best of luck to you both!

[Masark]

Guess what. We don't need to wonder. Industries have all ready given their answer, and you won't like it!

Yes they haven't actually implemented any of this stuff in nations with higher minimum wages.

Nothing but the rattling of blunt sabres.

[Fugus]

And Machismo, I know you keep mentioning other areas without minimum wages but even in those areas, their wages tend to be much higher than ours unless you hit 2nd and 3rd world countries which we shouldn't be trying to compete against on wages or who has the lowest standard of living which ends up being related to it.

A good example of a country without minimum wages and doing good is Denmark who has no official minimum wage and strong unions which is why their McDonald's employees make $20 an hour there as compared to here.

[wheresmywoft]

Yes they haven't actually implemented any of this stuff in nations with higher minimum wages.

Nothing but the rattling of blunt sabres.

I've had those kiosks in MacDonalds near me for close to 2 years. Well before discussions on minimum wage. And if you consider the time to design test and produce the kiosks. You can be sure that it was on it's way in long before 2014, regardless of minimum wage.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

It's sad that greed has led to this assfuckery of a scenario.

I personally hate the idea of mandated minimum wages as they DO hurt smaller businesses and aid in diminishing merit raises. Walmart went down this route, giving everyone a dollar more every year. Guess what they do? Fold any merit/tenure raises into that so despite maybe working twice as hard as the next fellow, you get none of it when the buck ups a tick the following year. So why bother, you know?

That said, the greed of the few is astonishing. They will consume and consume their fill until there is so little left for anyone else. Tenure is meek more often than not. Virtually no merit as well unless you're willing to give your life to the company and forgo all other earthly pleasures - then you can go as far as you like, just don't pay any mind towards the sacrifices along the way! Like many other issues, there is no sense of balance anymore.

Honestly, the more time goes on, the more I lose faith in humanity. The more I wish I could just be religious. The funny part is, if I did become religious, I'd disappear from all of this entirely. That's what I don't get about the religious. You have promise of a better life. Something beyond today. Yet you writhe among the filth of politics? To me that is the opposite of having faith.

...again, fucking humans. Can't do anything right!

[Fugus]

It's sad that greed has led to this assfuckery of a scenario.

I personally hate the idea of mandated minimum wages as they DO hurt smaller businesses and aid in diminishing merit raises. Walmart went down this route, giving everyone a dollar more every year. Guess what they do? Fold any merit/tenure raises into that so despite maybe working twice as hard as the next fellow, you get none of it when the buck ups a tick the following year. So why bother, you know?

That said, the greed of the few is astonishing. They will consume and consume their fill until there is so little left for anyone else. Virtually no tenure. Virtually no merit unless you're willing to give your life to the company and forgo all other earthly pleasures. Like many other issues, there is no sense of balance anymore.

Honestly, the more time goes on, the more I lose faith in humanity. The more I wish I could just be religious. The funny part is, if I did become religious, I'd disappear from all of this entirely. That's what I don't get about the religious. You have promise of a better life. Something beyond today. Yet you writhe among the filth of politics? To me that is the opposite of having faith.

Actually, higher minimum wages actually help small businesses more in the long run as it gives the consumers more money to frequent their establishments. The lower the wages are, the more restrictive purchasing habits become and the higher priced, lower profit margin small businesses become the first things cut out.

Lower minimum wages actually play to the department stores such as Walmart's strength as more people are required to go their just to stretch their money as far as it can get and many times they are forced to sacrifice what they want for what they can afford in their purchasing habits.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Actually, higher minimum wages actually help small businesses more in the long run as it gives the consumers more money to frequent their establishments. The lower the wages are, the more restrictive purchasing habits become and the higher priced, lower profit margin small businesses become the first things cut out.

Lower minimum wages actually play to the department stores such as Walmart's strength as more people are required to go their just to stretch their money as far as it can get and many times they are forced to sacrifice what they want for what they can afford in their purchasing habits.

I find that hard to believe and have yet seen evidence for as much. The market really should ultimately determine the value for services and goods, otherwise I can only see an unholy amount of artificial inflation occurring.

[iceberg265]

Wouldn't higher income for everyone increase business and revenue though? People will have more disposable money to spend. Am I wrong in thinking that?

No you are exactly right, it is called the velocity of money.

[judgementofantonidas]

keep shitting on poor people it's what people like you do best. keep blaming the poor for everything that goes wrong in your life.

I am not shitting on anyone. I am simply stating that people who are unemployed or underemployed need to try harder. Those who do, benefit. Those who do not are continually "kept down by the man".

[Fugus]

I find that hard to believe and have yet seen evidence for as much. The market really should ultimately determine the value for services and goods, otherwise I can only see an unholy amount of artificial inflation occurring.

A few things about the market, it doesn't self regulated and takes constant supervision to keep itself from flying off the rails. And wages are one of those things they have to regulated either via law or strong enough collective bargaining to put them at or near equal levels to the employer in negotiating power.

The wages directly effect the costs of goods and services and how many can be offered. And by their nature, the small businesses lack the economies of scale that the big corporations have. So in general, their prices will be higher with a lower overall profit margin for them.

When wages are decent, people have money they can actually spend and the small businesses end up with more customers buying more merchandise allowing them to profit and grow. When wages are low, people are trying their best to save their money and those small stores get left behind for the cheaper department stores and such where you might not get what you want, but it is something you can afford.

These are things economists have actually looked at. When things are tight for individuals, luxuries are the first things dropped and the quality of the necessities purchased tend to do so as well for the cheaper options. And minimum wage plays greatly into that.

[iceberg265]

I am not shitting on anyone. I am simply stating that people who are unemployed or underemployed need to try harder. Those who do, benefit. Those who do not are continually "kept down by the man".

This is just so ignorant. Not all people are born with the same opportunities as others. Simply telling people to 'try harder' is disingenuous at best.

[judgementofantonidas]

Ok you proved my point on the first question. Just because flipping burgers pays the $15, doesn't make the job more enjoyable.

As for the third point, IRS will have a field day if they catch McDonald's mass hiring illegals and paying them below min wage.

- - - Updated - - -



You could even drop the minimum wage and machines will still be replacing jobs. Saves on paperwork, insurance, liability, etc.

- - - Updated - - -



Look up communism and comeback to this thread. You'll realize how off your post is.

i proved nothing in favor of your argument by stating that I would not be found flipping burgers. I have a trade, which I incidentally taught myself after my college degree did little for me. now I work my ass off to provide for my wife and two children. anyone that can put up with bullshit can work at a place like mcdonalds. so being easily replaced that kind of person does not demand a higher rate of pay. period. IF the lowest end of the pay scale is adjusted to 15 dollars which incidenally is still probably too little to get by on in an inflated place like new york, then the median and higher rates of pay should also be adjusted up. all that ill do is cause things to cost more to make up for the higher wages. so, yay you got paid 15 dollars an hour to be a laborer. now burgers cost 10 dollars.................

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

A few things about the market, it doesn't self regulated and takes constant supervision to keep itself from flying off the rails. And wages are one of those things they have to regulated either via law or strong enough collective bargaining to put them at or near equal levels to the employer in negotiating power.

The wages directly effect the costs of goods and services and how many can be offered. And by their nature, the small businesses lack the economies of scale that the big corporations have. So in general, their prices will be higher with a lower overall profit margin for them.

When wages are decent, people have money they can actually spend and the small businesses end up with more customers buying more merchandise allowing them to profit and grow. When wages are low, people are trying their best to save their money and those small stores get left behind for the cheaper department stores and such where you might not get what you want, but it is something you can afford.

These are things economists have actually looked at. When things are tight for individuals, luxuries are the first things dropped and the quality of the necessities purchased tend to do so as well for the cheaper options. And minimum wage plays greatly into that.

So why does it not help states that increase their minimum wage independently? In fact, arguably, they're often much worse off as their cost of living tends to inflate towards ridiculous levels. All it manages to do, AT BEST, is seemingly move the goal post downfield some ways. That's it.

I can see temporary injections into the market being a good thing and in the process likely avoiding inflation of everyday costs but an indefinite raise to minimum wage? Only thing my logic can see is everything else going up with it.

[iceberg265]

i proved nothing in favor of your argument by stating that I would not be found flipping burgers. I have a trade, which I incidentally taught myself after my college degree did little for me. now I work my ass off to provide for my wife and two children. anyone that can put up with bullshit can work at a place like mcdonalds. so being easily replaced that kind of person does not demand a higher rate of pay. period. IF the lowest end of the pay scale is adjusted to 15 dollars which incidenally is still probably too little to get by on in an inflated place like new york, then the median and higher rates of pay should also be adjusted up. all that ill do is cause things to cost more to make up for the higher wages. so, yay you got paid 15 dollars an hour to be a laborer. now burgers cost 10 dollars.................

A $15 minimum wage would increase McDonald's Big Mac prices by 68 cents.

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...at-mcdona.aspx

[judgementofantonidas]

Well that's quite intriguing then. A business owner with your gratitude for employees? That's just strange. Doesn't matter if they're working at $10/hr mopping floors or using linear methods to optimize operations (e.g. the task at hand), lazy is the last thing to conclude unless obviously, their output is constrained by themselves. In the end, they're working and that really is all that matters.

Returning to interns, it really is a surprise that a business owner like yourself attempts to value their work in the instance of $20K a summer with little actual output all the while condescending on minimum wage labor. That's a lot like someone from STEM calling someone who majored in business lazy.

not once have I condescended on laborers. I condescended on laborers claiming it is anyone eases fault but their own for being no more than a laborer.

[Annoying]

That's like saying taxes aren't a restriction of freedom, because people could simply choose to not make money. Or better yet, banning gay marriage is not a restriction of freedom, because they are free to not get married.

No, when you got your business license, you agreed to follow the laws regulating businesses in your state and country. Taxes and fundamental rights have nothing to do with you agreeing to run your business in the way the the government says you have to. There's no restriction or reduction of freedom because you agreed to run your business with a minimum wage that can change.

You could argue a restriction or reduction of freedom on being required to get a business license, but not in following the laws you agreed to follow.