I enjoyed 10 man more, you felt much more important to the group as a whole, a lot less time managing the guild since it was smaller and the fights were still very hard. I think most people would agree 10man heroic was more difficult on a whole compared to 25man heroic in MoP.
EXACTLY THIS! OMG, why is it so hard for people to understand this, including Blizzard? For this reason im for the first time considering not to come back for Legion.
I stopped playing 8 months ago mid HFC progression cause my core couldnt go on anymore due to not having consistency, since we're always missing good players, yes, we had more than 20 people, but at any point, we seemed to always have 6, 7 people being carried, and is very hard to find good replacements. If it was 10 man, i could always have a good, non-stressful raid environment within my own circle of friends, like i had through MoP, but 20 man has turned the PVE, which btw is the only thing i rly care about WoW, into something that is more about the human resources - constantly looking for players and dealing with all the stresses involved - than the actual raids.
Even if i come back, im absolutely sure that within 2 months my core will be suffering from the same dramas we were plagued during WoD all over again... Im not sure i can deal with such BS anymore... x.x
Last edited by Warrada; 2016-05-20 at 08:34 AM.
" So much lost time... that you'll never get back!"....
I guess we'll just have to talk again once 7.0 hits then because you're merely speculating it will change the picture entirely. Personally, I don't see this "obscene amount" of people doing old raids then.
Right now, it's 75% less players clearing BRF compared to Throne. That number stands. Let's see what has happened to the BRF clearing numbers once Legion is out.
Regarding sub losses: You're also just speculating here about a loss of 60% or more. What we can work with are 8m subs at Throne release and the last number Blizz cared to give out with 5.5m. That's a loss of 30%. Anything beyond that is just more speculation.
this. same case for me.
full success for me. people who dont want to put in effort or cant, should not feel entitled to it. and I see joining a new guild and socializing as an effort.
tbh mythic finally made me give up on raidleading myself, since my fellow real life friends never did anything but show up for raids, so i did everything alone and they never lasted a whole content. now im happy Im in company of people who have the same engagement in raiding. mythic was revolutionary for me.
You would have this exact issue in a 10 man having to carry 3, 4 worse players....being unable to find good replacements would affect you just as much. Subs dropping =/= Mythic being unfeasible.
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Even those numbers entirely line up with the drop in guilds, accounting for 10mans merging as well and new guilds being created. If anything, the fact there are still comparable numbers of Mythic guilds clearing HFC is pretty astounding in relation to the dropping playerbase.
I dunno how anyone can point to a drop of 30% (and it's more at this point as we all know) in playerbase, along with a slash of at LEAST 50% in the number of guilds just thanks to the change from 10 to 20m alone, and still claim that significantly lower numbers are "out of the ordinary" or indicate anything about the relative "success" of the measure. Again, the numbers not only fall completely in line with what we've seen happen in subs and what we'd expect due to the change, they're even surprisingly strong at this point.
Which one is easier, find 10 good players, or 20 good players? This is simple match...
As i said, in my own circle of friends, i could form a good 10 man core, like i had during MoP, but Mythic forced me to look for 10 more people, and when the whole server is suddenly also 'looking for 10 more people', theres not a whole lot of quality raiders available out there, so you have to get what you find, else you wont even raid since you dont have 20M...
" So much lost time... that you'll never get back!"....
Finding replacements and doubling the size of your team aren't anywhere close to the same thing.
To anyone who says "just merge", you do realize guild merges are a massive source of conflict? Just the conflict between the tanks alone can destroy the entire merger, as tanks tend to be the most dedicated members of a raid team. Which guild gets to use their tanks? What about other personality conflicts? Mergers aren't some magical solution to the problem, you're just trading a difficult problem for another difficult problem.
I don't get why you're so adamant about counting guild numbers. The most precise way to figure out if there has been an unproportional loss of players clearing the highest difficulty is taking a look at the number of players doing just that. It's pretty simple. We'll wait until Legion has hit and then take another look at the clearing numbers. It's 75% less at the moment and I highly doubt that 7.0 will turn that around. To be perfectly clear: We'd have to be at 2m subs right now to make that loss in clearing players not unproportional.
That is not an unrealistic number to assume at all, if you extrapolate from the trend at the point of the last published numbers.
And you're still not getting it. Significantly smaller playerbase AND less guilds, AND you're STILL comparing the middle Tier after the fact of the completed expansion, instead of the two final Tiers, which are much more comparable.
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The discussion was "carrying 6 or so bad players in a 20 man". You would have the same issue if you had 3 or so bad players in a 10man. And most 10 mans had that.
And this is healthy reaction to 20 Mythic being "too hard" to be organised. You want to do raid on highest level? You have to raid with 20man like EVERYONE else on Mythic.
Well this is why there is always option to merge guilds. It is not like it would be an issue only for 1 guild that they cannot expand theirs rooster.
Well not always, during a period, players that wanted to raid the arguably "hardest content" with their closest friends and or family in a small group of 10 ppl, without the logistic hassle, could. They could actually have fun playing the game for the game, without having someone to organize the ingame time like if it was a corporation of some sort.
I've played 10-man Heroic in MoP and it was a disaster. We faced a waaay harder difficulty then 25-man because of the lack of raid cooldowns. Also don't tell me you can stroll with "friends and family" through Mythic... that's a blatand lie, tell your mother she has to sit out on x boss cuz she's bad and u'll be seeing Christmas Dinner from outside.
I wouldnt tell my mother for sure because she's 64 and doesnt even go near a PC. But for you it seems hard to grasp the concept that some ppl did raid with brothers, cousins, close friends that could possibily be considered family, and that this kind of relationship and ambient that exists in small groups is impossible in big ones.
I was one of those guys excited with the change at the beggining of WoD. Going back to "large" groups had some sort of nostalgia to me, taking me back to Burning Crusade and LK times, boy was i wrong.
Mythic raiding has killed two guilds I've been in as people stop playing and the guilds have had to recruit or merge or die. I'm glad I have a Legion invite as I really didn't want to look for a new raiding guild just yet.
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