[huge spoiler] legion issue

[procne]

They can be wiped out and reformed (even assimilated into the Alliance), but that's too much work and some of the players won't like it, so they don't do it.

They can't be assimilated because of deep hatred between the races. It's impossible to do in any realistic way from the lore point of view. Orcs will not want to live with humans, humans will not want to live with orcs or the undead. Alliance wouldn't accept horde races on any other terms than alliance ones. Horde races would have to abandon their culture and traditions to which they would never agree. In this case "assimilation" would ultimately mean packing orcs back into internment camps. You can't just take totally different nations / cultures and force them into 1 nation. Horde and Alliance will always be separate. They might be allies, and sometimes are in specific situations (wrath gate, legion invasion etc), but they will not be 1 nation.

[rda]

They can't be assimilated because of deep hatred between the races. It's impossible to do in any realistic way from the lore point of view. Orcs will not want to live with humans, humans will not want to live with orcs or the undead. Alliance wouldn't accept horde races on any other terms than alliance ones. Horde races would have to abandon their culture and traditions to which they would never agree. In this case "assimilation" would ultimately mean packing orcs back into internment camps. You can't just take totally different nations / cultures and force them into 1 nation. Horde and Alliance will always be separate. They might be allies, and sometimes are in specific situations (wrath gate, legion invasion etc), but they will not be 1 nation.

A realistic way to do it in the lore: the Alliance destroys the Horde from the military point of view, winning everything. They spare to what remains of the Horde their lives and allow them to live under the rule of the Alliance, scattering them from Orgrimmar and similar centers of former Horde power. The players belong to the part that has been spared. (Many of their in-game characters would actually welcome it, because the Horde did little good, it was bloody evil 90% of the time, but that's beside the point, it doesn't matter.)

[Daralii]

A realistic way to do it in the lore: the Alliance destroys the Horde from the military point of view, winning everything. They spare to what remains of the Horde their lives and allow them to live under the rule of the Alliance, scattering them from Orgrimmar and similar centers of former Horde power. The players belong to the part that has been spared. (Many of their in-game characters would actually welcome it, because the Horde did little good, it was bloody evil 90% of the time, but that's beside the point, it doesn't matter.)

You mean exactly what Jaina wanted to do at the end of SoO, but Varian decided against?

I still don't know why he decided against it. His vote is what spared the orcs after the Second War, so you'd think he would understand how risky just leaving them be is.

[Deleted]

A realistic way to do it in the lore: the Alliance destroys the Horde from the military point of view, winning everything. They spare to what remains of the Horde their lives and allow them to live under the rule of the Alliance, scattering them from Orgrimmar and similar centers of former Horde power. The players belong to the part that has been spared. (Many of their in-game characters would actually welcome it, because the Horde did little good, it was bloody evil 90% of the time, but that's beside the point, it doesn't matter.)

And Horde starts a guerilla war to break allience from inside.

New class: Goblin Sapper

skills: Suicide Attack, Create Propaganda pamflet,
Video making in BlizzTube Video Garrison

[rda]

And Horde starts a guerilla war to break allience from inside.

New class: Goblin Sapper

skills: Suicide Attack, Create Propaganda pamflet,
Video making in BlizzTube Video Garrison

No problems with that.

[Letdown]

For the people going "LOL OMFG THIS IS FFXIV LOLOLOLOL"

FFXIV isn't the first to pitch that arc. It's a long staple of fantasy fiction -- you could even argue that Lord of the Rings has some of this, even if it didn't manifest really until The Similarion.

The Wheel of Time definitely has a similar arc.

So no, this arc isn't unique to WoW, but it also isn't unique to FFXIV. If you're going to go "LOL OMG COPYING," at least know the history of what you're making an accusation of.

[Enthralled]

So no, this arc isn't unique to WoW, but it also isn't unique to FFXIV. If you're going to go "LOL OMG COPYING," at least know the history of what you're making an accusation of.

Agreed -- people don't know their tropes.

[Deleted]

No problems with that.

Are you ready to grind rep with "Gaesh" and "Goblinic State of Tanaris and Ratchet" ?

[Zeek Daniels]

didn't do anything? What about working for Kil'jeaden, continuing to turn otcs into fel orcs, housing Teron Gorefiend in Black Temple, stripping Outland of water sources to control the land, betraying Akama? No matter how you look, Illidan has much to answer for, no matter what his goals ultimately were

If by continuing to work for kil'jeaden you mean secretly build and army to fight for him while also apeasing him every once in a while and sending troops to infiltrate and destroy legion controlled worlds, then sure. Hes working for Kil'Jeaden.

He only worked for him to hide his true intentions. He wants the legion gone forever. But he cant do that if hes dead now can he, which is exactly what would have happen had he gone after them un-prepared.

[Jessicka]

He doesnt need a redemption story, he never did anything wrong.

People have this misconception that DH are evil. DH have shown themselves to be exceptionally morale. They made massive sacrifices, why? For the good of all. Those who seek power for power are chastised.

Everything Illidan did, he did to get into Tyrande's knickers. That's not selfless, given a) she's his brother's wife, and b) she isn't a trophy to be won.

- - - Updated - - -

Illidan isn't evil. Even in TBC we werent really given good reason to fight him. Despite his title being "the betrayer", his history has been nothing but getting betrayed himself.

Err what? He did every bit as much double crossing as he was double crossed.

[Valrok]

Are you kidding me? This is the biggest trolling I've seen in awhile. Photoshop is an amazing thing.

wait you think this is shopped?

notsureifsrs

they're my screenshots and they are very real

[Florena]

You and I interpreted BC completely different. IMO Azeroths forces screwed the fuck up because of their own greed for outlands resources. You dont need the new lore to tell you Illidan got screwed over and didnt do anything to warrant us attacking his forces, It was all Kel thalas and kil jeaden.

Also i never said illdian can do no wrong. Hes done plenty wrong depending on your point of view. But hes always done it for two reasons. Gain more power for himself, and to save the people he loves.

I dont think this is a redemption arc, Arthas needs a redemption arc. He did messed up shit killing millions of people because hes sick and twisted. Illidan doesnt need a redemption arc and i dont see this as that. I see this as illidan yet again gaining more power for himself although not in a place he would normally seek it to defeat the enemy hes been after four thousands of years.

No redemption, just closure.

I don't know if the Illidan novel retcons any of this, but in BC killing Iliidan wasn't about the horde and alliance wanting his resources but instead about freeing the enslaved Broken. That's what the quest line was all about leading up to Illidan's death.

I don't get why people ask 'why did we kill Illidan.' If you do the BC attunement quests and the BT quests after you have your answer. Now, you can argue that freeing the Ashtongue from slavery wasn't good enough or that we didn't think things through, but A. our characters don't know Illidan's likely retconned in aspirations to strike against the Legion (considering he was supposed to be crazy in BC, having gone mad after losing to Arthas and even shouting out that even Arthas couldn't beat him in one of the SMV quests), and B. the reason is still there even if you don't like it. Which is fair but it WAS there.

- - - Updated - - -

You mean exactly what Jaina wanted to do at the end of SoO, but Varian decided against?

I still don't know why he decided against it. His vote is what spared the orcs after the Second War, so you'd think he would understand how risky just leaving them be is.

Varian gives his reasoning after you beat Garrosh in SoO. A big part of it is that conquering the rest of the horde would cost the lives of a lot of alliance, and then actually governing them afterwards would be a tremendous challenge not likely to end well.

[SirCowdog]

wait you think this is shopped?

notsureifsrs

they're my screenshots and they are very real

If it's not shopped it's the biggest fake out from Blizzard ever.

[Valrok]

If it's not shopped it's the biggest fake out from Blizzard ever.

well.... it isn't shopped and others have said it's the same plot point as the Illidan book

[Florena]

well.... it isn't shopped and others have said it's the same plot point as the Illidan book

I didn't say the screenshots weren't legit and don't see how they have anything to do with what I posted. I was simply elaborating on why we killed Illidan in BC, which has nothing to do with anything in Legion.

[Valrok]

I didn't say the screenshots weren't legit and don't see how they have anything to do with what I posted. I was simply elaborating on why we killed Illidan in BC, which has nothing to do with anything in Legion.

I quoted the wrong post my bad

[Enthralled]

Everything Illidan did, he did to get into Tyrande's knickers.

That hasn't been true since the era of the War of the Ancients.

[procne]

If by continuing to work for kil'jeaden you mean secretly build and army to fight for him while also apeasing him every once in a while and sending troops to infiltrate and destroy legion controlled worlds, then sure. Hes working for Kil'Jeaden.

He only worked for him to hide his true intentions. He wants the legion gone forever. But he cant do that if hes dead now can he, which is exactly what would have happen had he gone after them un-prepared.

I didn't say "continuing to work for Kil'jeaden". I said "continuing to turn orcs into fel orcs". That alone warrants both horde and alliance attacking him.
I also said "working for Kil'jeaden", which happened during Frozen Throne

It doesn't matter what his true intentions were (which, btw, is funny talk about seeing how Blizz tries to retcon a lot of stuff and the story they make up now didn't exist at all in TBC. If people suddenly have problems with why TBC happened at all then Blizz will have to invent some more explanations), even less that he didn't bother to present them or talk with anyone. He committed several crimes and it's nothing strange both Horde and Alliance saw him as a threat.

[Zeek Daniels]

I didn't say "continuing to work for Kil'jeaden". I said "continuing to turn orcs into fel orcs". That alone warrants both horde and alliance attacking him.
I also said "working for Kil'jeaden", which happened during Frozen Throne

It doesn't matter what his true intentions were (which, btw, is funny talk about seeing how Blizz tries to retcon a lot of stuff and the story they make up now didn't exist at all in TBC. If people suddenly have problems with why TBC happened at all then Blizz will have to invent some more explanations), even less that he didn't bother to present them or talk with anyone. He committed several crimes and it's nothing strange both Horde and Alliance saw him as a threat.

Again, Illidan is making an army. The Fel Orcs were a part of that army. The Alliance and Horde took out the source of that armys power. TBC doesnt give a whole lot of reasoning behind what illidan was doing. We know he was using outlands to build an army. But Azeroth took him and his armies out b4 those armies could be used for good or for evil. There is no retcon. Its called filling in the blanks.

[Leyre]

you guys think Tyrande will ditch Malfurion in favor or Med'Illidan???