So i tried retri on ptr and fu***** sucks

[Aeluron Lightsong]

agreed, anyone whos complaining that is "sucks" is either looking at pure numbers ( typically against broken specs like enh and assassination rogues as examples, while also themselves who cannot play the spec for their life) and saying it sucks. They then rebuttle with stupid arguments like downtime (which we have just as much if not less than live downtime according to simcraft and personally i dont see anything at level 110 either) or how we are balanced around people dying in fights to do damage (just a bonus not our balance) or how we need a crutch like GBoMs on 3 people to do any damage (again , we are not balanced around 3. 1-2 maybe but not 3 as stated by blizzard themselves. and this damage is not even a large sum of our damage anyhow)

what people are REALLY complaining about is how we lost tools in our kit that were problematic for our balance. things like all ranged damage as a melee spec, high uptime high boost of speed increase, or our gimmicks of always having cooldowns up(which meant out dps without them was shit)

all this complaining can result in knee jerk changes which could destroy the spec. The last time something like this happened was in cata and they changed everything a month before launch without any tests.... we all know how cata ret turned out.

Our mastery was changed, not our base mechanics and such. Not surprising YOU keep defending this since Alpha.

[Deleted]

agreed, anyone whos complaining that is "sucks" is either looking at pure numbers ( typically against broken specs like enh and assassination rogues as examples, while also themselves who cannot play the spec for their life) and saying it sucks. They then rebuttle with stupid arguments like downtime (which we have just as much if not less than live downtime according to simcraft and personally i dont see anything at level 110 either) or how we are balanced around people dying in fights to do damage (just a bonus not our balance) or how we need a crutch like GBoMs on 3 people to do any damage (again , we are not balanced around 3. 1-2 maybe but not 3 as stated by blizzard themselves. and this damage is not even a large sum of our damage anyhow)

what people are REALLY complaining about is how we lost tools in our kit that were problematic for our balance. things like all ranged damage as a melee spec, high uptime high boost of speed increase, or our gimmicks of always having cooldowns up(which meant out dps without them was shit)

all this complaining can result in knee jerk changes which could destroy the spec. The last time something like this happened was in cata and they changed everything a month before launch without any tests.... we all know how cata ret turned out.

I sit on ptr for over 30 minutes, trying retri. Totally not fan. I really wanted to catch the feel of it.
What puts me off are the animations, and the loss of randomness also the loss of the feel semi range class.
So that is why it sucks.

[Morally Grey Storm]

agreed, anyone whos complaining that is "sucks" is either looking at pure numbers ( typically against broken specs like enh and assassination rogues as examples, while also themselves who cannot play the spec for their life) and saying it sucks.

or either those who don't like what they are seeing.

[kurama]

I don´t like it too.

MoP ret was great.

[judgementofantonidas]

anaxie. what do you think of ret in less than an hundred words and no forum ban?

[Deleted]

It seems fine, It has a clear rotational goal and it's a little less braindead than live where you literally mash everything that lights up and do ok damage.

[Morally Grey Storm]

It seems fine, It has a clear rotational goal and it's a little less braindead than live where you literally mash everything that lights up and do ok damage.

I do like these statements very much.
You can mash everything that lights up and do ok damage, or get your shit together, learn rotation, know priorities and git gud.

You can mash everything in Legion just as good.
There is no difference.

[photas]

As someone who has mained a paladin, mostly ret, since Wrath, should I be looking for a new class? I have heard nothing good about Ret in Legion. My main alt is usually a shaman and enhance seems to be getting a lot of love.

I am honestly so torn right now and have no idea what Ill be doing in legion. Maybe even just main Holy Paladin until they fix ret.

[nyc81991]

They removed / changed more than they needed to and not all in a good way. Bringing back Divine Storm proc's would go a long way in making the baseline rotation feel better.

[Logwyn]

As someone who has mained a paladin, mostly ret, since Wrath, should I be looking for a new class? I have heard nothing good about Ret in Legion. My main alt is usually a shaman and enhance seems to be getting a lot of love.

I am honestly so torn right now and have no idea what Ill be doing in legion. Maybe even just main Holy Paladin until they fix ret.

I'm tempted to just to play my pally as Prot and prot the whole time. If the doing damage in the world while questing, etc is as good as a dpsers. Havn't tested. eh.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It seems fine, It has a clear rotational goal and it's a little less braindead than live where you literally mash everything that lights up and do ok damage.

It's as *braindead* as it was in WoD. There isn't that much difference but believe waht you want.

did OP play with an artifact weapon with all traits unlocked?

Ashbringer doesn't really change the rotation or add much to the gameplay. Most of it is just damage buffs.

[psiko74]

did OP play with an artifact weapon with all traits unlocked?

[TheDestinatus]

I love this meme... Expresses my opinion on this the best.

Hahaha, this basically sums up the entire Legion experience.

[Infernix]

Alright, so this thread managed to have people saying that 7.0 Legion Ret is horrible, okay, the exact same as now, and better than ever. All at once.

[Veyne]

Alright, so this thread managed to have people saying that 7.0 Legion Ret is horrible, okay, the exact same as now, and better than ever. All at once.

You'll pretty much get the same reaction from every spec.

Personally, of all the class changes they've made in Legion, i think Retribution is on the For the Better side of the spectrum. I've personally found Retribution very dull to play for YEARS, but from what I've played on Beta, it's extremely satisfying to me.

[Felrane]

did OP play with an artifact weapon with all traits unlocked?

The traits do nothing other then increase passive damage or give you damage reductions. Ret stays just as clunky at 110. We lost healing and utility and movement speed on top of it. Its just not fun to play anymore but BOY IS IT FLASHY! O and ASHBRINGER!

PvE you feel like a turtle that can never keep up with the group and when you finally start to dps you have ramp up. If you want to aoe you have to change 3 talents to do MEH aoe that also has a ramp time. Last few PTR builds have helped smooth out the rotation somewhat.

PvP you just stand behind walls till someone decides to attack you if they decide to run you cant do anything about it. Since every class other then warlocks have some sort of mobility you find yourself standing around. No more mid-range attacks to build power. No more sacs or freedoms or BOPs. You just take it in the ass trying to build holy power hoping they will stop moving for long enough for you to do any sort of damage. People will argue that its not balanced for 1v1 which is fine but why would you bring a ret that has nothing other then damage 20% of the time when you could just bring ANY other melee that have the same damage with 100% up-time.

Im going to miss my Retribution paladin if I do play him he is going to stay prot most if not all of the time. Considering it does everything better then Ret anyways.

[Consiliem]

The traits do nothing other then increase passive damage or give you damage reductions. Ret stays just as clunky at 110. We lost healing and utility and movement speed on top of it. Its just not fun to play anymore but BOY IS IT FLASHY! O and ASHBRINGER!

PvE you feel like a turtle that can never keep up with the group and when you finally start to dps you have ramp up. If you want to aoe you have to change 3 talents to do MEH aoe that also has a ramp time. Last few PTR builds have helped smooth out the rotation somewhat.

PvP you just stand behind walls till someone decides to attack you if they decide to run you cant do anything about it. Since every class other then warlocks have some sort of mobility you find yourself standing around. No more mid-range attacks to build power. No more sacs or freedoms or BOPs. You just take it in the ass trying to build holy power hoping they will stop moving for long enough for you to do any sort of damage. People will argue that its not balanced for 1v1 which is fine but why would you bring a ret that has nothing other then damage 20% of the time when you could just bring ANY other melee that have the same damage with 100% up-time.

Im going to miss my Retribution paladin if I do play him he is going to stay prot most if not all of the time. Considering it does everything better then Ret anyways.

Respectfully, this is... inaccurate, to say the least. While there are passive Artifact Traits, the first golden dragon trait everyone will be going for makes Wake of Ashes hit incredibly hard and generate an instant 5 Holy Power. The Divine Tempest perk is minor from a gameplay perspective sure, biggest change there is making sure you don't shoot it into the next unpulled mob pack. I'm not particularly fond of Echo of the Highlord, seems underwhelming and I don't like the random floating Ashbringer. But Ashes to Ashes makes our rotation and overall dps feel much better.

The only thing I can figure you mean by "ramp up time" is the initial build up of HP at the beginning of a fight before your first Judgement, which can be done in a single global. Also, WoA does a nice job of breaking up the rotation by essentially giving you an A-B-A-B style of rotational phases; one which utilizes WoA to refill HP after you initially dump into a Judgment window, and one without the refill, and they more or less alternate.

The talent issue you're talking about is very much just the design goal that Blizzard has taken this entire expansion into- this isn't a Ret only thing. They want talent choices to matter, and the only way to do that is to have different talents shine in different areas. If they all do the same thing, (most) everyone will follow a forum post or SimCraft parse and just pick the highest dps.

If you want the option to swap talents, just keep a stock of the new tomes, the option is completely available to you. You can also mix and match single target and aoe talent choices for an all-around setup. Sure, you're not as strong in purely aoe or purely single target situations as you could be, but you can strike a balance and be a "jack of all trades" with quite a few build choices.

And, finally, PvP-- melee aren't designed to be on top of ranged 24/7, but between Blessing of Freedom, Blessing of Protection, Divine Shield, Hand of Hindrance, Hammer of Justice, Repentance, Divine Steed, and/or Seal of Light, we're far from immobile. We might not be the most mobile class, but we're not meant to be, nor do we need to be. I'm not sure why you think we don't have Blessing of Freedom or Blessing of Protection, though, because we absolutely do.

Hope this helps clear up any confusion, let me know if you have any other questions!

[Morally Grey Storm]

Respectfully, this is... inaccurate, to say the least. While there are passive Artifact Traits, the first golden dragon trait everyone will be going for makes Wake of Ashes hit incredibly hard and generate an instant 5 Holy Power.

it doesn't change a thing about how we are playing the spec.
So, disrespectfully, you are the one inaccurate.

And, finally, PvP-- melee aren't designed to be on top of ranged 24/7, but between Blessing of Freedom, Blessing of Protection, Divine Shield, Hand of Hindrance, Hammer of Justice, Repentance, Divine Steed, and/or Seal of Light, we're far from immobile.

what does this list of abilities(few of which are mutually exclusive or borderline unusable) has to do with our mobility?
Are you speaking out of your posterior?
Don't

[Ashelorh]

Title of this thread is a very funny and true statement. It fucking sucks.

As someone who has mained a paladin, mostly ret, since Wrath, should I be looking for a new class? I have heard nothing good about Ret in Legion. My main alt is usually a shaman and enhance seems to be getting a lot of love.

I am honestly so torn right now and have no idea what Ill be doing in legion. Maybe even just main Holy Paladin until they fix ret.

Try it. According to the poll I made on here 1 out of 4 people like it. Odds aren't in your favor but who knows.

The spec does have some real issues though. Target swapping is going to be a pain. The fact that so much of our damage comes from judgement window means that if for whatever reason you lose uptime on your target (boss mechanic, getting kited) while it has the judgement debuff, you will miss out on a lot of damage, and for balancing reasons, we won't do much damage outside of judgement window. The "utility", if you can even call it that, is extremely boring, a fire and forget buff that you put on someone and forget about it for the rest of the fight, which will cut into our damage for balancing reasons, and piss poor mobility, which unless Legion's raid design changes things a lot, will make it significantly harder for rets to avoid mechanics, and will make rets a complete bore of holding down the W key until you reach you target in PVP.
Doubt we'll see big changes at this point. This is what we have for 7.0 at the very least.

[Darchow]

I have been maining ret Paladin since TBC, and now for the frist time I am considering maining a different class (Probably Mage). I hate the way Ret plays, I hate they removed (and keep removing) so many iconic spells. I want mu Auras, Seals, Excorsim. I don't feel a Paladin anymore, this is NOT the class I picked all these years ago.

And, I absolutely hate the new animations, all of them.