No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Bun-Bun]

Your posts about the subject: http://www.mmo-champion.com/search.p...rchid=33998995 (cant link searches it seems - advanced search this thread for your username)

The only post with any links: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...3#post41034703

The links themselves:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17597939626#5
http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/22/864...mo-pc-blizzard
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/198...enor-6-10-2015

Got it. Solid articles right here.
Now i may be wrong and maaaaybe ive missed something, but you're lacking evidence here.
Im not ignoring anything.

Im happy to keep going on about the current state of flying, and how it affects the game negatively, but its come down to one side providing numbers and examples, and the other making them up.
The only true losers here - those who just want to fly in the air without regards to any progression.

I have linked way more than that and provided numbers myself. And what do you mean "solid" articles? That is information direct from Blizzard.

You have and continue to ignore information presented to you that you don't agree with.

Everyone loses here. Pissed off customers leaving means less players in game, less money to blizz which ultimately negatively affects everyone.

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Its very important that you do the content as it is designed.

Why is it so important content be consumed "exactly" as intended? Still don't have a single answer from anyone on this.

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Dont you wanna have flying on raids to skip trash too?

Raids are different. Don't see anyone here asking for flying in content normally other wised not allowed to fly in.

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Flying is senseless within the eatrly months of expac. or until the last content patch is released.

In your opinion, which appears to be a minority one.

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Source is the fact that 5 million players still continued playing after the Twitter or Reddit announcement of no flight.

The problem with this argument you keep bring up, despite being refuted each time, is that players thought flight was still coming. The majority of players were ignorant to Blizzards experiment and honestly thought flight was coming in the next patch.

Do it all over and announce from the beginning no flight.

And PS. 5 million players is half of what there was at the beginning of WoD.

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It was you that kept trying to widen the discussion, basically because you don't actually read what anyone says.

I just pop in here to see what nonsense you are all arguing about this week - It quite funny watching people sink hours of their lives into something so trivial as flying in a game that offers less depth than Minecraft. It shows a complete lack of perspective in life.

I don't really care about it at all but I will call out bollocks when I see it.

The entire game is trivial and doesn't over much more than Minecraft.

So what does that say about yourself?

[Eapoe]

I have linked way more than that and provided numbers myself. And what do you mean "solid" articles? That is information direct from Blizzard.

You have and continue to ignore information presented to you that you don't agree with.

Everyone loses here. Pissed off customers leaving means less players in game, less money to blizz which ultimately negatively affects everyone.

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Why is it so important content be consumed "exactly" as intended? Still don't have a single answer from anyone on this.

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Raids are different. Don't see anyone here asking for flying in content normally other wised not allowed to fly in.

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In your opinion, which appears to be a minority one.

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The problem with this argument you keep bring up, despite being refuted each time, is that players thought flight was still coming. The majority of players were ignorant to Blizzards experiment and honestly thought flight was coming in the next patch.

Do it all over and announce from the beginning no flight.

And PS. 5 million players is half of what there was at the beginning of WoD.

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The entire game is trivial and doesn't over much more than Minecraft.

So what does that say about yourself?

You have linked articles and then told people to read between the lines and see the hidden messages, to which there are none and you just make up.
It's important to consume content exactly as its intended, because that's how it's designed to be played. Blizzard gives many different options to do the content, flight just isn't part of it.
You are currently asking to fly in content it's not normally designed for (at this time).
Opinion is opinion, not sure how you conclude its the minority one though.
You saying the arguement was refuted is very laughable. As stated, 5 million stayed AFTER the no flight announcement. Also, at the time there was roughly 7-8 million still playing before the announcement, so the drop off was only 3 million total during that time (which was also after the beginning of WoD when we started seeing numbers dropping off, not just during the no flight reveal). You've refuted nothing except your complete lack of reading comprehension.
It says he just dropped by to put in his 2 cents on the matter.

[wing5wong]

I have linked way more than that and provided numbers myself. And what do you mean "solid" articles? That is information direct from Blizzard.

Except you havent (again, unless i missed something in 8 pages of posts from you - search yourself, il be happy to read it)
The articles are 'solid' because all they say is flying is restricted for a reason, and they are gonig to allow flying again at a later patch after they feel you've done enough to experience everything. Are you reading something that I'm not? care to quote it?
The polygon article.... has no relevance?

You have and continue to ignore information presented to you that you don't agree with.

And il continue to disagree with information that has no evidence behind it outside of your own opinions and negative feelings towards this implementation.

Everyone loses here. Pissed off customers leaving means less players in game, less money to blizz which ultimately negatively affects everyone.

Clearly - flying had such a negative impact that they decided to go with a different model in legion.
Wait, they didnt. Hmmmm

Why is it so important content be consumed "exactly" as intended? Still don't have a single answer from anyone on this.

Because its their game. Relevant quote (from you, no less)

You have and continue to ignore information presented to you that you don't agree with.

In your opinion, which appears to be a minority one.

Minority? where? in this thread?
There is very little large scale feedback about flying anywhere else.

The problem with this argument you keep bring up, despite being refuted each time, is that players thought flight was still coming. The majority of players were ignorant to Blizzards experiment and honestly thought flight was coming in the next patch.

Do it all over and announce from the beginning no flight.

And PS. 5 million players is half of what there was at the beginning of WoD.

You make it sound like blizzard tries to trick people into maintaining their subs with flight as a carrot.

[WowIsDead64]

Lyrical digression: this discussion seems to be dying and I hate to kill discussions via my ultimate arguments, lol.

What I hate the most about Blizzard: they seem to try to mix all kinds of players in one pot, which is wrong. Yeah, they want to cater to all players at once. Some want exploration, some want immersion, some want competition, some want to do their dailies, some want to have a crowd of other players around. But WHY ONE PIECE OF CONTENT SHOULD CATER TO ALL OF THEM AT ONCE??? I don't understand. Cuz their demands are contradictory and even mutually exclusive in most cases. For example. While reading some books and articles about player archetypes, I realized, that I'm 50% "Achiever" and 50% "RPer". I'm "RPer" because I need customization(I want my characters to reflect my personality), escapism (I don't want real life's problems to be brought to game), RPing (I want my characters to identify myself), immersion (I always imagine, that it's me, who experience the game, not my character), fantasy (I want game to be my personal journey) and questing - is my favourite kind of content. Is Wow RPG in a first place? Yeah. So, I guess, I play the right game and players, who say opposite - are wrong. And I need immersion too. Blizzard say, that they remove flying exactly due to lack of immersion. Yeah... And they are wrong. Why? Because it isn't flying, that kills my immersion the most - it's "Socializers" and "Killers". Blizzard want outdoor content to be immersive, so "Explorers" and "RPers" would like it, yeah, but at the same time they also want to cater to players, who like to have crowd of other players around and to have competition in outdoor content. And this two things COMPLETELY CONTRADICT IMMERSION. It's crowd of other players around and competition for quest objectives - are two things, that kill my immersion the most - NOT FLYING. I want outdoor content to be MY PERSONAL JOURNEY, I can enjoy and experience the way, I prefer. And flying actually helps to deal with this terrible content design and to make it more enjoyable. That's why I say - Blizzard are stupid, cuz they fix, what isn't broken, and kill content for half of their players as the result, via trying to do exactly the opposite - to "fix" it for them. And they reached their goal - I'm "Achiever"+"RPer" and I won't buy Legion, cuz outdoor content, that has always been intended exactly for "RPers" (cuz "Killers" have their BGs, "Socializers" have their dungeons and raids, and quests - is all, I have) - is completely dead for me.

[MatadorMedia]

My main activity in the Legion Beta has been trying to climb as high as possible in the zones using the Demon Hunter double jump and glide (and tank leap helps, too!). There are some areas blocked with invisible walls, and I made it halfway up the corrupted world tree before being removed by a debug. Anyway, the point is I'm having fun just jumping around, and it would be rendered pointless if I could just fly up there.

[wing5wong]

Lyrical digression: this discussion seems to be dying and I hate to kill discussions via my ultimate arguments, lol.

Snip

I agree with you on the different content for different folks.
It's hard to do something that suits everyone and everyone finds enjoyable though (not an excuse). Hopefully legion builds on it, or future expacs. I think legion is a starting point though

[WowIsDead64]

I agree with you on the different content for different folks.
It's hard to do something that suits everyone and everyone finds enjoyable though (not an excuse). Hopefully legion builds on it, or future expacs. I think legion is a starting point though

This is, what I try to say. Dungeons and raids were intended for "Socializers", arenas and BGs - for "Killers", terrain and lore - for "Explorers", quests - for "RPers", collecting mounts/pets/gear/achievements - for "Achievers". Every player had something to do in game. If you were doing wrong kind of content - you were told "it isn't for you". And at some point Blizzard all of a sudden realized, that they can't produce enough content for all players. So they started to "share" content between players. That's, how LFD and LFR have been born. That's, how outdoor content started to change back in Cata and especially in MOP and WOD. And now we have tiny 2x2m questing zones, with crowds of players and crowds mobs, respawning every 10 seconds, half of mobs being elites, so you can't do them without group and experience lack of them, which literally forces you into groups, secondary objectives, you have to compete for with other players and YOU CAN'T EVEN AVOID ALL THAT CRAP VIA FLYING. But... How about...my JOURNEY? I don't have one. Yeah... I still can level new characters in a dead old locations. But Blizzard try to kill this content either - via CRZ. But paying sub for obsolete content - is nonsense! I WANT TO PLAY ON BROKEN ISLES AT RELEASE DAY. I realize, that it's too late to change something in a way, content is designed. But we still have easy solution - simply make Pathfinder COMPLETABLE PER ZONE and I WILL BUY LEGION.

[Maneo]

My main activity in the Legion Beta has been trying to climb as high as possible in the zones using the Demon Hunter double jump and glide (and tank leap helps, too!). There are some areas blocked with invisible walls, and I made it halfway up the corrupted world tree before being removed by a debug. Anyway, the point is I'm having fun just jumping around, and it would be rendered pointless if I could just fly up there.

That is great for demon hunter but no other class offers that level of mobility.

[Eapoe]

This is, what I try to say. Dungeons and raids were intended for "Socializers", arenas and BGs - for "Killers", terrain and lore - for "Explorers", quests - for "RPers", collecting mounts/pets/gear/achievements - for "Achievers". Every player had something to do in game. If you were doing wrong kind of content - you were told "it isn't for you". And at some point Blizzard all of a sudden realized, that they can't produce enough content for all players. So they started to "share" content between players. That's, how LFD and LFR have been born. That's, how outdoor content started to change back in Cata and especially in MOP and WOD. And now we have tiny 2x2m questing zones, with crowds of players and crowds mobs, respawning every 10 seconds, half of mobs being elites, so you can't do them without group and experience lack of them, which literally forces you into groups, secondary objectives, you have to compete for with other players and YOU CAN'T EVEN AVOID ALL THAT CRAP VIA FLYING. But... How about...my JOURNEY? I don't have one. Yeah... I still can level new characters in a dead old locations. But Blizzard try to kill this content either - via CRZ. But paying sub for obsolete content - is nonsense! I WANT TO PLAY ON BROKEN ISLES AT RELEASE DAY. I realize, that it's too late to change something in a way, content is designed. But we still have easy solution - simply make Pathfinder COMPLETABLE PER ZONE and I WILL BUY LEGION.

So, you want flight to enable you to bypass mobs in an area that you are not geared for so you can do quests that you want to do but don't want to take the time getting geared for them? That's pretty much all I took from this post.
You are trying to act like Blizzard wanting people to have the ability to see all the content (they pay for, the players) and experience the game as a whole and not have to miss out on big lore points, is a bad thing. CRZ/LFD were made with the intentions of people that don't see/do things for various reasons (no time/anti social/etc), to now be able to see that content and experience the game as a whole. If they still chose not to do those things, they still have that choice, but at least now they have the option where before they didn't. Yes, those things have caused problems, but they've done far more good than bad, no matter how much people tell you otherwise.
The respawned rates were changed to allow players to be able to complete areas without having to wait 5 minutes to kill 1 mob that has a chance to drop a quest item. As far as 1/2 these mobs being elites and forcing you to group up, what? Are you talking about the specific daily quest zones that are Group Quests? Didn't you just say (in the post I'm responding to) that "content wasn't for you," and now you are saying you're upset you can't do all the content? All these elites you mention is just complete exaggeration and you know it. All of the solo areas have them thru the area, but all are easily avoidable. The areas with almost nothing but elites is designed FOR groups.
What are these secondary objectives you speak of that you can't skip with flight? I'm assuming you are talking about the items you can pick up off the ground, or the cages you can open to free prisoners, or any of the things you can fly over almost every mob and then fly down and click said objects.
Don't exactly get your point of how CRZ killed "dead old zones." Are you saying that in a world with highly populated mobs and short respawned timers that CRZ put so many players in those zones with you that you can't complete anything?
Your entire post is filled with criticisms of how the game used to work and how it was much better, and then go on to show that those things still exist and how it's bad.

[WowIsDead64]

So, you want flight to enable you to bypass mobs in an area that you are not geared for so you can do quests that you want to do but don't want to take the time getting geared for them? That's pretty much all I took from this post.
You are trying to act like Blizzard wanting people to have the ability to see all the content (they pay for, the players) and experience the game as a whole and not have to miss out on big lore points, is a bad thing. CRZ/LFD were made with the intentions of people that don't see/do things for various reasons (no time/anti social/etc), to now be able to see that content and experience the game as a whole. If they still chose not to do those things, they still have that choice, but at least now they have the option where before they didn't. Yes, those things have caused problems, but they've done far more good than bad, no matter how much people tell you otherwise.
The respawned rates were changed to allow players to be able to complete areas without having to wait 5 minutes to kill 1 mob that has a chance to drop a quest item. As far as 1/2 these mobs being elites and forcing you to group up, what? Are you talking about the specific daily quest zones that are Group Quests? Didn't you just say (in the post I'm responding to) that "content wasn't for you," and now you are saying you're upset you can't do all the content? All these elites you mention is just complete exaggeration and you know it. All of the solo areas have them thru the area, but all are easily avoidable. The areas with almost nothing but elites is designed FOR groups.
What are these secondary objectives you speak of that you can't skip with flight? I'm assuming you are talking about the items you can pick up off the ground, or the cages you can open to free prisoners, or any of the things you can fly over almost every mob and then fly down and click said objects.
Don't exactly get your point of how CRZ killed "dead old zones." Are you saying that in a world with highly populated mobs and short respawned timers that CRZ put so many players in those zones with you that you can't complete anything?
Your entire post is filled with criticisms of how the game used to work and how it was much better, and then go on to show that those things still exist and how it's bad.

Don't put words, I haven't said, into my mouth. I haven't said, that I want to do content, that I'm not geared for.

I come to Kra'nak, cuz I have to do daily Appexis quest. Daily quests are MANDATORY, if I want to be effective (I'm "Achiever", remember?), as they grant half of daily rewards and they're the only way to grind reps - without them grind would take 2-3x more time and won't be worth doing. If there wouldn't be such daily quest - I would never do locations, like Kra'nak. But Blizzard design Appexis daily system exactly for purpose of forcing players to stack in one location to increase "interaction" between them and due to "bring the location - not the player" concept, that forces you to do specified location, no matter what, in order to show, that it's used by players and it's development - isn't waste of devs' resources (cuz otherwise all players would do Docks and Zeth'gol, lol). I.e. Blizzard could design quest system the way, that would spread players between several locations evenly, how it should be, but they intentionally do the opposite. This location is 2x2m and half of mobs are elites. I come there and see...freaking crowd of players, cuz all players do exactly the same daily quest. All mobs are dead and respawn rate is too low - respawn rate have to be respawning every 10 seconds, like it was in Cata, to be enough, but it would be nonsense.

So I have 3 options: 1) To camp respawn spots, which means idling = not actually playing the game 2) To run around and try to pull respawns from other players' hands, which isn't immersive kind of gameplay - I simply hate competition 3) To find a group and kill elites instead = forced socialization, so I don't do it principally, cuz outdoor content is intended for solo players, i.e. if I would want to do group content - I would do 5ppls or LFR. So, in any case I have to waste too much time, nerves and brain cells on this content, which makes it not worth doing. Why flying is so important in this case? It grants me some freedom of choice. If this spot of location is too overcrowded - I can easily move to another. If whole location is too overcrowded - I can instantly move to another location. If I have daily quest, that blocks other locations (stupid mechanic, that forces you into specified location to intentionally overcrowd it) - then at least I can fly from Docks to Front and back in order to search for rares for Unseen Influence (which also quest, that "isn't for me", but I'm forced to do it due to mandatory reward). If there is no other options and I HAVE TO to this specified location - at least flying is fast enough to minimize "circling" travel time and grant feeling, that at least I play the game - not idle or waste all time on circling around location.

I.e. with flying at least I feel, that I actually play the game - not wasting my time.

And don't tell me, that something is optional and I don't have to do it - it would be hypocrisy. Because it's actually you, no flyers, constantly tell us, that you don't have self-control and that flying is mandatory, cuz you have to be effective, and that you're forced to play the game the way, you don't like. Same here. May be some content and rewards aren't for me, but I also feel, that it's mandatory to be effective and that rewards are mandatory for me. Don't tell me, that I don't have to do all daily Appexis dailies, cuz some of them are "group ones". With dailies I obtain one item once in 2-3 days, so it takes month or 1.5 to get them all. Without dailies it would be one item once a week - completely not worth doing. It would be easier to do LFR then. And I also have alts, I want to gear up too... So, it would be hypocrisy to tell me, that I do content the way, that isn't intended for me, and that I don't have self-control.

So what? Blizzard intentionally don't make content enjoyable without flying. I don't see any improvements in Legion - same world quests, that will force whole server into one 2x2m location. And they remove flying, which makes this content completely unbearable. Because they want to intentionally force me to do it this way - to stack myself on the top of another 100500 players and kill my fantasy and immersion as the result, cuz it isn't journey - it's city at rush hour and I come into game exactly to take some rest from this IRL-crap. It's their choice to kill their game this way, cuz I won't do it this way.

[Feel The Power]

Amazing that anything more or new can be said about why people want or don't want flying, after almost 7500 posts.

[WowIsDead64]

Amazing that anything more or new can be said about why people want or don't want flying, after almost 7500 posts.

Majority of players simply can't explain, why no flying is bad for them - they say "I don't like it" and are accused in being subjective. I explain it simply: I'm "Achiever" + "RPer", outdoor content is actually intended to be "my" content, but it's being taken away from me and as the result I'm forced to do it like "Socializer", "Killer" or even "Explorer". Of course it isn't enjoyable for me to do it this way, but Blizzard don't listen - they cater to other players.

[Eapoe]

Don't put words, I haven't said, into my mouth. I haven't said, that I want to do content, that I'm not geared for.

I come to Kra'nak, cuz I have to do daily Appexis quest. Daily quests are MANDATORY, if I want to be effective (I'm "Achiever", remember?), as they grant half of daily rewards and they're the only way to grind reps - without them grind would take 2-3x more time and won't be worth doing. If there wouldn't be such daily quest - I would never do locations, like Kra'nak. But Blizzard design Appexis daily system exactly for purpose of forcing players to stack in one location to increase "interaction" between them and due to "bring the location - not the player" concept, that forces you to do specified location, no matter what, in order to show, that it's used by players and it's development - isn't waste of devs' resources (cuz otherwise all players would do Docks and Zeth'gol, lol). I.e. Blizzard could design quest system the way, that would spread players between several locations evenly, how it should be, but they intentionally do the opposite. This location is 2x2m and half of mobs are elites. I come there and see...freaking crowd of players, cuz all players do exactly the same daily quest. All mobs are dead and respawn rate is too low - respawn rate have to be respawning every 10 seconds, like it was in Cata, to be enough, but it would be nonsense.

So I have 3 options: 1) To camp respawn spots, which means idling = not actually playing the game 2) To run around and try to pull respawns from other players' hands, which isn't immersive kind of gameplay - I simply hate competition 3) To find a group and kill elites instead = forced socialization, so I don't do it principally, cuz outdoor content is intended for solo players, i.e. if I would want to do group content - I would do 5ppls or LFR. So, in any case I have to waste too much time, nerves and brain cells on this content, which makes it not worth doing. Why flying is so important in this case? It grants me some freedom of choice. If this spot of location is too overcrowded - I can easily move to another. If whole location is too overcrowded - I can instantly move to another location. If I have daily quest, that blocks other locations (stupid mechanic, that forces you into specified location to intentionally overcrowd it) - then at least I can fly from Docks to Front and back in order to search for rares for Unseen Influence (which also quest, that "isn't for me", but I'm forced to do it due to mandatory reward). If there is no other options and I HAVE TO to this specified location - at least flying is fast enough to minimize "circling" travel time and grant feeling, that at least I play the game - not idle or waste all time on circling around location.

I.e. with flying at least I feel, that I actually play the game - not wasting my time.

And don't tell me, that something is optional and I don't have to do it - it would be hypocrisy. Because it's actually you, no flyers, constantly tell us, that you don't have self-control and that flying is mandatory, cuz you have to be effective, and that you're forced to play the game the way, you don't like. Same here. May be some content and rewards aren't for me, but I also feel, that it's mandatory to be effective and that rewards are mandatory for me. Don't tell me, that I don't have to do all daily Appexis dailies, cuz some of them are "group ones". With dailies I obtain one item once in 2-3 days, so it takes month or 1.5 to get them all. Without dailies it would be one item once a week - completely not worth doing. It would be easier to do LFR then. And I also have alts, I want to gear up too... So, it would be hypocrisy to tell me, that I do content the way, that isn't intended for me, and that I don't have self-control.

So what? Blizzard intentionally don't make content enjoyable without flying. I don't see any improvements in Legion - same world quests, that will force whole server into one 2x2m location. And they remove flying, which makes this content completely unbearable. Because they want to intentionally force me to do it this way - to stack myself on the top of another 100500 players and kill my fantasy and immersion as the result, cuz it isn't journey - it's city at rush hour and I come into game exactly to take some rest from this IRL-crap. It's their choice to kill their game this way, cuz I won't do it this way.

No words made up from your previous post. You said you want flying so you can do certain content the day you hit max level. The only reason you would not be able to do those things is if you don't have the gear for it and you want flight to bypass things.
Also, Blizzard has made mob killing more accessible by sharing tags, which kind of negates your "wait for spawn" topic.
How is it hypocrisy to tell you you have the option? You point out we have the option to stick to the ground, we choose not to, that doesn't make it hypocritical to say you have a choice in how you spend your time in game. If you don't want to do group quests/dailies if you are that much of an antisocial/socially awkward person that you can't do those.
The game is made for people to do things they want to do and not do the things they don't. Want to run LFR but not do mythic, no issue. Want to do dailies but not group dailies, no issue. The thing is, if you want the rewards you talk about you need to do these things, plain and simple.
I've also played on medium and high pop servers, and I've never seen this magnitude of people you also try to point out. Maybe once an xpac launches and people level there's quite a few, but again, these disperse out, and never in the magnitude you speak of.
Your point is now just becoming exaggerations to try and prove a point.

[WowIsDead64]

Nice name for a guy who has made 1k posts on a wow fansite in just a year.

That's because I abandoned my old account due to thinking, that Wow playerbase became insane and hopeless, if it thought, that WOD - was THE BEST WOW XPACK EVER MADE, while I was thinking, that it was the worst one. I returned only when I realized, that I was right.

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No words made up from your previous post. You said you want flying so you can do certain content the day you hit max level. The only reason you would not be able to do those things is if you don't have the gear for it and you want flight to bypass things.
Also, Blizzard has made mob killing more accessible by sharing tags, which kind of negates your "wait for spawn" topic.
How is it hypocrisy to tell you you have the option? You point out we have the option to stick to the ground, we choose not to, that doesn't make it hypocritical to say you have a choice in how you spend your time in game. If you don't want to do group quests/dailies if you are that much of an antisocial/socially awkward person that you can't do those.
The game is made for people to do things they want to do and not do the things they don't. Want to run LFR but not do mythic, no issue. Want to do dailies but not group dailies, no issue. The thing is, if you want the rewards you talk about you need to do these things, plain and simple.
I've also played on medium and high pop servers, and I've never seen this magnitude of people you also try to point out. Maybe once an xpac launches and people level there's quite a few, but again, these disperse out, and never in the magnitude you speak of.
Your point is now just becoming exaggerations to try and prove a point.

Again you put words into my mouth. You assume too much. It takes one to know one - don't judge other people by yourself. Two things, that I've said: 1) I want to play xpack, when it's released - not after a year, when it's obsolete, cuz it kills all the excitement of entering new unexplored world 2) I want to do the same content, I was doing in previous xpack, cuz it's content, I enjoy - I don't want developers to assume, that I will enjoy other content, only due to xpack being fresh and new. I.e. if I don't enjoy PVP - I won't enjoy it, even if Blizzard would release 10 brand new BGs. I don't enjoy exploring, treasure hunting and jump puzzles, cuz I'm "Achiever" + "RPer" - and won't all of a sudden start to enjoy them, just because Blizzard released new leveling/outdoor content. May be I would be doing them, when I was completely new to Wow and hadn't decided, what content suited me yet, as it happened back in WotLK, when I was experimenting with different kinds of content, like PVP and PUG raids, but not now, when I've already settled on content, I enjoy. No need to force me to do them, just because you assumed, that I would like them, and spent resources on making them, as it happened with dailies back in MOP. If Blizzard think, that all players are "hidden explorers", who start to explore new content, once it's released - then they are wrong.

You assumed wrong. It's not about overgear, making game trivial. Don't try to make this strawman from me. I actually don't play on one character - once one character is ilvl695, I start doing content on other one from scratch. So I don't ask to overtrivilize content for me, as I've got used to my Mythic gear, one-shotting mobs, don't want to do content without it and want to have it on my mail box on day one instead.

[shonist]

That guy bun bun wasnt worthed my first post on this forum,

If i dont like a game how it is, why should i play it and complain about it?

its an mmorpg, if you have to FREE THE PRINCESS IN A CASTLE, and to do that, you have to beat the securitys, the guards, the "boss" why would you be able to fly to the top of the castle and land on the princess head, fast click her and mount out of there?

Dont complain about cant fly on legion,
be gracefull you can fly on the old content.

[Deleted]

That guy bun bun wasnt worthed my first post on this forum,

If i dont like a game how it is, why should i play it and complain about it?

its an mmorpg, if you have to FREE THE PRINCESS IN A CASTLE, and to do that, you have to beat the securitys, the guards, the "boss" why would you be able to fly to the top of the castle and land on the princess head, fast click her and mount out of there?

Dont complain about cant fly on legion,
be gracefull you can fly on the old content.

Easy way to achieve this via quest design:

Main Objective: Free the princess
2nd objective: Kill the bad guy holding her prisoner
3rd objective: Secure every level of the castle (= kill x mobs on every level of the castle)

You can only complete the main objective if you also finish the other objectives.

See, now the player will fight his way through the castle because your quest design tells him what to do to complete the quest.

Also, if you hold someone captive, you usually don't leave open balconys right beside where your captive could flee or be freed from. If you do so as a baddy, you deserve to be mocked by heroes who have some kind of means to get to such a balcony.

Edit: But if you want to do your players a favor, you could let them open a balcony after completing the quest, so they could fly away after the successful rescue. This also makes a great finishing scene, flying out into the dawn / dusk / starry night / whatever...

Honestly, as if Blizzard devs don't have any imagination left...

[Jaylock]

Easy way to achieve this via quest design:

Main Objective: Free the princess
2nd objective: Kill the bad guy holding her prisoner
3rd objective: Secure every level of the castle (= kill x mobs on every level of the castle)

You can only complete the main objective if you also finish the other objectives.

See, now the player will fight his way through the castle because your quest design tells him what to do to complete the quest.

Also, if you hold someone captive, you usually don't leave open balconys right beside where your captive could flee or be freed from. If you do so as a baddy, you deserve to be mocked by heroes who have some kind of means to get to such a balcony.

Edit: But if you want to do your players a favor, you could let them open a balcony after completing the quest, so they could fly away after the successful rescue. This also makes a great finishing scene, flying out into the dawn / dusk / starry night / whatever...

Honestly, as if Blizzard devs don't have any imagination left...

Ok, so now we have a more realistic scenario of Legion's open world. Example of a quest's Objectives:


-Kill 12 Demons around a Demon portal
-Locate the original Demon Portal and Shut it down
-Kill Master Demon Izual

So if this is a theoretical quest and players have flight enabled, the normal "MO" of players is to kill the 12 demons, mount and fly up in the air, look for the original portal from the air, fly straight to it avoiding any other demons that one would have to go through on a ground mount, click on the portal to shut it down, then mount up and fly high into the air again, and look for and locate Master Demon Izual, fly straight to him, kill him and mount up and fly back to quest giver.

Do you see the issue here? Having flight enabled completely mitigates the threat and obstacle of other demons in the way of the master portal and big boss demon you would have to kill for the quest. If you are grounded, the blizz developers could have some cool stuff happen that you as a player would have to either avoid, or engage to get to where you need to go.

I get that you and your pro-flight groupies will say "oh make interesting flying obstacles" but if there are lets say 100 quests in each zone, and 50 of them are out in the open world (the other 50 being in caves, buildings, etc) they cant just keep making "fel cannon" type obstacles to make it more challenging by flying around. That would annoy the player more than just being grounded would. (see orgrilla fel cannon daily quest in TBC). The point im making, and I think Blizzard has been very clear about is that flight obstacles is not the best game design to deliver interesting and varied quest and open world content.

Not every quest is a "princess castle quest" where you can have an indoor area that you need to kill 12 mobs on your way to the boss to save the princess. Many WoW esque quests are just open world areas that you need to do something in, and flying completely mitigates any danger or any specific quest mechanics that require ground only gameplay.

Think about WoD questing:

Just as a perfect example, questing through Talador is completely different when you can approach all the quests with a flying mount. I mean even some areas are vexing to figure out on a flying mount because you have to be in a specific location for the quest objectives to trigger and continue (ie, on a ground mount because you cant skip everything, you HAVE to move to the area where the quest asks you to go). Another example is in Shadowmoon Valley. The quest where you have to open the door at the shadowmoon burial grounds and it opens up like 5 quests... on a flying mount I ask myself, what is the point of this quest when i can just fly over the fucking locked door?

Bottom line is, pro-flight players just need to get on board with the changes to flight going forward. Expect that flight will be a purely convenience thing added later in each expansion. I personally don't like the fact that it will be added at all, but I have accepted the compromise of keeping flight out of the game until a certain patch / point in the expansion.

The anti-flight players have largely accepted the compromise that Blizzard has struck with flying, why cant the pro-flight players get on board as well?

[Cowa]

well i guess I need to group up with people that have 2 seater ground mounts, I aint walkin

[WowIsDead64]

That guy bun bun wasnt worthed my first post on this forum,

If i dont like a game how it is, why should i play it and complain about it?

its an mmorpg, if you have to FREE THE PRINCESS IN A CASTLE, and to do that, you have to beat the securitys, the guards, the "boss" why would you be able to fly to the top of the castle and land on the princess head, fast click her and mount out of there?

Dont complain about cant fly on legion,
be gracefull you can fly on the old content.

MMO - isn't game, where there is only one way to do the same content. If it is - then game design is wrong.

Killer's way to free princess - hides outside of castle and kills all other players, who come to castle - forgets about princess herself.
Explorer's way to free princess - explores all corners of caste, finds old manuscript, goes away - forgets about princess herself.
Socializer's way to free princess - finds raid via chat and kills dragon outside of castle, gets some epic loot - forgets about princess herself.
Achiever's way to free princess - farms all monsters inside castle 24/7 to earn some gold, mounts, pets and gear - forgets about princess herself.
RPer's way to free princess - flies to princess, frees her, then flies away, cuz "Free princess" - is the only thing, quest tells him to do. But... At least princess is finally free!

[shonist]

You can do it in many ways,

So, you complain about cant fly in every game that doesnt allow it?

So you join Battlefield 3 and ey, why i cant fly without an airplane/helicoper? why this game cant be played in another way?

meh,

You are complaining about something you shouldnt, i say tanks to blizz for let me fly in everywhere but the actual expac zones. AT LEAST, FOR THE FIRST TIME I PASSED IT.

Just imagine that flying never existed, and you are granted with that overpowered tool in the old content. You will be happier thinking you have a good thing than if you think you have a good thing less.