Migration is 'poison' for Europe, says Hungary PM

[callipygoustp]

I have a problem with how they are acting in this current crisis.

We're not forcing them.
We are asking them to do this, our help doesn't come free.

Well, now you are creating a false dichotomy. There have to be alternatives to forcing an unwanted immigrant population on a country. Do you really want your new member states THAT unhappy? I wouldn't.

[Kalset]

Remember that it may not have been Viktor Orban who used the words "Asylum Seekers", more often than not the words of the media are used specifically to have undertones that cause a rise in those reading. Wording and verbage are incredible influencers.

What I have to say about this, as a matter of opinion is that if someone is a refugee and seeks refuge in another country, it is entirely acceptable to maintain your own cultural beliefs and influences, BUT at the same time there should be the utmost respect for the culture you have now entered. People keep speaking of the Italians and Irish in the United States, both of which still have preserved much of the culture from their homelands. At the same time though, they've integrated into society as a whole as well, (though admittedly some of them still have ties with the mafia, more in the white collar level than what it used to be in the blue collar and lower levels.)

If someone immigrates from their country of birth to another country for the sake of survival, then wouldn't their best chance of survival to also adopt and respect that nations customs and traditions rather than refuting them, closing themselves off and instead turning to destroying that country from the inside out? I admit that statement could be considered a broad generalization, but it is a point of fact that denotes the unnecessary and stupid actions of the few, which in the long run has had a negative effect on the many.


Next up is the EU in general. I need to do research on this matter, because I'll admit that I am mostly ignorant as to what it is, what it's purpose is and what it's longterm positive and negative effects have been for Europe as a whole and for individual nations. Who truly benefits from membership in the EU? Is it the people, the nation or those who are in power? Additionally, if this is an alliance (union, I know) as it seems to be named, wouldn't all members have to agree on decisions, not have the decision made and then forced upon them through economic blackmail?


One last thing I want to mention is this, and it's one of those "you know what really grinds my gears?" moments. Everyone talks about this politician or that politician and seems to have an utter disbelief either that a politician lied or that their favorite politician would lie. Using the U.S. as the prime example, 25/43 of the U.S. Presidents were lawyers, most politicians today are either lawyers or have been through some extensive form of schooling that involves translation of and understanding of law. Because in order to understand half of these crap laws and rules that are in place, you have to. At the point where the common man cannot properly understand what a law and instruction is truly saying and it has to be translated by someone with much higher education, you know that those who are of higher education and schooling are in power. Please, please, please stop blindly following whatever politician says what you believe or something near to it. Take their words as a grain of salt, because you really have no idea what the hell is really under what they are saying and you do not know what their true motives are.

[Kallisto]

Jumping to a few conclusions there.

Europeans should be for Europe first. That's all I am saying. I would say the same thing for the states of the USA : USA states should be for the USA first.

Why? What non bullshit nationalist emotional reason why should we put Europe first instead of the entire world which will actually benefit everyone. Are we still this petty that some people should be treated worse cause they come from the other side of some artificial line on a map?

[May90]

Again, point me please to the paragraph in the contract, where this "refugee" distribution quota is even remotely covered.

I don't know if it's there. If it's there, they have to follow it. If it's not, they don't. Apparently they claim they do, hence I deduce that there is something in the contract.

I haven't read the contract they all signed. Was there really a forseeable expectation that they would have to suffer forced immigration on such a massive scale? How does one plan for such a huge humanitarian crisis? I don't think this situation was forseeable. I highly doubt the people of Europe expected that part of joining the EU would require that they give up their own rights, their own human rights, in sacrifice for rights of non-Europeans. I expect members of the EU joined to benefit Europe and its member states not benefit the Middle East and Africa.

They have signed a contract which states how much control the EU government has over the decisions of their government. If they don't want to endure this control any more, they are always free to bail out.

[Damajin]

You pump billions to create a market so you can sell your products/services. It's not of humanitarian aid. Please stop comparing eastern european, EU citizens, to non-EU citizens or refugees. They are not the same!

That's actually the best point to make in all of this 'we give billions to E. European countries' talk. It's not given for humanitarian reasons, it's market driven and profit demanding. There's no out of the good will of their hearts we're doing this, the globalized market is looking for and expecting serious returns on that so really that whole argument of there's billions going into those countries needs to be tossed out. Those billions are chump change compared to what Western Europe and it's international investors are getting from it.

[callipygoustp]

Why? What non bullshit nationalist emotional reason why should we put Europe first instead of the entire world which will actually benefit everyone. Are we still this petty that some people should be treated worse cause they come from the other side of some artificial line on a map?

Riiiight. The people we should be treating horribly are the Europeans. Gotcha.

You voice the main issue I have with this discussion : people are more concerned with the guest than with the host. Bend over backwards for the guest. But the host? Fuck them, they can deal with it.

I'm not saying that immigrants should be ignored. I'm saying that the rights of the Europeans need to be taken into consideration as well. How is that not fair? How is thinking otherwise not completely hypocritical?

[May90]

Riiiight. The people we should be treating horribly are the Europeans. Gotcha.

You voice the main issue I have with this discussion : people are more concerned with the guest than with the host. Bend over backwards for the guest. But the host? Fuck them, they can deal with it.

I'm not saying that immigrants should be ignored. I'm saying that the rights of the Europeans need to be taken into consideration as well. How is that not fair? How is thinking otherwise not completely hypocritical?

They are taken into consideration. Name at least one right of Europeans that was ignored when letting the refugees in.

[callipygoustp]

They have signed a contract which states how much control the EU government has over the decisions of their government. If they don't want to endure this control any more, they are always free to bail out.

From what I've read I expect this type of consideration, "bailing out", will be more and more popular. Britain started the ball rolling. It might be slowly rolling at the moment but now that it is inertia is on its side. How long does Brussels think it can force such unpopular decisions down the throats of the member nations. Too long already in my opinion.

[Mayhem]

From what I've read I expect this type of consideration, "bailing out", will be more and more popular. Britain started the ball rolling. It might be slowly rolling at the moment but now that it is inertia is on its side. How long does Brussels think it can force such unpopular decisions down the throats of the member nations. Too long already in my opinion.

Yeah, about as likely as california seceding.

[callipygoustp]

They are taken into consideration. Name at least one right of Europeans that was ignored when letting the refugees in.

The right to self determination.

The refugees' right to live trumps their right to be an asshole.
They are always free to refuse any of this and drop out of the partnership.
Because let's face the facts: We will have refugees.

Again with the false dichotomy : there have to be other options for saving these people other than forcing it onto Europe. But, again, the Europeans are the assholes. Screw them. They need to sacrifice for the immigrants.

[May90]

From what I've read I expect this type of consideration, "bailing out", will be more and more popular. Britain started the ball rolling. It might be slowly rolling at the moment but now that it is inertia is on its side. How long does Brussels think it can force such unpopular decisions down the throats of the member nations. Too long already in my opinion.

But it doesn't force them. The countries choose to agree on them, because they chose to be members of EU.

The right to self determination.

How is it being ignored?

[callipygoustp]

Yeah, about as likely as california seceding.

California is dealing with a crisis thrust upon them by the USA government that is of the magnitude that the European migrant crisis is? Do tell.

[Mayhem]

California is dealing with a crisis thrust upon them by the USA government that is of the magnitude that the European migrant crisis is? Do tell.

Refugee crisis and seceding would be worse.

[Repefe]

Honestly, here in Czechia, we have good experience with immigrants. We have ppl from Ukraine who provide solid labor in jobs that are hard to fill, we have ppl from Vietnam who like to shelter our small shop/restaurant/other services needs. They are great immigrants, flexible, accommodating, hard working.

The current wave of immigrants ... not so fun. Entitled, hard to assimilate, our country living standards are not even good enough for them and they try to leave asap to get to Germany to reach their level of living standards. Not to mention majority of population does not follow any religion, so when you come and start to insist you can't shake a woman's hand, ppl don't respond kindly. This is 21st century, not middle ages.

There are good immigrants and bad immigrants ... Europe should help everyone in need as much as it can, but that does not mean it has to be in the form of immigration for everyone. Some cultures do not fit in with Europe cultures and we can still help those ppl where they live, but there is no point assimilating them into Europe.

[callipygoustp]

How is it being ignored?

And now I feel like I'm talking to a 5 year old...

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Refugee crisis and seceding would be worse.

Didn't answer my question.

[Mayhem]

Didn't answer my question.

Ok, saying something is as likely doesn´t mean the circumstances are equal.

[callipygoustp]

They can take refugees and our money, or they can have nothing.

Again with the "all or nothing" scenario. Is that all you see in the world?

Yes, we need to sacrifise for the immigrants.

Why? Seriously, why are the Europeans expected to sacrifice?

And while we are at it, we should totally send a few more billions to Hungary.

You have a habit of sneaking in other agendas.

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Ok, saying something is as likely doesn´t mean the circumstances are equal.

In this case not even in the same galaxy.

[Mayhem]

In this case not even in the same galaxy.

Agreed, doesn´t matter anyway.

[May90]

And now I feel like I'm talking to a 5 year old...

I expected better of you... Oh well.

[ranzino]

.....
We have a couple of Eastern-European EU-members whining that they need to help in the refugee-crisis.
If you ask me we just cut all funding and use that money to solve the crisis.

You do not solve the crisis by throwing good money away, sorry. Next wave of refugees will hit the door soon and the cycle starts anew. Have fun with that, but really...dont expect all of europe to fall for this shit again.