Legion: Elemental Specific

[Northy]

Weren't those only PvP changes?

Yep. Isn't PvP all that matters? :P

[Lucrece]

Decided to shelf my shaman because the two DPS specs I've enjoyed over the years aren't nearly as enjoyable for myself in its current form. It's a damn shame but it looks like I'll be moving towards Druid and Mage.

How is druid any more enjoyable?

Balance druid is an ele shaman with even slower ramp up and even more costly aoe that also requires 2 dots be on each target, it'd be like requiring flame shock be on every target for earthquake to do any damage at all.

Feral druids are trash.

So what druid main are you looking at, resto druid?

[Deleted]

Question to all ele beta tester, is Icefury viable for sustain damage later on lv 110? Because today I've just tested it on my garrison dummy, buffed FrS non-crit dmg hit much more harder than LB and slightly lower from LvB crit dmg. And to timed it with Ele Focus proc is also fun. A bit twist to our rotation.

Tried playing with Icefury and although it hits hard it is very awkward to fit into the rotation much like EB and honestly isn't better than PE. Especially with your artifact having a trait that reduces PE's CD by 2 seconds every LvB it makes PE a no brainer.

Also as a side note to others I find Ele to be pretty strong on bosses if you have an idea of the encounter and can time stuff properly, found myself top 1-3 DPS in raids (Where everyone is scaled to the same iLvl) and have insane burst during Mythic bosses. I agree that our AoE isnt amazing but if we get good RNG for CL procs then it's the strongest AOE in the game though it can be frustrating when CL doesn't proc atall. It's nice to finally be superior on ST over AoE for a change as we will never get both it seems.

[Kralljin]

Question to all ele beta tester, is Icefury viable for sustain damage later on lv 110? Because today I've just tested it on my garrison dummy, buffed FrS non-crit dmg hit much more harder than LB and slightly lower from LvB crit dmg. And to timed it with Ele Focus proc is also fun. A bit twist to our rotation.

Problem are the talents mainly.

First off, playing it with Lightning Rod is pretty awkward, less time spent on casting LB => smaller LR value.
Playing with Ascendance is okay but: Ascendance builds favor PE due Elementalist.

Icefury might work on a heavy movement fight, but on anything with low movement and cleave / AoE, it's not that great.

Probably decent for PvP though, should be pretty solid with EotE and Control of Lava.

[Lucrece]

I can't help but feel that the fire ele should be scaled down to be a 2 min cd...and adjust the artifact trait accordingly to something else.

Enhancement feels great because it's got a baseline 2 min cd.

Ele feels like it has no burst cd for burst phases unless it talents into EM or ascendance.

[Lightning-]

How much does the "Shamanistic Healing" from the artifact heal?

[Riistov]

I can't help but feel that the fire ele should be scaled down to be a 2 min cd...and adjust the artifact trait accordingly to something else.

Enhancement feels great because it's got a baseline 2 min cd.

Ele feels like it has no burst cd for burst phases unless it talents into EM or ascendance.

Would really like Ascendance to be back on a 2 min cooldown. Based on how much damage it's doing in beta, I don't see that making Ele overpowered anytime soon, and having those two cooldowns syncing up is a lot more fun and engaging.

Fire ele should totally be at LEAST a minute or two shorter. 5 minutes seems like an eternity for a pet that doesn't do all that much damage.

- - - Updated - - -

How much does the "Shamanistic Healing" from the artifact heal?

From what I've seen, it's pretty underwhelming. Hopefully, that will change with tuning.

[effs]

Doesn't the fire ele with PE do a big chunk of your damage? Or have they killed that? Plus there's an artifact trait that reduces the CD of the ele.

[Antilurker77]

Would really like Ascendance to be back on a 2 min cooldown. Based on how much damage it's doing in beta, I don't see that making Ele overpowered anytime soon, and having those two cooldowns syncing up is a lot more fun and engaging.

Fire ele should totally be at LEAST a minute or two shorter. 5 minutes seems like an eternity for a pet that doesn't do all that much damage.

- - - Updated - - -



From what I've seen, it's pretty underwhelming. Hopefully, that will change with tuning.

What? Fire Elemental hits like a truck right now. And with the artifact it's basically a 3 minute CD anyway.

[Lucrece]

Which makes ascendance and PE pretty much mandatory, which is just dumb.

We shouldn't have to talent into burst cd's. We were THE burst spec next to destro before, why are we missing a burst cd now?

[Nekobe140]

How is druid any more enjoyable?

Balance druid is an ele shaman with even slower ramp up and even more costly aoe that also requires 2 dots be on each target, it'd be like requiring flame shock be on every target for earthquake to do any damage at all.

Feral druids are trash.

So what druid main are you looking at, resto druid?

Mmm, Balance druid has much better mobility and self-healing at the current moment. We're like tanks who cast currently. And Feral Druids are a blast, we hit hard with high burst potential. BTW I PvP. Ele shamans are the worst casters in PvP.

[Lucrece]

Mmm, Balance druid has much better mobility and self-healing at the current moment. We're like tanks who cast currently. And Feral Druids are a blast, we hit hard with high burst potential. BTW I PvP. Ele shamans are the worst casters in PvP.

No, balance druids don't have better self healing.

Elemental shaman's direct heal gains 45% boost from the artifact talent alone. It heals for 450% spell power at a 1.5 sec cast. Healing Touch is a 360% spell power on a 2.5 second cast, and the only thing your artifact does is give you a free one every 20 seconds.

Quite frankly, your comment on resto affinity means jackshit considering in WoD we already had Rejuv in Moonkin form, so we only gained a Regrowth which competes with Healing Touch in casting opportunity cost and offers less burst healing (its burst heal compared to Healing Surge at the same 1.5 sec cast time is less than half of Healing Surge's healing without taking Healing Surge's 45% artifact boost, and the total healing is a miserly 269.4% spell power, or about 60% of the healing over 12 seconds of what a Healing Surge without artifact boost heals for). Rejuv adds 60% spell power every 3 seconds.

Assuming you're being generous and cast a Regrowth+Rejuv to compare with Healing Surge, you have a total healing of 569.4% for two globals, spread over an effect of 15 seconds, while 2 Healing Surge's in two globals worth of time heals for 900% spell power without the 45% artifact boost. Add swiftmend every 30 seconds for a third global, bringing up 1269.4% spell power for 3 globals. 3 Healing Surges in 3 globals is 1350% spell power. 2 Healing Surges at 2 globals with a 45% boost is 1305% spell power. Of our 3 ideal druid globals, 2 are instant, but 2 of the 3 spells can also be dispelled/spellstolen, they take many times longer to fulfill their healing for a lesser total amount of healing, and Swiftmend is on a 30 sec cd.

So their baseline heals compared without our talented for affinity is not a comparison you want to make, because if we're NOT talking about resto affinity, our healing is even more laughable.

There's the math with spell power coefficients lifted straight out from wowhead.

I don't know why you people keep repeating this lie that druid healing is good when druids are the hybrid with the weakest healing numbers.

And feral has no burst, I don't know what you're smoking because they utterly gutted feral direct damage to put it into bleeds and enhancement shamans do far more burst damage with doom winds than feral ever will.

[gambit998]

All i am reading is 'My heals are better than your heals' School Yard junk. The point is this, Maelstrom as a whole was a thing thought up for Enhancment and it works....very very very well. Elemental was an afterthought for a mechanic we already had with lightning shield , Mana was a almost useless system for us and i understand why they have put us onto Maelstrom but i do not think that it was well thought out in implementation for the Spec as a whole. We have builders sure but no secondary effects for actually usuing our Maelstrom other than Flameshock that was nerfed base line to allow for a 'buffed up' version when maelstrom is spent. We have what 2 spenders in our basic rotation? Earthshock and Earthquake totem. 0 interaction with our ONLY healing spell where our Melee brothers gets interaction with Maelstrom on healing surge. Granted they are more mobile so theres can go instant cast. But Why o why can we not pool our Maelstrom to have Healing surge heal for more when cast on ourselves. (a different form of interaction separate from Enhancement)

Now you say sure they nerfed healing around the board. Okay fine but as a spec that Requires decent self healing as for lack of a better description as a 'Defensive ability' it is the reason we are so squishy. Elementals defensives are a joke and have been getting worse and worse for ages which was fine during Vanilla and BC where we where the Paladin counter class. They had the defensives and 0 burst where we had Burst and 0 defensives. But that is ages past now and we are no longer counter class to anything.

People have been shouting for raid utility and this i agree with completely. As the 'original buff machines' we where we are so far removed from that role now it is scary. We have a talent that forgoes our own personal movement to grant a small area effect with freedom and movement speed. Which needs to projected and the current projection in its form has major pathing issues. (prohibiting effect use)

Our second Raid cooldown is Bloodlust/Heroism which was given to Mages during Cata if i recall. Granted it is a powerful buff and there should be a second class that brings it, i think it was a poor choice to give it to a pure class with superior damage numbers, mobility and the like. they could have given it to Shadow Priests for instance and i would have been fine with it. The fact that they gave this to Mages always puts my spot in a raid into contention.

Lastly AG....this was a beautiful raid cooldown Talent that complemented Elemental very very well during MOP. It has since been gutted and nerfed beyond use. Yet it is sitting amoung our current 2016 talents. Competing right with our Wind totem raid cooldown. (I cannot recall the name)

Early during legion Alpha they made it so Earth Elemental was a small raid Damage reduction. Hence the 15 second duration that it currently has and its 2 min cooldown. The idea of this went by the wayside quite quickly when elemental shamans (myself included) did not like the limited duration pet play that they where proposing.
They proceeded to change the idea of the spec to the burst machine we are going to be in beta forgetting that they changed earth Elemental for one of there older designs.

The biggest problem with this spec is not just numbers ect. It is the major LACK OF DIRECTION.

[Antilurker77]

But Why o why can we not pool our Maelstrom to have Healing surge heal for more when cast on ourselves. (a different form of interaction separate from Enhancement)

That's how it worked in early beta and it was horrible. Let's not go back to that.

Early during legion Alpha they made it so Earth Elemental was a small raid Damage reduction.

No, it didn't. The first iteration had unclear wording and people lost their shit. It was never a raid cooldown.

[gambit998]

That's how it worked in early beta and it was horrible. Let's not go back to that.



No, it didn't. The first iteration had unclear wording and people lost their shit. It was never a raid cooldown.

Kay cool well why not at least passively buff it so that when healing ones self you heal for X amount more. If they ont want us as group or raid healers in pinch situations then that should work if it is 'your own heal' on yourself.

Well either way the earth Elemental needs to be addressed atm it is currently a waste of a spell that i would gladly replace Gust of wind for. (Move it out of Talents and move it into Earth Elementals spot, then take earth Elemental and put it by gust of wind and make it a raid wide damage reduction.) That would fix the god aweful talent organisation and it would allow Elemental at least to beable to 'blink' baseline.

[Deleted]

All i am reading is 'My heals are better than your heals' School Yard junk. The point is this, Maelstrom as a whole was a thing thought up for Enhancment and it works....very very very well. Elemental was an afterthought for a mechanic we already had with lightning shield , Mana was a almost useless system for us and i understand why they have put us onto Maelstrom but i do not think that it was well thought out in implementation for the Spec as a whole. We have builders sure but no secondary effects for actually usuing our Maelstrom other than Flameshock that was nerfed base line to allow for a 'buffed up' version when maelstrom is spent. We have what 2 spenders in our basic rotation? Earthshock and Earthquake totem. 0 interaction with our ONLY healing spell where our Melee brothers gets interaction with Maelstrom on healing surge. Granted they are more mobile so theres can go instant cast. But Why o why can we not pool our Maelstrom to have Healing surge heal for more when cast on ourselves. (a different form of interaction separate from Enhancement)

Now you say sure they nerfed healing around the board. Okay fine but as a spec that Requires decent self healing as for lack of a better description as a 'Defensive ability' it is the reason we are so squishy. Elementals defensives are a joke and have been getting worse and worse for ages which was fine during Vanilla and BC where we where the Paladin counter class. They had the defensives and 0 burst where we had Burst and 0 defensives. But that is ages past now and we are no longer counter class to anything.

People have been shouting for raid utility and this i agree with completely. As the 'original buff machines' we where we are so far removed from that role now it is scary. We have a talent that forgoes our own personal movement to grant a small area effect with freedom and movement speed. Which needs to projected and the current projection in its form has major pathing issues. (prohibiting effect use)

Our second Raid cooldown is Bloodlust/Heroism which was given to Mages during Cata if i recall. Granted it is a powerful buff and there should be a second class that brings it, i think it was a poor choice to give it to a pure class with superior damage numbers, mobility and the like. they could have given it to Shadow Priests for instance and i would have been fine with it. The fact that they gave this to Mages always puts my spot in a raid into contention.

Lastly AG....this was a beautiful raid cooldown Talent that complemented Elemental very very well during MOP. It has since been gutted and nerfed beyond use. Yet it is sitting amoung our current 2016 talents. Competing right with our Wind totem raid cooldown. (I cannot recall the name)

Early during legion Alpha they made it so Earth Elemental was a small raid Damage reduction. Hence the 15 second duration that it currently has and its 2 min cooldown. The idea of this went by the wayside quite quickly when elemental shamans (myself included) did not like the limited duration pet play that they where proposing.
They proceeded to change the idea of the spec to the burst machine we are going to be in beta forgetting that they changed earth Elemental for one of there older designs.

The biggest problem with this spec is not just numbers ect. It is the major LACK OF DIRECTION.

Don't post this on the Elemental Discord, you'll be flamed to hell. Haha.

Seriously, some people even posted that everyone outside of Esrthshrine has no idea of Elemental, several others agreed. I had a good laugh, tbh.

They proof Elemental viability by posting logs of normal mode fights. This is why this class sucks, many clueless people come together and share their misinformation with each other. Valuable and focused feedback can't given if everyone disagrees with each other, because of good logs from normal mode fights.

[Shauren]

Kay cool well why not at least passively buff it so that when healing ones self you heal for X amount more. If they ont want us as group or raid healers in pinch situations then that should work if it is 'your own heal' on yourself.

Well either way the earth Elemental needs to be addressed atm it is currently a waste of a spell that i would gladly replace Gust of wind for. (Move it out of Talents and move it into Earth Elementals spot, then take earth Elemental and put it by gust of wind and make it a raid wide damage reduction.) That would fix the god aweful talent organisation and it would allow Elemental at least to beable to 'blink' baseline.

I wouldn't say its a waste of space in spellbook - it can save your ass when you accidentally pull 2 mobs when leveling (lol) - fits our horrible leveling experience with its horribleness just right (compared to other classes, that is).

[Deleted]

I'm totally lost on how to play Elemental now. I don't know which talents to pick, my rotation, etc. Anyone else feeling this way?

[Lightning-]

I'm totally lost on how to play Elemental now. I don't know which talents to pick, my rotation, etc. Anyone else feeling this way?

I think Ele is really straightforward. Just reading talents and skills you can understand easily how the basic things work.

[Socialhealer]

The biggest problem with this spec is not just numbers ect. It is the major LACK OF DIRECTION.

i thought the direction was obvious?

resto for pvp.

mage for pvp if you don't like healing?

thats what the devs are telling me from an elemental pov.