No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Bun-Bun]

as your follow up post.
honestly, im over arguing with you - theres no point having a discussion with someone who refuses to budge and this is contributing nothing to the threead. You're welcome to the last word if you want it.

What are you trying to prove here?

I replied to Connll to clarify my post as they were confused and were asking me a question.

I find it greatly amusing that you accuse me of things when you yourself are the guilty party of said accusations.

I was talking about no flight. Someone else asked a question and started a side conversation. You twisted it around to serve your own agenda and made assumptions about people and put words in their mouths. Then when proved wrong, again, you quote a clarification post that serves zero purpose to your argument and made accusations of contributing nothing which you just did yourself.

This all comes back to the fact you can not accept that other people have a different opinion than you and/or enjoy the game differently. You have demonstrated this repeatedly in this thread and even though you keep saying you are done arguing you continue with the same tired tactic of forcing your opinion onto others and making incorrect assumptions about them and how they enjoy to play the game.

[WowIsDead64]

The customers are more than welcome to fuck off and stop paying for a product they don't like. Blizzard is under no obligation to design Wow around what certain people want. It is their own fucking game.

It is almost like game development is about shaping how people play games or something. Wow was never and will never be a sandbox game. Get the fuck over it. If Blizzard wants players to cluster in a certain area they will design the game in such a way to do so as it is kind of the whole fucking point of game development

This argument is very hypocritical, cuz players tend to use "It's their game" argument, when devs' point of view matches their point of view, but tend to whine by themselves, when it doesn't and don't see anything wrong in doing it. It's called being selfish. Max camera distance problem has proven, that many ppl, who tell us to deal with no flying problem here, can't deal with Blizzards' decision to reduce camera distance. Same with many other things, like LFR, LFD, Garrisions, etc. Some people just can't understand, that their personal vision of perfect game is just vision of 1% of playerbase and that they have to deal with visions of 99% of others. At least 50% of players in this game - are PVEers. And that's why forcing competition/PVP on all players - is really bad idea. If players want to avoid it either via flying or via playing on PVE server - may it's because they don't like it? May be this is the reason, why Blizzard have ~5M of players - not 10M.

[Mafic]

This argument is very hypocritical, cuz players tend to use "It's their game" argument, when devs' point of view matches their point of view, but tend to whine by themselves, when it doesn't and don't see anything wrong in doing it. It's called being selfish. Max camera distance problem has proven, that many ppl, who tell us to deal with no flying problem here, can't deal with Blizzards' decision to reduce camera distance. Same with many other things, like LFR, LFD, Garrisions, etc. Some people just can't understand, that their personal vision of perfect game is just vision of 1% of playerbase and that they have to deal with visions of 99% of others. At least 50% of players in this game - are PVEers. And that's why forcing competition/PVP on all players - is really bad idea. If players want to avoid it either via flying or via playing on PVE server - may it's because they don't like it? May be this is the reason, why Blizzard have ~5M of players - not 10M.

Blizzard correlates burnout with not doing all the "content". But what they fail to realize is that is what leas to burn out

So, players doing the Legion patchfinder achievement will be burned out before the next part even arrives. And when flying arrives players will be apathetic to the entire process. If that is what Blizz wants, then they need to be prepared to put out the dumpster fire that it will be down the line by withholding flight over such a long period of time.

[Deleted]

A difference of opinion is not a crusade.

Yes but not everything you think is an opinion is a opinion, especially if you are attacking othters that do follow your opinion constantly.

I've discussed far more than "flight destroys the game"; in fact, I dont believe i've ever said that.
Opinions on this thread are literally coming from 5-6 people, with a ridiculous amount of over-exaggeration of issues caused by lack of flight.
I far prefer to discuss reasons for contention for lack of flight and what can be improved , beyond suggestions of .just put flight back in'.

Well you are kind of right. There could be done so much more... TO THE REST OF THE CONTENT. Flight has been fine, there haven't been any problems with it for 8 years straight. Well except those poor griefer suckers that complained that they cannot hold somebody in place for hours on end, and some of the developers with hurt feelings about people skipping the content they designed. The problem ist not the skipping, it is the bad content that makes people want to skip it. That is why i shouted about the rest of the content. There are the problems, but there is any for flight, so flight doesn't need any fixing.

Theres a lot that could be done, but so far ive been pretty mobile between whistle, order teleport, dalaran teleport, and just getting on with quests/dungeons/gathering.

See? that is what i am telling you for the thousandth time now: not everybody is playing like you. And believe it or not but there are certainly people that prefer flight over teleporting and glorified loadingscreens aka "i am afk, watching porn, and do some cooking"-flight taxis.

I think it is good for you that you don't have any problems, but you are not the only person. Well.... you are one of those few people left. Or do you really believe that the smooth expac-start happend because of "we raised server capacity"? Sure... a company that makes money of a customer service doubles capacities when they have the least customers in 10 years to use their service. So Blizzard should care about who is fine with the situation and playing, they should ask them selves: Why aren't numbers up to where they sky rocketed during the launch of WoD when Legion is "so much better".

[Connll]

So Blizzard should care about who is fine with the situation and playing, they should ask them selves: Why aren't numbers up to where they sky rocketed during the launch of WoD when Legion is "so much better".

That is an excellent question.

WoW devs said that they won´t report subscription numbers anymore as they "don´t matter" (or something to that effect)

Then a few months later we see EVERYWHERE that Overwatch has sold over 15 MILLION COPIES!!!111!!!

Then comes the latest Hearthstone expansions and ZOMG COME PLAY GAME GAME WITH OVER 100 MILLION PLAYERS!!!111!!! (Question: do Hearthstone actually has that many accounts?)

But for Legion, that is soo much better than WoD (granted, thats very easy)... nah. no need to report numbers. Everything is fine, move along. Pay no attention to cross-server instances and the like.

Yeah. The only mistery here is how the hell people believe that corporate speak.

[WowIsDead64]

Blizzard correlates burnout with not doing all the "content". But what they fail to realize is that is what leas to burn out

So, players doing the Legion patchfinder achievement will be burned out before the next part even arrives. And when flying arrives players will be apathetic to the entire process. If that is what Blizz wants, then they need to be prepared to put out the dumpster fire that it will be down the line by withholding flight over such a long period of time.

I don't think, that Blizzard are so stupid not to realize, that there is no solid "content", that should be done by every single player - they know, that different parts of content exist in game for different kinds of players. What they most likely trying to do - is to use flying as big carrot on a stick. Remember, that all this problems with flying started, when Blizzard stated, that flying should have been big meaningful reward for players, as it had been back in TBC? Same big carrot on a stick, as legendaries/artefacts. Blizzard realized, that players are ready to pay sub fee just for big free participation reward. Blizzard assume, that all "Achievers" are reward-driven, so they will pursue reward without caring about process of gathering it. I don't know about other "Achievers", but personally for me it doesn't work. I won't jump trough hops, I actually hate, in order to achieve reward, I need. Never. That's why I haven't completed my legendary ring quest - I hate LFR too much to kill ~70 bosses there. I'll better quit this game.

[Eapoe]

That is an excellent question.

WoW devs said that they won´t report subscription numbers anymore as they "don´t matter" (or something to that effect)

Then a few months later we see EVERYWHERE that Overwatch has sold over 15 MILLION COPIES!!!111!!!

Then comes the latest Hearthstone expansions and ZOMG COME PLAY GAME GAME WITH OVER 100 MILLION PLAYERS!!!111!!! (Question: do Hearthstone actually has that many accounts?)

But for Legion, that is soo much better than WoD (granted, thats very easy)... nah. no need to report numbers. Everything is fine, move along. Pay no attention to cross-server instances and the like.

Yeah. The only mistery here is how the hell people believe that corporate speak.

In all fairness, Overwatch is a brand new(ish) game in a new genre for Blizzard, of course they would advertise the hype of the launch. Hearthstone is also relatively new in the scheme of things, that consists of online pvp with a basic fundamental of Magic: The Gathering and other table top card games of the ilk. WoW is an 8+ year old game with a solid core fanbase in a genre that isn't the height of games anymore. They've also said that as long as there are fans of the game they will continue producing xpacs/updates (within reason of course, they are a company that needs to make a profit). As well as the drop off that has happened over the years from the peaks of the genre that makes a company seem like it is failing should be included. After considering the differences and the bold statement of Blizzard's, it's not hard to imagine why they don't feel a need to produce numbers.

[SirCowdog]

Just wanted to maybe take this discussion back to something a little more on topic, and quite a less about trying to insult each other.

I saw this line from the recent interview:

At one point double jump and glide worked with a mount, so you could double jump on a mount.

Which was, I think, in reference to demon hunters only. But it's VERY interesting to me that at once point they were looking at making ground mounts better. This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that I suggested earlier as a way to improve the utility and value of ground mounts.

What do you guys think? Something for only Demonhunters, or could they make this work as part of an expanded, improved system of mounts for all classes?

[Connll]

In all fairness, Overwatch is a brand new(ish) game in a new genre for Blizzard, of course they would advertise the hype of the launch. Hearthstone is also relatively new in the scheme of things, that consists of online pvp with a basic fundamental of Magic: The Gathering and other table top card games of the ilk. WoW is an 8+ year old game with a solid core fanbase in a genre that isn't the height of games anymore. They've also said that as long as there are fans of the game they will continue producing xpacs/updates (within reason of course, they are a company that needs to make a profit). As well as the drop off that has happened over the years from the peaks of the genre that makes a company seem like it is failing should be included. After considering the differences and the bold statement of Blizzard's, it's not hard to imagine why they don't feel a need to produce numbers.

Yeah, yeah, I am sure this justifies the hypocrisy...

[Eapoe]

Yeah, yeah, I am sure this justifies the hypocrisy...

What hypocrisy? They said they weren't publishing WoW sub numbers anymore. They never said they aren't publishing numbers for all of their IP's. No hypocrisy occurred.

- - - Updated - - -

On the topic at hand, so far the launch has been very fun. Legion launched smoothly and continued that way into the next afternoon before the DDOS started. Some of the zones are not as interesting to me, such as Valsharah with the nightmare colors bleeding thru into the landscape (the coloring is quite boring and unappealing to me).
The lack of flight has not hindered me in progressing at all so far. The zones overall are smaller than previous xpacs and there is terrain all over such as mountains and trees and rocks (can tell you how many times I got stuck on a fence post autorunning), but with the caves and underground exploration as well as the fact that there are enough quests you easily get overwhelmed with things to do, the lack of flight has not been noticed as I would barely have time to mount up and move to the next zone before I'd be back down doing things in game. Adding to that, once the main story campaign is over for each zone you are now doing class quests and world quests, along with normal/heroic/mythic dungeons and those are spread out all over the world yet close enough to literally spend 1-2 minutes getting from one to the next (once you learn the terrain), flight is again not that sorely missed. I have also yet to see any overpopulation of mobs that cause too many issues, such as Preach's video suggested.
That being said, there are times when flight is missed, such as if you are just wanting to farm mats for the day and avoid everything else around, or if you are time constrained (real life happens) and you want to get too many things done in a small amount of time.
To Bun: I don't understand how you could be anywhere near bored with the game at this point with everything to do right now, let alone why you would post it in a thread about flight. With everything to do right now, flight would have no impact on you being bored. The only thing I can think of is that you are tired/bored with the game overall and nothing will help. Flight that lets you get to the things you find boring faster will not make the game less boring.

[rebecca191]

I tried Suramar on beta and hated it. So yeah, flying would improve it for me. When I do finally buy Legion, close to when flying is enabled, I won't do a single thing there other than what is required for Pathfinder until after I have flying. The whole design felt like Blizzard's main goal was to force people to kill tons of extra trash to get anything done.

And leveling with flying is really fun for me when it is designed that way. Storm Peaks and Icecrown had flying while leveling and are among my most favorite zones in the game.

[Shaede]

I'd love to have flying but to be honest between the whistle you get and how quick the flightpaths are, plus being a warrior I can leap down to any zone I want... I don't have any complaints. The land itself is easy to travel and well designed for ground mounts. It's not as big of a deal to me as it was in WoD to say the least.

[Deleted]

The land itself is easy to travel and well designed for ground mounts. It's not as big of a deal to me as it was in WoD to say the least.

After doing Azsuna and Val'sharah, IMO it feels even worse than WoD, there's steep cliffs everywhere and mob density is even higher in some places. Usually i just run through the packs and hope i don't get dismounted.

[MoanaLisa]

Usually i just run through the packs and hope i don't get dismounted.

The developers would read that comment and fairly point out that this was exactly their intention. Whether or not you enjoy that sort of gameplay is a personal preference and quite a few players either don't or became a little spoiled with flying and being able to just skip all of that.

But with that said, objectively there is more gameplay in waiting for patrols to pass, evading packs, or simply trying to run through them than flying over them. Again, it's OK if you're not overly interested in that but having to deal with it is pretty clearly what the developers want.

I went after a Treasure Chest with a Glittering Memento AP reward today and on the way:

• had to evade some mobs (easy)
• kill an infernal at 2.9m health that was unexpected (not easy but managed it)
• run between patrols (had to time it right)
• kill some spiders (easy enough)
• generally think about how I was going to get from point A to point B (some would even call that immersive).

That's exactly what they're after I suspect. In the meanwhile I bagged a bunch of other stuff including some gray thing that vendored for something like 49 gold.

I fully realize that there will be some that will be appalled at having to do all of that just for a treasure and reply with the usual reasons why they think that's all wrong but all things considered it was much more engaging than flying over everything, killing the guy outside of the cave, getting the treasure chest and flying out again. It's how a war zone ought to be.

[Connll]

The hypocrisy is where every game reports on how great it's doing and then stops communication, but apparently people only whine about Blizzard doing it.

Who is even bringing other games to this discussion?

Also, how exactly that makes blizz behavior less hypocritical?

- - - Updated - - -

What hypocrisy? They said they weren't publishing WoW sub numbers anymore. They never said they aren't publishing numbers for all of their IP's. No hypocrisy occurred.

So, are you suggesting that not reporting numbers for one game (who is experiencing some... controversy, to keep it mild), under the "justification" that "numbers dont´t matter", but doing the exact opposite for others isn´t?

[wing5wong]

I tried Suramar on beta and hated it. So yeah, flying would improve it for me. When I do finally buy Legion, close to when flying is enabled, I won't do a single thing there other than what is required for Pathfinder until after I have flying. The whole design felt like Blizzard's main goal was to force people to kill tons of extra trash to get anything done.

And leveling with flying is really fun for me when it is designed that way. Storm Peaks and Icecrown had flying while leveling and are among my most favorite zones in the game.

Suramar is great IMO. Did you do the quest to get a mask allowing you to blend in? There not much killing required in the main town. I can see that feeling horrible if you are actually killing everything there

[rebecca191]

Suramar is great IMO. Did you do the quest to get a mask allowing you to blend in? There not much killing required in the main town. I can see that feeling horrible if you are actually killing everything there

No I never got that far, I stopped a bit after getting the flight whistle. I was ilvl 810 or so (and that was inflated with a legendary from the Flaskataur) and while I wasn't dying to the mobs if I actually tried to kill them it was slow and was honestly faster if I just let myself die if I got dazed.

[SirCowdog]

The developers would read that comment and fairly point out that this was exactly their intention. Whether or not you enjoy that sort of gameplay is a personal preference and quite a few players either don't or became a little spoiled with flying and being able to just skip all of that.

But with that said, objectively there is more gameplay in waiting for patrols to pass, evading packs, or simply trying to run through them than flying over them. Again, it's OK if you're not overly interested in that but having to deal with it is pretty clearly what the developers want.

I went after a Treasure Chest with a Glittering Memento AP reward today and on the way:

• had to evade some mobs (easy)
• kill an infernal at 2.9m health that was unexpected (not easy but managed it)
• run between patrols (had to time it right)
• kill some spiders (easy enough)
• generally think about how I was going to get from point A to point B (some would even call that immersive).

That's exactly what they're after I suspect. In the meanwhile I bagged a bunch of other stuff including some gray thing that vendored for something like 49 gold.

I fully realize that there will be some that will be appalled at having to do all of that just for a treasure and reply with the usual reasons why they think that's all wrong but all things considered it was much more engaging than flying over everything, killing the guy outside of the cave, getting the treasure chest and flying out again. It's how a war zone ought to be.

Or people can just run/glide/stealth in, drop some CC or let a pet tank, nab the treasure, then leave. Leatherworking can craft an item that prevents dismounting, so there's not even that issue.

Sure, that's marginally more gameplay than simply flying in and doing the same, and you're right that there is some opportunity for the type of gameplay that you just described(if you're willing to go out of your way to do that sort of thing). But it comes at the cost of irritating a lot of players who simply have no interest in those types of things. And when that irritation is everywhere, in all zones, it starts to wear on people.

This all just comes back to what I keep saying about Blizzard needing to make the decision between flying and ground a real choice. Right now people say if flying is available, then no one will use the ground mount because flying is easier/better. But when there's simply no choice in the matter, that's just as bad.

[Mafic]

After doing Azsuna and Val'sharah, IMO it feels even worse than WoD, there's steep cliffs everywhere and mob density is even higher in some places. Usually i just run through the packs and hope i don't get dismounted.

Highmountain is the worst. It is worse than Spires of Arrak.

Highmountain is what broken Preach in the beta where he said flying should be added ASAP.

[Dristereau]

I have not missed Daze. Good lord I forgot how made I get when that happens.

Also, please add flying for corpse runs. Spent 10 minutes today hunting my Corpse (I died in a cave right next to a Quest Mob I needed, couldn't even find the cave). Especially in Highmountain and Surumar (Areas like Felsoul Hold).