Mythic+ shouldn't have time limits

[Deleted]

No...


/10chars

[Deleted]

i think it currently is a bit too focused on having good DPS players.

Those make or break the runs, if you dont have people in your guild that do 300k+ dps throughout the dungeons then you are screwed.

[kestrel]

Where did I say TBC had mythic? Oh i didn't. I said the dungeons were hard for a very long time. It was harder to gear up, and heroics sucks big time. I also have an Amani War Bear. What is your point? We didn't fail either, but I'm sure we did use CC from time to time because why not. It didn't cost anything. CC is part of the game.

I feel like you didn't play TBC if you're saying this.

My point behind that entire post was because you said "Im pretty sure you never played in TBC ..." which seemed like you were assuming I was not a credible source or knowledgeable enough to have an opinion about the topic here. I was just pointing out the contrary. YOU brought up TBC, not me.

D3 rewards area also not rewarded based on how fast you finish. Only a rift key is.

This is the exact same c ase in mythic+. You get loot for finishing the dungeon at all. You only get the keystone upgrade if you beat the timer. The keystone level increases further if you beat the timer by a more significant amount in both games.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I get the sense that the timer feels wrong because the 5 mans are extremely trash filled. Most of the boss rights feel trivial to the trash. At least most of them. Time itself is mostly a reward of trash pulling which for me personal alway feels a bit strange. Not to say I am complaining because I have been enjoying the content. But I do see some points.

[Novx]

I could see them removing the time limit but providing extra loot if you beat it within a certain time. This way you could use multiple strategies to beat mythic+ dungeons - slow grind with cc if you're going for a higher keystone, or quick zerg if you're going for gear/ap.

That is exactly how it currently is.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

Last mythic+ i did, it was already a CC fest because the tank cold not take on 3-4 without dying.

So what is the point of a time limit then? When the things you are already whining about is there? It should not be timed. if you did not have enough gear to finish it withing the time limit you would not have enough gear for the trash packs or boss fights.

So both time limit and gear serves their purpose anyway

[Jacpierre]

My point behind that entire post was because you said "Im pretty sure you never played in TBC ..." which seemed like you were assuming I was not a credible source or knowledgeable enough to have an opinion about the topic here. I was just pointing out the contrary. YOU brought up TBC, not me.



This is the exact same c ase in mythic+. You get loot for finishing the dungeon at all. You only get the keystone upgrade if you beat the timer. The keystone level increases further if you beat the timer by a more significant amount in both games.

I brought up TBC because the dungeons were extremely hard content for a long time and CC was mandatory. People like to pretend that CC and hard content are mutually exclusive. This isn't the case at all. They kept it very relevant in older content, but all of a sudden everything must be a zergfest with pure cleave damage or else it isn't fun/challenging. This is total bullshit.

And no, this isn't the case for mythic+. It's almost like you haven't run one. You get extra chests according to how quickly you complete it. Mostly it is just AP, but this STILL forces groups to rush rush rush because they want that fucking chest. It's badly designed.

[Deleted]

mythics+ is content reserved for good players who like to go the extra mile and are extremely skilled at the game.

If anything I think it should be even harder and puts more pressure on you.

There is so much casual content in this game that everyone should be fine. Even the normal emerald nightmare raid is super easy and can be done by ilvl 820 random groups in one sitting.

Time limit on mythics+ are great. I hope they make them even more challenging in the future when people have better gear. They should even add mythic+ raiding.

Also : You are not forced to finish in the time limit. Even if you gimp around you get loot.

[ComputerNerd]

That's the point.

It would be boring without a time limit because you could just cc everything, fight one enemy at a time, and crawl through a snail's pace. It wouldn't be hard at mythic +10 with no time limit, it would just be a long grind through a bunch of mobs' health bars. That's not the intent.

Dungeons aren't raids, so your comparison doesn't fit.

The rush mentality is a big part of what is wrong nowadays in dungeons.
It will continue to be a big part of FOTM class picks for Mythic Plus.
It should not be there.

Fighting one enemy at a time IS the point when the effects dictate it, like the enrage.
Time should be an issue, when for example there is the persistent health loss.

mythics+ is content reserved for good players who like to go the extra mile and are extremely skilled at the game.

If anything I think it should be even harder and puts more pressure on you.

There is so much casual content in this game that everyone should be fine. Even the normal emerald nightmare raid is super easy and can be done by ilvl 820 random groups in one sitting.

Time limit on mythics+ are great. I hope they make them even more challenging in the future when people have better gear. They should even add mythic+ raiding.

Also : You are not forced to finish in the time limit. Even if you gimp around you get loot.

That is what keystones and increasing difficulty is for.
Don't be so damn ignorant.

All a time limit does is promote cheap tactics and exclusion of classes or specs.

[kestrel]

I brought up TBC because the dungeons were extremely hard content for a long time and CC was mandatory. People like to pretend that CC and hard content are mutually exclusive. This isn't the case at all. They kept it very relevant in older content, but all of a sudden everything must be a zergfest with pure cleave damage or else it isn't fun/challenging. This is total bullshit.

And no, this isn't the case for mythic+. It's almost like you haven't run one. You get extra chests according to how quickly you complete it. Mostly it is just AP, but this STILL forces groups to rush rush rush because they want that fucking chest. It's badly designed.

I'm tempted to mention how I've run some already, but then you'd go OH WHOA WHOA BUDDY I HAVE TOO, SO WHAT?

I agree that CC has fallen by the wayside but that's just the game we're playing now. I do appreciate it when a rogue throws out a blind on a ranged mob now and then though.

I guess if you didn't want a total speed run zergfest that you hate, discuss with your group beforehand that all you want is to beat the timer without worrying about bonus chests and be clear about it, then you won't have people killing themselves over the time limit.

[Sylreick]

To get the rewards on par with mythic raiding, you should be challenged as much. Mythic+ is like raiding, difficulty starts low (LFR quality = normal mythic dungeons, mythic raiding = I'm guessing 10+?). The timer is to prove you have the gear/skill to beat higher difficulties within a reasonable time frame. Essentially, the thought process is like this: the entire dungeon is a single boss fight in a raid and the timer is the enrage effect. Can't beat the timer? Likely issues are gear, skill or strategy. Beat the timer and you earn your way to better loot. Don't beat the timer, and you still get rewarded for completion and you can rerun to beat that timer (oddly similar to wiping and trying again, huh? Only a bit better because you still get the loot).

[Deleted]

Without time limit, this mythic wouldn't be challenging at all. Besides, if you are a Diablo III player, you have that thing in there for years now - nobody complains. If you can't handle them, don't play them.

[kestrel]

All a time limit does is promote cheap tactics and exclusion of classes or specs.

It certainly does make it hard to justify not bringing a shaman or mage for that sweet sweet lust.

Honestly, I don't know what to do about that. Like in the challenge mode for Scarlet Halls, a DK could use control undead or whatever on the ghosts by the first boss and absolutely tear shit up with them if they got stacked high enough, which made the entire run significantly easier.

I guess we just hope every spec gets a cool niche from something eventually, but I wouldn't hold my breath

[Deleted]

That is what keystones and increasing difficulty is for.
Don't be so damn ignorant.

All a time limit does is promote cheap tactics and exclusion of classes or specs.

You can ignore the time limit if you don't like it.
You still get loot.

I like mythics+ and I feel they are good way to distinguish good from bad players. Good players are driven and always perform well and even better under pressure.

I think mythics+ should stay the way they are.

Blizzard cannot dumb down all content because so many casuals play this game. There is already more than enough content for casuals.

[Deleted]

Not when you are a tank.

I think it is. When tanking mythic pluses on my tank alt, 4 guildies, I want to push myself to the extreme - how much can I tank without dying, how much we can afford to rest before the time is creeping up on us. Getting a feel for the pace of my fellow team members, getting a synergy in the team.
It's a team game. Speed is part of the team game. Waiting is not skilled - it doesn't encourage communication or skill. It doesn't encourage taking risks.

[callipygoustp]

All a time limit does is promote cheap tactics and exclusion of classes or specs.

Every type of difficulty design is going to result in an optimal party configuration. This is the nature of a multi class game.

[Hctaz]

That is what keystones and increasing difficulty is for.
Don't be so damn ignorant.

All a time limit does is promote cheap tactics and exclusion of classes or specs.

No the time limit is there so that when you fail it you don't get to go to a higher difficulty. The difficulty isn't from the dungeon itself really. It's a matter of doing it in a timely fashion. You can wipe 40 times in a dungeon and still clear it. You can't do the same in a raid. The difference is that the dungeons are designed for you to wipe on the trash and the raids are designed so that trash is faceroll and teaches you some of the mechanics of the upcoming bosses. Trash will eventually die if you throw yourself at it hard enough. Mythic+ bosses are probably doable at 15 with the current gear. That isn't what makes the dungeon hard. What makes it hard is not taking 400 hours to finish it. Even if you don't make the timer then you still get loot. The timer is literally only there to see if you're good enough to go on to the next level. That's what the timer is there for. You've already proven yourself worthy of the level you're on so you get that loot. It's basically bonus loot.

[ComputerNerd]

You can ignore the time limit if you don't like it.
You still get loot.

I like mythics+ and I feel they are good way to distinguish good from bad players. Good players are driven and always perform well and even better under pressure.

I think mythics+ should stay the way they are.

Blizzard cannot dumb down all content because so many casuals play this game. There is already more than enough content for casuals.

It can't be ignored when it going to pressure players into the "fast" choices, rather than just players who can actually do their job.
That will dictate classes, because it has done enough already in content without timers.
Challenge modes proved beyond any doubt that it was wrong.

It is removing choice.
I said nothing about it "dumbing down" or about it reducing difficulty.
It dictating that there are good and bad class or spec choices for no reason other than timers is doing just the opposite of what you claim, It is dumbing down your options, through reducing them.
You pick what is "superior" only.

Every type of difficulty design is going to result in an optimal party configuration. This is the nature of a multi class game.

The game does not require that.
Players are deciding that, not the game.

[hablix]

The time limits make me not want to do them. More accurately the bonus loot for better time completions make me not want to do them. Groups are going to consider anything less than two chests as a failure which means rush rush rush, which as a healer is immensely stressful. Some healers might like it but I don't.

[callipygoustp]

The game does not require that.
Players are deciding that, not the game.

The design of the game is "deciding" that. The very nature of the design is going to result in an optimal group makeup. Players look at the difficulty, determine what is best for over coming that difficult, and then build a party to best meet that challenge.