Chicago police officer severely beaten said she was afraid to use her gun

[Polyxo]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. He basically stuck his fingers in his ears and said he can't hear you.,

Ah, yes a resoundingly structured argument! Never before has "NUH UH!" been uttered with such eloquence.

Apparently neither of you are either. The 'evidence' that was posted was not evidence at all. They were, in fact, a non-sequitur; not relevant to the debate at hand.

[Sunseeker]

Apparently neither of you are either. The 'evidence' that was posted was not evidence at all. They were, in fact, a non-sequitur; not relevant to the debate at hand.

Uh huh. Sorry bro I've just been watching you post fallacy after fallacy and then running around like a 5-year old telling everyone NUH-UH! and calling them a stinkbrain.

Please, don't get yourself further confused, I'm not here to argue with you. I know you are wrong. I don't need to prove myself, I'm just here for the lulz.

[tehealadin]

I imagine the rules are a) don't randomly execute harmless black people and b) defend yourself if attacked.

I don't think they should execute anyone who is harmless. Whilst black people are over represented in police shootings, let us not pretend that most are blacks, and that all of them are harmless. Just because he was beating on her doesn't mean he wasn't "harmless". If she wasn't in uniform, he certainly wouldn't have been harmless.

[/quote]It isn't that fucking difficult to understand. The fact that people are trying to stop policemen shooting harmless black people does not interfere with your right to self-defense as is being implied to any one with intelligence superior to a tangerine.[/quote]

It sounds like they are trying to prevent police shooting of black people, period (e.g. harmless doesn't come into it). Don't get me wrong- the cops have been too fast to shoot in too many cases (especially against black people), and it is right that attention is brought to it. However don't act like this is all that is going on- cops have dropped black men who are attacking them and cities have burned as a result. People have gotten angry (understandably) to the point where blackness is enough to warrant a riot, regardless of how "harmless" the individual was.

If you attack a cop, regardless of you being armed, if you get shot, it was your own damn fault.

[Deleted]

However don't act like this is all that is going on- cops have dropped black men who are attacking them and cities have burned as a result.

I don't recall any clear case of self-defense resulting in riots. This would almost certainly have been a clear case of self-defense.

I am very resistant to any implied argument of "If only we could use "tough" (ie extralegal) methods to shoot black people then we could protect our boys in blue!".
Most other police forces in the civilized world manage it quite easily without extralegal methods. Many don't even carry guns. This includes countries like the UK which also have periodic race riots and urban ghettos with crime problems.

[Fasc]

Apparently neither of you are either. The 'evidence' that was posted was not evidence at all. They were, in fact, a non-sequitur; not relevant to the debate at hand.

Your claim was that a taser only "fails" when it doesn't work or fails to connect. If the arc runs through your body, you're on the ground, end of. That is your claim. I walked you through why you're wrong, beginning with the very manufacturer of taser and their own design process. If you're unwilling to even approach the functional mechanics involving electrical impulse and its effect on the body... then you have literally zero basis to dispute. Electricity isn't a monolith entity, you learn this in high school physics or even IPC courses. The human body works across RANGES of functionality and reactivity, because most chemistry is probabilistic based upon a variety of reasons, most commonly stereochemistry. Your claim that it is entirely binary is not just ignorance of the specific subject matter, but ignorance of fundamental science as it relates to the human body.

Don't be such a child. PCP is no wonder drug, but screwing with dopamine reception (among other things) produces a variety of irregular responses, one of which is complete disregard for self or others despite overwhelming stimuli to the contrary.

Sit down.

[Polyxo]

Your claim was that a taser only "fails" when it doesn't work or fails to connect. If the arc runs through your body, you're on the ground, end of. That is your claim. I walked you through why you're wrong, beginning with the very manufacturer of taser and their own design process. If you're unwilling to even approach the functional mechanics involving electrical impulse and its effect on the body... then you have literally zero basis to dispute. Electricity isn't a monolith entity, you learn this in high school physics or even IPC courses. The human body works across RANGES of functionality and reactivity, because most chemistry is probabilistic based upon a variety of reasons, most commonly stereochemistry. Your claim that it is entirely binary is not just ignorance of the specific subject matter, but ignorance of fundamental science as it relates to the human body.

Don't be such a child. PCP is no wonder drug, but screwing with dopamine reception (among other things) produces a variety of irregular responses, one of which is complete disregard for self or others despite overwhelming stimuli to the contrary.

Sit down.

As I said, you're not scientifically literate enough to discuss this. I didn't say that it only fails when it fails to connect or doesn't work. However, a taser's effectiveness is completely independent of any chemical that has any effect on neurotransmitters. You fundamentally don't understand what a taser is.

[Fasc]

As I said, you're not scientifically literate enough to discuss this. I didn't say that it only fails when it fails to connect or doesn't work. However, a taser's effectiveness is completely independent of any chemical that has any effect on neurotransmitters. You fundamentally don't understand what a taser is.

So... "nu uh"...

Okay then. I gave it one last shot and you stuck with your faux "smarter-than-thou" position.

/snicker

Pride is a helluva drug.

[Polyxo]

So... "nu uh"...

Okay then. I gave it one last shot and you stuck with your faux "smarter-than-thou" position.

/snicker

Pride is a helluva drug.

The problem is that again, you're either not educated enough, or not smart enough to even hold this discussion. You 1. don't understand what a taser is. 2. Don't understand how it produces its effect. 3. How normal neuron action is entirely irrelevant to this effect.

[Fasc]

The problem is that again, you're either not educated enough, or not smart enough to even hold this discussion. You 1. don't understand what a taser is. 2. Don't understand how it produces its effect. 3. How normal neuron action is entirely irrelevant to this effect.

You're still only presenting "nu uh"

But keep on keeping on. I do love how I don't know what a taser is when I link to an article that specifically pulls from TASER's site. Yup. Clearly don't know what it is. Yuuuuup.

"You don't know what a Corolla is!"
>Links to Toyota's website
"Listen you stupid person, you still don't know what a Corolla is!!"
>Sigh

Anecdotal evidence is against you.
Field studies are against you.
Medical studies are against you.

You might try finding some counter-factuals instead of just whining you're too smart for the rest of us.

[Polyxo]

You're still only presenting "nu uh"

But keep on keeping on. I do love how I don't know what a taser is when I link to an article that specifically pulls from TASER's site. Yup. Clearly don't know what it is. Yuuuuup.

"You don't know what a Corolla is!"
>Links to Toyota's website
"Listen you stupid person, you still don't know what a Corolla is!!"
>Sigh

Anecdotal evidence is against you.
Field studies are against you.
Medical studies are against you.

You might try finding some counter-factuals instead of just whining you're too smart for the rest of us.

Yes, and you weren't smart enough to understand what you posted. Your 'evidence' was not evidence at all. There are no medical studies contradicting this. There are no field studies contradicting this.

[Fasc]

Yes, and you weren't smart enough to understand what you posted. Your 'evidence' was not evidence at all. There are no medical studies contradicting this. There are no field studies contradicting this.

/snicker

You do realize that if your position is so sound that a singular publication about the efficacy of tasers or other electrical stimulation devices on any number of targeted groups showing no variation from group to group would suffice right? Muscles don't simply respond in a binary way when exposed to electrical current... this isn't complicated stuff and we wouldn't have the variety of diseases that exist involving involuntary or inability to contract even under stimulation.

I honestly think you're mostly hung up on the PCP thing though. Drugs are bad m'kay?

[the game]

/snicker

You do realize that if your position is so sound that a singular publication about the efficacy of tasers or other electrical stimulation devices on any number of targeted groups showing no variation from group to group would suffice right? Muscles don't simply respond in a binary way when exposed to electrical current... this isn't complicated stuff and we wouldn't have the variety of diseases that exist involving involuntary or inability to contract even under stimulation.

I honestly think you're mostly hung up on the PCP thing though. Drugs are bad m'kay?

I mean he can't even provide a legit counter argument aside from "nuh uh." It's funny that he keeps saying you aren't scientific enough for this conversation.

[zenkai]

You're apparently not scientifically literate enough to discuss this, as per the links you posted.

This totally counters all the links and everything he posted, well done!

[Polyxo]

This totally counters all the links and everything he posted, well done!

Well, considering the links have nothing to do with the argument at hand, yes.

[Fasc]

I mean he can't even provide a legit counter argument aside from "nuh uh." It's funny that he keeps saying you aren't scientific enough for this conversation.

"That evidence isn't valid!"

[Citation needed]

"You wouldn't understand!!!"

Oh.

[Laerrus]

This is why more police need to carry around non-lethal weapons that can quickly subdue aggressive criminals in addition to their handgun. Tazers, beanbag guns, mace, etc.

[Traveler Voltin]

This is why more police need to carry around non-lethal weapons that can quickly subdue aggressive criminals in addition to their handgun. Tazers, beanbag guns, mace, etc.

so you want them so weighted down they cant chase someone if the fool decided to run?

[Traveler Voltin]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/chicago-pol...ry?id=42827544

Footage released.

[Sunseeker]

so you want them so weighted down they cant chase someone if the fool decided to run?

Please a hand tazer weights like, half a pound, maybe. Tazer guns are mostly plastic. Beanbag guns would be the only thing with real weight, since they're basically shotguns. They already carry mace, it's no heavier than an asthma inhaler (that is to say, completely inconsequential). Yeah I kinda expect a cop to be fit enough not to be weighed down by oh, 20lbs. That's like, a bag of groceries.

[Darkrulerxxx]

Police charged the suspect with attempted murder and aggravated assault because he was using his BARE HANDS to smash her head on the concrete...definitely sounds like bare hands can be a deadly weapon and a reasonable expectation to use a weapon to subdue him. But some people on this forum will still argue against it.