A reminder that forum posters are NOT in the majority

[Irian]

I think MMO-C is only useful for gauging the opinions of a certain subset of the playerbase. That being said, that doesn't make an opinion less valid. Just because you don't agree with a complaint doesn't mean it doesn't have merit, for example I can speak to practically anyone on WoW at the moment and they'll all pretty much agree that the legendary system is dumb as hell, from the casual player to the hardcore player with his/her BiS pair.

I don't think anyone should take feedback as more or less than they ought to, and honestly the fact that you make this post tells me you're one of that guilty party that sees feedback as something more than what it is. Sure people on MMO-C bitch a lot, but I've never personally seen that as an issue because I'm fully aware that the majority of players are likely just enjoying the game and I think most players are as well.

[Vuagnon]

You talk like the majority of the subbed people play this game to full extent. I bet 70% of them don't even know what the hell is going on.

[Gestopft]

I don't spend much time talking about WoW on the forums; I'm too busy having fun.

[Flaks]

I wish I could say this is criticism like there was for wotlk or mop; both great expansions with flaws. But there's some core issues with legion from class mechanics to the mmo bread and butter loot pursuit. The latter had the community get used to a system that would allow alternative slower paths to getting gear when luck wasn't on your side. Without them it's obvious a lot of people are going to be peeved waiting on nothing but luck to progress your character.

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There is a big difference between criticism and shitposting. Criticism is suppose to be done in a civil manner. OP was right. Half forum posters are vikings who never left their room who lack vitamine D hung up on wow. they feel obligated and delusional that since they feel they are part of the blizzard team.

I cringe every time i see one of those posts.

Anyone whose been playing blizzard games within the last decade knows that shit posting nets a lot more results than constructive criticism with the company.

[roahn the warlock]

Let them weed out the entitled people. Nothing I hate more than the entitled players. Not happy that your character doesn't have all the Legendaries across all 12 toons, even though you aren't even within a stones throw of the top 100 raiding guilds?

Good, bye.

[WowIsDead64]

General Discussion has devolved into posting about how bad Legion is and why it sucks and why Blizzard sucks because it's not the perfect game. There's no civility here, and it's sad.

Just remember before you shitpost with another "I'm quitting cuz I got bad legendary" thread, YOU ARE THE MINORITY.

Wow has million of subs, actual millions. MMO Champ has a fraction of that in registered users, and of those not all of them use or even post on the forums. Remember that just because someone online agrees with you about Legion not being perfect doesn't mean you have an army of support against people who actually LIKE the game.

I play League of Legends, and the subreddit is the main place where discussion is had on the game. The game has 2 billion registered accounts compared to the sub having not even 1 million subscribers. That means the subreddit accounts for around 1% of the playerbase, and yet there have been many cases where reddit posts have caused direct community interaction from Riot Games. This is due to it being the largest representation of players online.

MMO Champ is NOT the same as the LoL Sub. It has nowhere near the power to command Blizzard's respect that the LoL sub does for LoL. Chances are Blizz may read a forum post or 2 but nothing you say or do on this forum will influence change in Blizzard's development of WoW, especially because of how uncivilized and irrational the posts have become.


That being said, feel free to keep posting whatever you want. Just remember that you are a small fish in gigantic seemingly endless ocean of people who play WoW and despite how righteous you feel your post may be it's not going to change anything.

Or better yet just don't post and maybe we can have some nice posts for a change.

Argument from ignorance

[Omega10]

This is my personal experience:

I have known quite a few WOW players over the 10+ years I have played. Purely casual.

No one else knows that MMO-Champion.com even exists.

Based on my experience: MMO-champions.com does not represent the WOW community AT ALL.
No one I have ever met who plays WOW has ever championed the issues that are discussed here.

Actually, they don't even know these issues are something that people actually discuss and argue over.

[Super Kami Dende]

Yeah, I've never understood the intense negativity on a FAN forum. It's always just seemed to me like the pathetic people who have nothing else going on for them in life that are so attached to WoW feel the need to be negative as fuck since it must be the only thing they feel they have any control over in their life.

One would assume if you hated something you wouldn't spend hours a day on a forum dedicated to it just wasting hour complaining about it.

I don't like GW2 even after having a max level character in it. Yet I don't feel the need to go to GW2 Forums and bitch and moan about how bad I personally think the game is. I just moved on from it and left it behind.

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Anyone whose been playing blizzard games within the last decade knows that shit posting nets a lot more results than constructive criticism with the company.

No it doesn't, all it leads to is circlejerking of pathetic dweebs crying on forums about how "BLIIZURD DUN COMMUNICATE!! WE DESERVE IT!!". I mean if you were Blizzard would you want to deal with the mouth breathing spastics that complain constantly on these and their forums?

[WowIsDead64]

"Players on forums - are vocal minority" - is very double-standarded thing. At least for Blizzard. Players, who complain on forums - are minority. Ok. What that means? That majority of players plays too casually to encounter all problems, described here. For example majority of players don't do Mythics, so lack of Legendaries - isn't actually problem for them. And who cares about minority of hardcores, who will play this game anyway, no matter what? But then... Why sometimes Blizzard listen to so called "hardcore" forum minority? Example: Garrisons. Ask everybody on this forums and he'll say, that Garrisons are terrible, anti-social, the reason of WOD's fail, etc. But who are all this people, who say it? They're hardcore minority, who exploited Garrisons too much, cuz they're competitive players, who want to have maximum efficiency. Majority players enjoyed Garrisons. And some, like me, still enjoy them. But all of a sudden whole idea was scrapped, instead of just tweaking it a little bit - making Garrisons account-wide for example.

[Vorkreist]

I remember your kind of white knighting during wod. It didn't take that long for the entire community to except the universal truth of just how shit that expansion ended up being. Same here. At one point you will have to take of those fanboy glasses off and realize a ton of people quit/ are quitting because of shit stated a million times already.

[Deztru]

I remember your kind of white knighting during wod. It didn't take that long for the entire community to except the universal truth of just how shit that expansion ended up being. Same here. At one point you will have to take of those fanboy glasses off and realize a ton of people quit/ are quitting because of shit stated a million times already.

In one way WoD was a magnitude better solely because it didn't have Artifact Traits and Power

As for OP, just look past the veil of hate on the forums, read and take part in constructive criticism about what could be better. If you can't see or just refuse to take part in making the game you like better then congratz it doesn't matter what part of the playerbase you represent.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I read these forums when I'm bored at work where I can't play the game.

When I get home and log in, no one is talking about this stuff. My guild mates are oblivious to these forums. Sure we're all a bit disappointed when we don't get useful loot, but we're pretty team-oriented in my guild; we run stuff together all the time, someone is always getting an upgrade, and when you're part of a tight group, anyone's upgrade is always progress for the team.

We're all having fun and no one is talking about the latest "I quit" thread on MMO-C. The one time I mentioned it while we were hanging out in Discord, they just laughed it off. One of them said the forums apparently hadn't changed since he last visited them 3 years ago.

[Sorshen]

Oh no, hate speech!

[Deleted]

General Discussion has devolved into posting about how bad Legion is and why it sucks and why Blizzard sucks because it's not the perfect game. There's no civility here, and it's sad.

Just remember before you shitpost with another "I'm quitting cuz I got bad legendary" thread, YOU ARE THE MINORITY.

Wow has million of subs, actual millions. MMO Champ has a fraction of that in registered users, and of those not all of them use or even post on the forums. Remember that just because someone online agrees with you about Legion not being perfect doesn't mean you have an army of support against people who actually LIKE the game.

I play League of Legends, and the subreddit is the main place where discussion is had on the game. The game has 2 billion registered accounts compared to the sub having not even 1 million subscribers. That means the subreddit accounts for around 1% of the playerbase, and yet there have been many cases where reddit posts have caused direct community interaction from Riot Games. This is due to it being the largest representation of players online.

MMO Champ is NOT the same as the LoL Sub. It has nowhere near the power to command Blizzard's respect that the LoL sub does for LoL. Chances are Blizz may read a forum post or 2 but nothing you say or do on this forum will influence change in Blizzard's development of WoW, especially because of how uncivilized and irrational the posts have become.


That being said, feel free to keep posting whatever you want. Just remember that you are a small fish in gigantic seemingly endless ocean of people who play WoW and despite how righteous you feel your post may be it's not going to change anything.

Or better yet just don't post and maybe we can have some nice posts for a change.

Actually you're wrong because :

1 - Sampling. The argument goes both way.
2 - On a forum like mmo champion there should be mostly people who are really into the game, as it is a specialized website. The fact that a lot of people complains should tell you there is an issue.
3 - People who no longer play the game simply stop posting stuff about it on the forums, they have more productive things to do.

Wow has million of subs, actual millions.

More like 1M6 currently, which isn't a lot compared to what the game used to have.

[goriander]

I'm still enjoying Legion even though it's obvious that most people are already quitting even before the first major patch. In earlier expansions only casuals quit playing a few months after a new expansion dropped but now even the hardcore players just lose interest in the game because of the legendary system. Some of them will surely start playing again when Blizzard admits they fucked up.

[Lei]

It would be awesome if people could understand just ONE thing: there is no constant minority or majority. "Steve", who hates legendaries won't necessarily hate AP grinding, so while "Steve" is majority in hating legendaries could be minority in his AP grind opinion.
If you think there are simply "wow lovers" who love just about everything in this game and "wow haters" who bitch about everything, then you are incredibly delusional and naive. Also people who don't post here also have their own opinion, they just don't express it on these forums. Which doesn't mean they are happy with it.
I'm so fucking tired of this "blahblah, you are the minority!" crap.
Also if 1000 "Georges" quit the game because legendaries, and 1000 "Michaels" quit because the AP grind, and 1000 "Jonases" quit because mythic+ farm, who the fuck cares if they are minority or majority, it adds up and it hurts the game, leading to low activity and guilds disbanding etc.

Edit: also if we have players like "Linda", who would raid a training dummy in Stormwind for years if it dropped loot and be completely happy with it, and we have players like "Gabe", who would like to see progressing reps like in MoP, creating content for "Gabe" would be more beneficial (and harder), because Linda would do just about anything and be happy while "Gabe" some sort of demands quality. And I think Legion is full of content for players like "Linda", sadly. So if you want "Lindas" in the game with "Linda-quality" content, then you are on the right track, I guess, because that is where this game is heading.

[Aggrophobic]

By becoming a shit throwing monkey yourself you don't help the problem. There are better ways to put it than that.



I mean, I personally like it, I've seen a few threads that like the Legendary system because it's very Diablo-esque or rewards players who grind more than those who don't. I can understand the frustration of getting 2 non-dps increasing legendaries on a dps class.

The point is that clearly the system is going to stay, and there are no good alternatives to Blizz. If it was so bad that noone liked the system then the system would go away. Feedback has changed the game even THIS expansion with things like 7.1's shadow priest nerfs getting reverted due to negative feedback.

Blizzard has made it very clear that they are going to solve problems this expansion, and in their Q/A streams they've made it clear that people's negative views on the new system have prompted a nerf to dps increasing legendaries across all classes. The negative feedback has ALREADY caused Blizz to make changes.

If the whining worked why are there still threads about it? 1.5 isnt even out and people are still playing the game grumbling about the Legendary system that they changed.

RNG is good for the game, if there was no RNG everyone would have the same 2 Legendaries and it would just be cookie cutter BiS builds on everyone. If that's the kind of binary system you want then I'm sorry for you cuz Blizzard isn't going to make it that way. I'd rather have a fun time opening chests and getting pleasantly surprised when I get a shiny new Legendary I wasn't expecting but am glad to have.

They are going to solve problems yet they made an expantion filled with such game breaking issues that peaople are leaving? Yeah, thats going well.

And no, RNG is not good for the game. You have no idea what you're talking about. People without the same legendaries are benched. The game starts when you get your BiS legendaries. Thats what Legion is about. Getting thoes two legendaries you need and some AP while you grind them.

Once you've done Maw of Souls 400+ times I'm sure you'll understand.

The game is not fun.

[Lilija]

Translation = ONLY POST POSITIVE DON'T CRITICIZE MY HOBBY

There is criticizm and there is whining. The first one is pretty rare on mmoc. The second one is pretty massive.

I've criticized plenty of things in WoW during those 11 years. But I would never say things like: "change this or I will quit", "this feature is ruining whole game", "I quit because of this feature and it means that Blizzard hates me". Currently I'm pretty critical towards the legendary system. I think it was a bad idea. Blizzard realized that it was a bad idea and it didn't work the way they planned. I still enjoy the game. We can all move on with our lives.

[Lei]

There is criticizm and there is whining. The first one is pretty rare on mmoc. The second one is pretty massive.

I've criticized plenty of things in WoW during those 11 years. But I would never say things like: "change this or I will quit", "this feature is ruining whole game", "I quit because of this feature and it means that Blizzard hates me". Currently I'm pretty critical towards the legendary system. I think it was a bad idea. Blizzard realized that it was a bad idea and it didn't work the way they planned. I still enjoy the game. We can all move on with our lives.

If a feature in the game greatly affects your time spent in it, and you happen to really dislike said feature, and you see no changes to it, then why wouldn't you quit? Why would you even spend time to nourish the very thing you dislike? For me not quitting is more mind boggling. If you can avoid the thing you dislike (pet battling doesn't require legendaries or AP grind for example) and do something else in the game then it's all fine and dandy, but what if you can't? For me "bending over" and doing things you despise (grinding ap, mythics, legendaries) is more questionable than quitting.
For example you see top guilds complaining about these features, but noone is quitting. They bend over, for god knows why, maybe because the fame, or money.
And I'm not talking about small problems here like "oh, *dramatic pose* I had to do 20 dailies to get revered with the golden lotus to open up shado pan". We are talking about 800+ mythic+ dungeons, doing everything on 3-4 alts, multiboxing, and split runs and throwing characters into the trash when they didn't get the good legendaries for gods sake.

[Lilija]

For example you see top guilds complaining about these features, but noone is quitting. They bend over, for god knows why, maybe because the fame, or money.

Maybe, just maybe, one feature isn't enough of a reason to quit. Maybe you still like some other features.

I personally find dramatic quits over one feature and posting about it on the forums really childish. If you don't like it so much just quit. If you don't like something, quit over it and constantly write about it on the forums it means you did not get over it. This is what is a problem. It's "this is my opinion, it's important, CARE ABOUT IT". People forget that their opinions are important only to themselves.

I guildy of mine quit some time ago because he didn't enjoy Legion. No forum posts, no drama and most likely he will be back to check out the next expantion.

I dislike the legendary system but I like everything else. Why on earth would I quit?

Anyway THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MAJORITY IN WOW. We are all parts of several minorities. Remembering this can greatly increase the quality of our criticism.