So whats best talent choices in each row now for sub?
Last edited by shaunika123; 2017-06-16 at 11:33 AM.
I simmed myself using latest nightly build and something like 2310022 was highest. Turns out many in discord also had that as best as well. That said, the top 5 were within ~7k so probably not that big a deal. Gloomblade build quote high as well. Took a SS of part of it but I'm lying in bed at the moment so if anyone is curious I can post a link.
https://riff.tf/guide/subtlety/#talents
Still subject to change and still very much a WIP. People are trending towards Dark Shadows to try to line up the DfA with SoD and Finality and ShD for big crits (also fights being shorter favours DS over Alacrity). I, myself, have landed 8-9M Eviscerates. That said, I find you don't always land time it properly and the evisc is 'wasted', not to mention WM (possibly DfA itself is bugged?) sometimes lands you on a completely different target and causes you to be facing the wrong way so then it's completely wasted. With ToS coming out talents are like to change a bit but generally speaking you're ok with either a) WM or GB b)DS or Alacrity and c) MfD or DfA. This is, with bracers+mantle combo. I think you want to roll Subterfuge instead of SF if you're using boots. I think if you want something more consistent without the clunkiness of having to time a dance within a fraction of a second then roll with MfD otherwise have fun with phat crits.
played around with it more. I think it's the fact that since Shadowstrike lost its teleport, Shadowfocus is the more reliable version of the legendary boots. The extra shadowstrike in subterfuge seems to be a lot more harder to execute because of what they did with relentless strikes /energetic stab (nerfed the energy spikes)
So the energy return from shadow focus seems to overtake that extra shadowstrike and makes the rotation more smooth. It's not that shadowfocus is so dam good but it allows us to toss the boots away and use the wrists instead
The legendary wrists were already good with high uptime on shadow blades but we could never take it because the energy regen from boots and power of shoulders were too good to pass up. So in theory we have absorbed the boots as a talent and now taken the next two best legendaries = shoulders/wrists
- - - Updated - - -
More energy from shadow focus = more energy to do the newly buffed backstab.
You're not taking into consideration the fact that with SF you save around 40 energy per dance (9 for evis, 10 for SS), which is more than one backstab
idk if that's enough but there's definitely a DPS increase in there in energy saved. Also with subterfuge if you fuck up even one dance and only get 4 globals in, SF probably pulls ahead considerably. But then there are things like m+ where subterfuge is probably always better
On Riff guide he post there this opening
Shadowstrike
Backstab
Nightblade
Shadow Dance
Shadowstrike
Symbols of Death
Shadowstrike
Eviscerate
Shadowstrike
Backstab
Vanish
Death from Above, use Shadow Dance before the Eviscerate part hits
but i cant even spamming the hotkey use shadow dance before the hit.
Practicing Sub in Heroic. Think I'm getting the hang of it - Krosus is a fight I feel like I played pretty well on. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done Any feedback? Some wasted Energy and CP, but that seems unavoidable in this spec.
Ankleshanker, 110 Rogue, Aerie Peak US
I have no idea how to put Death from Above in my rotation, it's quite a jump from what i was used to. How better is it in comparison to the other talents in the roll?
looking forward to a good APL for 1212233 spec with shoulders+vigor ring
the damage potential of DFA is insane in pve. AoE situations are improving the ST dps even further (shuriken storm stacks).
Ankleshanker, 110 Rogue, Aerie Peak US
Practised hc yday as well
It was fucking awesome!!
Been a while since i topped the meter on almost every boss ...the whole time i was sitting with a smile on my face thinking: this plays so much better live than i could have ever hoper for, burriying sin rogues with similar gear and getting constant whisper bout playstyle from the other subs
If i had a shadow of a doubt wether to swap, it has been deleted - only big changes to output this coming week can change my mind.
And tes idd, the ability to convert aoe to st whith option of regening sd charges is so damn cool... I died due to stacking of plagies on ticho and managed to do 1.1mill +
One thing tho: have to rebind ss/bs to a side mousebutton to avoid carpal tunnel lol
Talents: 1110013
Legendaries: Mantle+Bracers
My opening looks like this:
(SB)SS->Bite->NB->(Dance)SS->(Symbols)SS->Evis->SS->(Vanish)SS->DfA(Dance)->SS->SS->Evis->SS
During this opening I am pulling around 2m dps and after 4 minutes I am still at 1m dps. This is completely unbuffed on a boss puppet at ilvl913.
I don't get it, people are saying Dark Shadow build left and right, including Riff's guide, but all the data on WarcraftLogs pretty clearly shows a Shadow Focus - Enveloping Shadows - Master of Shadows build to be better on single target. Those talents are on average higher than their counterparts on virtually every fight: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...lents®ion=3
You can see the same if you look at the top 100 Sub parses on most fights: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...63&partition=3 Here's Star Augur
Am I missing something? Dark Shadow - DFA build seems more complex AND performs worse. If you look at some AoE fights, it pulls ahead, but as far as I can tell, people are recommending it even on ST. Riff doesn't even mention Enveloping Shadows at all in his guide, only listing Dark Shadows and Alacrity as viable options.
Ankleshanker, 110 Rogue, Aerie Peak US
I think we will have two possible builds in the future. The DS one and a more like the old one with constant dance uptime.
For me personally the DS build is good in very short fights or fights where you excactly know how that fight will be. In other words i don't think that build will be good in progression because one mistake can ruin everything.
As the patch went live i accidentally used the DS build from the guide because i was experimenting and in EN M i out dpsed another sub rogue who had the same itemlvl
but used "the old build". It was not really much but as longer as the fight went on he came closer or even overtook. I don't know if i played that build 100% correct but i tried to do as much damage with dfa, sod and dance like a wod playstyle.
DS build is very much like DH with their meta burst when it's ready and mantle buff is a huge gain for these burst windows.
Lets see what the future brings.
It's because the current set bonus favors ES builds, which will change in a week. I didn't even bother with ES. Even if it should be better with T20 I'll still play DS because of personal preference.