Back to the 1930s: the hammer, sickle and swastika

[Bakis]

I've been saying this for almost a year now. Greece is going to become hard line communist or fascist in the future if they haven't either left the EU or been kicked out.

There's no solution for them if they don't control their own currency.

Repudiating the debt is not an option worth considering if they ever hope to function in the future.

/facepalm. How did you manage to dream that up.

[Reeve]

"Consider what they are telling the Greek people: They are saying that Greece, to remain in the Eurozone, must,

(a) carry on borrowing from the EFSF at 4% (and thus adding to Greece’s public debt) in order to pay the ECB (which will be making a 20% profit from these payments, courtesy of the fact that it had previously bought Greece’s bonds at a 20% to 30% discount)

(b) reduce public spending by 12 billion euros in order to be ‘allowed’ to borrow for the benefit of bolstering the ECB’s profits from these transactions involving bankrupt Greece.

He's calling that the "satanic scenario?" Seriously? The ECB acquired the Greek debt at that discount in order to alleviate the systemic risk of the banks continuing to hold what is considered bad debt. They're allowing Greece to continue to repay that debt at reasonable rates (especially compared with the 6.9% rates Spain is paying) and helping provide them with the means of doing so. In a world where the EU isn't doing their level best to HELP Greece, Greece would be paying 10% for their debt, which of course would end in default and collapse.

If the EU and the ECB were to stop lending money to Greece right now, it would be a nightmare for the whole EU, but Greece for sure would collapse economically. You think the political situation is bad there now? Just wait until there's a default. Greece is hanging off the edge of a cliff right now, and when the ECB reaches down to give them a hand up, they're complaining that it's not the hand of a beautiful woman.

[Laize]

/facepalm. How did you manage to dream that up.

Dream what up? The fact that there is no solution for the Greeks beyond leaving the EU?

Im not sure where I "dreamed it up". Possibly somewhere between the fact that they owe 150% of their GDP in debt and austerity damages the economy which turns into a vicious cycle.

If they controlled their own currency they could enact fiscal policy to stimulate their economy rather than force austerity and damage it.

There are people out there who suggest Greece simply repudiate their debt. I can't think of a dumber idea at this point.

[Reeve]

Dream what up? The fact that there is no solution for the Greeks beyond leaving the EU?

Im not sure where I "dreamed it up". Possibly somewhere between the fact that they owe 150% of their GDP in debt and austerity damages the economy which turns into a vicious cycle.

If they controlled their own currency they could enact fiscal policy to stimulate their economy rather than force austerity and damage it.

There are people out there who suggest Greece simply repudiate their debt. I can't think of a dumber idea at this point.

While I don't disagree with you, I never figured you for the kind of guy who would promote stimulative fiscal policy.

[Daelak]

The largest problem in Greece right now is the fact that they have a lousy tax collections system. Half of the working population evade taxes and they fire the tax collectors. Their cash flow is so erratic that they don't even know how much they will have as a government two months from now.

They need to strengthen their tax code and make sure they receive the taxation.

[Laize]

While I don't disagree with you, I never figured you for the kind of guy who would promote stimulative fiscal policy.

While I don't think Keynesian economics are the best course of action, I recognize their merits in socialist nations.

I'm capable of looking at things from other points of view.

[Daelak]

While I don't think Keynesian economics are the best course of action, I recognize their merits in socialist nations.

I'm capable of looking at things from other points of view.

Greece is less of a welfare state than Germany, Denmark, and Sweden.

Next.......

[Laize]

Greece is less of a welfare state than Germany, Denmark, and Sweden.

Next.......

I said nothing about the presence of social programs being the cause of their problems. Their problem is they've been spending more than they've been taking in. Their debt far exceeds their ability to pay right now. Austerity doesn't help stimulate an economy and by extension doesn't help their ability to pay.

[Daelak]

I said nothing about the presence of social programs being the cause of their problems. Their problem is they've been spending more than they've been taking in. Their debt far exceeds their ability to pay right now. Austerity doesn't help stimulate an economy and by extension doesn't help their ability to pay.

They have a horrible tax collections system and your usual irrational institutional investors like GS and their European counterparts made their usual irrational (read: short-term) investment decisions on Greece in 2000 which created a bubble.

[Laize]

They have a horrible tax collections system and your usual irrational institutional investors like GS and their European counterparts made their usual irrational (read: short-term) investment decisions on Greece in 2000 which created a bubble.

So they don't collect their own taxes and their lenders are UNJUSTIFIED in increasing their costs of borrowing?

[Bakis]

Dream what up? The fact that there is no solution for the Greeks beyond leaving the EU?

Im not sure where I "dreamed it up". Possibly somewhere between the fact that they owe 150% of their GDP in debt and austerity damages the economy which turns into a vicious cycle.

If they controlled their own currency they could enact fiscal policy to stimulate their economy rather than force austerity and damage it.

There are people out there who suggest Greece simply repudiate their debt. I can't think of a dumber idea at this point.

I meant this

Greece is going to become hard line communist or fascist in the future

[Daelak]

So they don't collect their own taxes and their lenders are UNJUSTIFIED in increasing their costs of borrowing?

Lol no the lenders are completely justified, I am just saying investment banks sold a bill of goods that they hyped up out of proportion, per usual. I think they should leave the Euro and enter at a later date.

[Deleted]

If the greeks government did not lie and missmanage their economy so bad there would be no need for loans comming with the demand for reform and cut-downs.
Without Germany, Greece would be bankrupt already, many greeks are really ungrateful who like to blame others for their own short commings.
The blame lies at the hand of corrupt politicians and the doubtful moral of the population that see tax evasion as a national sport, noone else.

Pretty much summed it up.

[ambigiouslynamed]

I for one will enjoy the inevitable firebombing of Greece in the coming war

~ Infracted

[Deleted]

I for one will enjoy the inevitable firebombing of Greece in the coming war

Lol dafaq?^

[Laize]

I meant this

It's well documented that when a government catastrophically fails due to policies that have caused it, the government that rises out of the rubble is almost always extremely authoritarian.

Weimar republic.

Russian empire

There are more but I'm eating lunch.

[Archangel Tyrael]

What I get from this post, like every other post about Greece.

Poor souls, those of corrupt European countries, Germany is evil and is the new America.

[Reeve]

What I get from this post, like every other post about Greece.

Poor souls, those of corrupt European countries, Germany is evil and is the new America.

Plenty of room in our club, Germany!

[Bakis]

Plenty of room in our club, Germany!

Germans are closing in on obesity, they are at 1/3 as many as you amurikans, soon we cant tell you apart!

[Reeve]

Germans are closing in on obesity, they are at 1/3 as many as you amurikans, soon we cant tell you apart!

Good news for the American Cotton industry! More fabric needed.