Last edited by JackWest; 2018-09-01 at 11:54 AM.
With all that data blizz got- punishing abusers definitely makes sense and makes a better and less toxic community at a small price.
Hopefully they are watching what's going on and if ridiculous abusing/trading somehow persists they could just take one more step and completely shut down loot trading.
EPGP was the best overall system for the majority of raiding guilds. Loot council was for guilds that prioritized killing the boss way above the gear.
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100% this. Now there is zero incentive to keep people wiping on hard bosses.
That's what ML did for players, if the system was set up for longevity, they knew if they just stuck around they would get rewarded. Now players can get their rewards at Blizzard's leisure and take off when things go sour.
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Guilds and people like you are rare. Kudos to your guild. Your guild's focus was in the right place. I wish you and your guild much success because you have the right attitude.
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This. There was no outcry from players regarding ML. Blizzard just wanted to shut down a supposed myth.
If there's one thing to say will change, it's that guilds will place even more emphasis than ever on finding guild members dedicated to their specific goals (whatever they may be) as you now no longer have any control over some social walking away with a maxed titanforge trinket/weapon that one of the core raiders really needed.
Rather than making raid loot some kind of utopic distribution of wealth, what's really going to happen is that raids will become more insular and more exclusive than ever before, fulfilling the prophecy of the toxic guild group from a completely different angle.
In short, nothing about this change is going to help, at all. Any design choices that eliminate player choice is bad and will forever be bad. I have no issues with Personal Loot as a system, but the removal of our right to choose it in the content we participate in is bad design and deserves no love.
Enjoy spending more time recruiting, once guildies get loot and your guild hits a wall, there is no incentive for them to stay.
If you're ok with it now, cool. But don't come here bitching when your trials snake your gear and ditch you after two weeks for a guild that a boss or two ahead of you.
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WHen it comes to ML being taken advantage of, from my experience, it gets noticed right away and kills guilds right away. The bad officers usually don't have a guild for very long if they are doing that.
The fact of the matter is every guild is different. PL may be the fairest system for certain guilds. But the freedom of choosing your loot system that best suited your guild is the real problem. PL was an option in Legion.
Some guilds want LC for rankings. Some guilds want EPGP/DKP due to attendance issues.
We lost the choice. That's the problem.
If your guild is making people hand items to someone so they can be doled out, then that group has assholes as leaders. ML was removed because Blizzard was sick of the abuse that came with it. What do you think is going to happen if guilds keep on acting like assholes? They will remove the ability to trade items. They better start with guilds first because they are the ones who ruined it in the first place.
I ran a guild for 3 years in which I tried mightily to find members dedicated to the guild's specific goals. I believe nearly all guilds try to find members that fit their goals. It was hard for me to do that for 3 years, i'd imagine it is now 100000% harder now that they have no control or freedom.
But you are right, any design choice that eliminates player choice is bad.
This is a red herring. Blizzard has proven time and time again that gear has less to do with reaching dps requirements than skill. Those 20 guilds killing it first week? Yeah maybe, but all of the other try-hards should just play better. That is the same whether you are doing normal or heroic as well. "Optimizing" gear was just guild leadership abusing the rest of the guild and handing loot to their friends first. The abuse had to stop. Blizzard listened and they took away ML. Now jerks are going to try and rort the system again? Incoming no loot trading in Mythic Raids.
Are you delusional?
If ML was such an abuse, why did nearly 90% of guilds utilize it? Why didn't they all collapse and the former members form a guild that used PL?
The majority of guilds don't act like assholes or they wouldn't have players to fill their ranks.
I can already see with your attitude what type of player you were. If I were to guess, you were in a guild with LC and was passed up because you weren't cutting enough mustard to get the best items first. Maybe I'm wrong.
Or maybe you should've started your own guild with PL last expac. Or hell start your own guild now and see how difficult it will be with this change. I dare you.
Unfortunately this change will bring out some crap. Being "forced" to trade an item you don't need to a guild member that could use it more is probably what's best for the guild. If you have an item that you do not need and a member could use it more, that's what's best for the guild to kill future bosses. If you can't play ball with that, then you are more concerned with your own ilvl than your guild's success. At that point, you are selfish and should probably play a single-player RPG.
Looks like we have a guild officer here folks. It has been proven on this very website that Council loot was very unpopular. Blizzard listened and took ML away from you. It was 6 months ago that we found out the news and here we are still going on about it. "Guys, how can we keep on being assholes and gear our friends first". That's the attitude that lost you ML in the first place and now you're going to get gear trading taken away as well.
If you're just going to make wild accusations and lose the plot just refrain. It's embarrassing to you, it is awkward for me, and frankly, it isn't warranted. Actually do what you want with the gear. Just don't pretend that it's a master plan and you're doing it for the "good of the guild". You are doing it to gear your friends.
I've been in the same guild for 11 years now. Literally grew up with it. Was made GM once, tried to get someone else to do it for a year, it got thrown back to me immediately after. I've done solo Master Looter for three expansions straight with zero loot complaints from a guild that raids low end mythic. To see the choice be taken away fills me with an anguish that I lack the words to describe sufficiently. And the sad thing, is that the guilds who have always known why these systems were in place will cope with the changes, raids will move on, we all know loot drops again.
My guild ran EPGP. There was no controversy because the numbers didn't lie. If you showed up, you got gear. LC would not have worked for my guild. But it worked for other guilds. This myth you are perpetuating is clearly the sign of an inferior player that was too lazy to start your own guild (since you clearly know everything about running one).
You've been on this thread spewing unsubstantiated garbage that all guilds steal gear from players. It's a lie.
The attitude that clearly didn't get you any gear from LC is the attitude you are displaying. You felt entitled to loot. You had a choice to leave those guilds and go to a guild that suited your selfish needs. It's players like you that drive GMs crazy. Selfish, bad, and entitled. I bet guilds are lining up to add you to their roster after reading this.
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Its unfortunate for the many good guilds out there like the one you are in. If your guild is strong enough, you will adapt and move on. For guilds that have baddies like munkeyinorbit in their guild, best of luck.