[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Eleccybubb]

And why do you care if we discuss this game in positive or negative tones? You don't get to decide what people choose to talk about. I find it fascinating that a game that has taken in this much money has failed to produce a game by this point. So far they are one of the biggest cautionary tales about crowdfunding and I want to see if they go splat or actually manage a game. If they do manage to put out a game I want to see what that much money managed to create.

Cautionary is being generous in this games case to be honest.....

[Malibutomi]

So what's going on with this game? Checking from time to time. Fairly hyped about it, although I'm careful considering the humongous target the game has set for itself. How's it going?

Well as of now it seems they laid down the core tech, and started adding more places, content, professions.
In short they started to fill up the world. I would suggest you look for a free fly weekend (you just missed the free fly week sadly), and try it out for free and see for yourself if it gives enough for you, or not yet. The game is still alpha, so bugs are plentyful, and it just started to take shape, so you can see how much potential it has, if it doesn't have enough content for you, then come back again in a few months and try it again for free.
Only put in money if you feel like it's worth it for you.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

So what's going on with this game? Checking from time to time. Fairly hyped about it, although I'm careful considering the humongous target the game has set for itself. How's it going?

They've established planetary tech; now they need to make more planetary assets so they can create additional planets without simply duplicating what we've already seen in Hurston. They're also working on creating new mission types and scenarios. Up until this point, what we've seen was CIG laying down the foundation, now we're starting to see them use those systems to create content.

Currently we have:
- over two dozen different flyable ships right now, including multicrew ships that allow people to man turrets. More systems like engineering, tractor beams, medbays, etc, are in the works.
- spinning moons and planets to land on, with settlements to visit and do missions in and around. With the system implemented, the team needs to develop more planet and settlement assets.
- Space stations (large like Port Olisar and small like a gas station) to land at, shop, and maintain the ship.
- One small colony on Delemer, Levski, and a large city to visit, Loreville, on Hurston, with multiple districts, trains connecting them, etc. The next one, Arc Corp, is on the way.
- a crime system, with the ability to commit crimes, be attacked by guards, be attacked by other players, and ability to reset crime status at the Security Post. will be expanded upon.
- ground vehicles with weapons
- Basic player customization, DNA system and female characters to be added later.
- FPS combat, able to buy armor and weapons and kill other players
- Racing (ground vehicles or spaceships)
- Mining
- missions: fight AI bandits in ships or on the ground, haul cargo, salvage wrecks, fix satellites, and questgivers. More mission types, such as investigating crashes, will be added.


You can check the roadmap here.

As of right now, Star Citizen is the type of game where you make up your own fun. The game is now running much better, and I'm getting decent framrate (improvements have been made with each patch and it's reportedly smooth, haven't logged in since the patch to check) at Loreville, with the rest of the game being smooth on my GTX 670 on the lowest settings. If you're a solo player, there's not much to do besides doing those handful of contracts. Contracts give so little money, the cost of ships and vehicles are so high, and the servers reset so often that I recommend that you do not try to save up for a bigger ship/vehicle and instead just pour that money into buying ground based weapons and armor and go stalk players leaving and approaching Loreville/Levski/Port Olisar/GrimHex/Security Post Karreah. GrimHex has a small armistice zone around it so you can nab people before they're able to land or quantum jump out, and you can wait inside the security post and try to kill whoever comes in. Obviously, you'll have a much more fun time if you're able to join a group or you're able to attend a coordinated event.

Quick tip: don't bother trying to save up for a ship or a vehicle, so just spend your free 15000 starting credits on personal armor or weapons. Levski (a small base with a shop on the moon Delamar) has a cool light armor set with a cloak if you value aesthetics, as well as grenades.

There isn't much in the way of content, so you'll have the most fun if you can find other players to play with. I've found manning turrets on multicrew ships to be more entertaining than flying my own ship hunting down NPC bandits, because with turrets there is a social aspect and the teamwork involved in trying to angle the ship so that the turret can hit the target. BEWARE STOWAWAYS! Ofcourse, if you want to go alone, you can just try to ambush and kill other players. If you want to do so, jump to the moon around Crusader, Celin, and then to Security Post Karreah, and kill whoever you can. With the upcoming patches that will add more content in the area around Loreville, you will also be able to hunt players who leave the safety of the city, either on foot or in the air. Alternatively, if you're feeling really nasty, you can group up with other players, and while they're piloting the ship... you can kill everyone on board and steal the ship for yourself! RIP your reputation though and finding any other groups for the day.

As always, I recommend the people interested in the game that the buy in only if they like the game as it is right now. I myself have had a ton of fun in the current state of the game and got my money's worth, and I eagerly look forward to new additions to the game. If you're going to buy in, I'd advise you to only buy the base game package, MAYBE a small ship if you want to start out in something bigger than an Aurora or a Mustang.

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What makes Star Citizen's development incredible in the field of game development:

[Eleccybubb]

So what's going on with this game? Checking from time to time. Fairly hyped about it, although I'm careful considering the humongous target the game has set for itself. How's it going?

I personally wouldn't recommend it atm mate. But it's your money at the end of the day ofc. If you want it you buy it.

The games P2W in a bloody Alpha. Says a lot right there. But apparently "BUYING BIGGER AND BETTER SHIPS ISN'T P2W" or "Oh they are going to stop selling them when it launches" somehow makes it better.

You can buy bigger and better ships in the game right now with real money. That's exactly what P2W is. Yes you need people to man them ofc but it's more than likely if people are buying these ships then they have that covered.

Not to mention there's a $27000 pack for "supporting the game".

There are plenty of good games out there. This is not one of them. It's taken 200 million in funding and quite frankly has nothing amazing or "revolutionary" in it's genre to show for it so far.

So basically wait until it's finished imo which has yet to be determined. Or if it ever will be.

[stellvia]

And why do you care if we discuss this game in positive or negative tones? You don't get to decide what people choose to talk about. I find it fascinating that a game that has taken in this much money has failed to produce a game by this point. So far they are one of the biggest cautionary tales about crowdfunding and I want to see if they go splat or actually manage a game. If they do manage to put out a game I want to see what that much money managed to create.

I think what he takes offense at, which isn't necessarily on you specifically, is it always seems like the most vocally against the game have the least actual exposure to the game or they wouldn't be making the statements they come here saying. Certainly, the game has had many setbacks ranging from management and structural issues, to numerous seen and unforeseen technical complications. But they've clearly been making consistent and steady progress for about the last 1.5 years. To deny that means someone either hasn't been looking, or doesn't want to and is just throwing a tantrum about how they Want it Now.

Studio Lead of Rockstar North, Rob Nelson stated that production for Red Dead Redemption 2 started shortly after the release of RDR in 2010 and took the better part of 8 years to develop. He stated it required them to do significant internal restructuring to allow for all their studios to work as one unit. GTA5 reportedly cost $265M to make (sans marketing costs) and the likely budget for RDR2 is somewhere in the range of $300M given those costs and the number of developers Rockstar has said were working on the project in primary production.

Given the parallels in trajectory between that and Star Citizen, I don't think what we've seen happen has been TOO much of a stretch. Especially given the fact Rockstar already had their studios humming along and RSI needed several years to build up and structure their operations properly. Issues, yes. Reasons for disappointment at times, yes. Justification to still be heavily against the game/"vaporware" at this juncture? None really.

- - - Updated - - -

So what's going on with this game? Checking from time to time. Fairly hyped about it, although I'm careful considering the humongous target the game has set for itself. How's it going?

As a small addendum to what Val posted: Maybe I'm just bad, but I find that the 6DoF controls take a lot of getting used to via KBM. (Maybe I should just try using controller for now, I've heard good things) You need to use decoupled mode I think to make pitch/yaw work how I expect I think is my issue. They have a thin vertical slice in place right now, but it's still missing a lot of the key systems yet and there hasn't been any fine-tuning for things like travel time. Even when the game is finished, it's going to be a "slow burn" though: Much like Red Dead Redemption 2, it's meant to be a life simulator of sorts, so expect a lot of deliberate details to be needed. (Reminded of how deliberate the cooking and hunting systems are in RDR2)

Ignore Elecy though. There are several reasonable detractors from the game here that debate in good faith, he is not one of them. The majority of what he says has either been debunked many times or is exaggerated for disingenuous purposes.

[Eleccybubb]

No, you are not.


Doesn’t that go both ways? I mean, you already supported the “dream”, why are you concerned about what others care about at this point?

Exactly. Go enjoy the game and stop caring what others think. If you enjoy it then fine and if others want to be critical of it then fine.

[Dhrizzle]

As a small addendum to what Val posted: Maybe I'm just bad, but I find that the 6DoF controls take a lot of getting used to via KBM. (Maybe I should just try using controller for now, I've heard good things) You need to use decoupled mode I think to make pitch/yaw work how I expect I think is my issue. They have a thin vertical slice in place right now, but it's still missing a lot of the key systems yet and there hasn't been any fine-tuning for things like travel time. Even when the game is finished, it's going to be a "slow burn" though: Much like Red Dead Redemption 2, it's meant to be a life simulator of sorts, so expect a lot of deliberate details to be needed. (Reminded of how deliberate the cooking and hunting systems are in RDR2)

Ignore Elecy though. There are several reasonable detractors from the game here that debate in good faith, he is not one of them. The majority of what he says has either been debunked many times or is exaggerated for disingenuous purposes.

I wouldn't dream of playing this kind of game with KBM. With Elite: Dangerous I managed to work out a pretty nice system for an X-Box controller but if you think you're going to spend a decent amount of time playing I sincerely recommend getting some sort of HOTAS system. I got a pretty cheap Thrustmaster HOTAS-X (about £40) and it made the experience so much more enjoyable in terms of immersion.

[stellvia]

I'll likely get a HOTAS system eventually, but I'm holding off until they deliver the game. There are still a lot of IFs surrounding how all the combat and economic systems will work, so I won't go all in until I'm sure I'll stick with the game for a long time. I've also heard people say that due to gimbal guns and such it's actually superior to use a controller than a HOTAS atm.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I haven't gotten a HOTAS yet because I have a small desk to play on (can hold my monitor, a keyboard, my stuffed Stitches from Blizzcon, and a couple bowls of food), and I have very little room on the bookshelf to put stuff. Plus, I'd prefer to be able to just open up the RSI launcher and hop into Star Citizen without having to spend five minutes removing a big setup from the bookshelf while knocking things over, unwinding cords, reaching over trying to plug them, trying to push my monitor slightly off of my desk to make more room, trying to change the distance from by chair to the desk, etc.

[Odeezee]

I'll likely get a HOTAS system eventually, but I'm holding off until they deliver the game. There are still a lot of IFs surrounding how all the combat and economic systems will work, so I won't go all in until I'm sure I'll stick with the game for a long time. I've also heard people say that due to gimbal guns and such it's actually superior to use a controller than a HOTAS atm.

nah, not from what i have heard for flight immersion it goes KB&M < HOTAS < HOSAS < HOMAS! but yeah i would wait until the game goes gold before buying into peripherals if you don't play any other space sims and maybe they would have finally found a partner for Star Citizen themed peripherals. i am hoping they go with Vorpil they seem to make great quality products at a more valuable price than like Warthogs. oh and FOIP is going to be something crazy once it's server side and has the software, accuracy, latency and de-sync issues sorted out it'll be amazing for general immersion and machinima.

[Malibutomi]

I personally wouldn't recommend it atm mate. But it's your money at the end of the day ofc. If you want it you buy it.

The games P2W in a bloody Alpha. Says a lot right there. But apparently "BUYING BIGGER AND BETTER SHIPS ISN'T P2W" or "Oh they are going to stop selling them when it launches" somehow makes it better.

You can buy bigger and better ships in the game right now with real money. That's exactly what P2W is. Yes you need people to man them ofc but it's more than likely if people are buying these ships then they have that covered.

Not to mention there's a $27000 pack for "supporting the game".

There are plenty of good games out there. This is not one of them. It's taken 200 million in funding and quite frankly has nothing amazing or "revolutionary" in it's genre to show for it so far.

So basically wait until it's finished imo which has yet to be determined. Or if it ever will be.

Well it's P2W in the narrow minded book like you who can't get over fighting and PVP it seems. Because it only matters if someone has a bigger better ship if you go to unsecured zones looking for a fight/knowing the risk being attacked. This is not WT where ppl buy a premium vehicle which has a lower battle rating and gank others in low tier battles. This is not an exclusive PVP/Fight game...also tehre's no win because it's a sandbox..but this was said hundred times, but you can't seem to grasp it

For the nothing amazing and revolutionary...i guess you can list a few games which can give you the scale and fidelity of SC's planetary landings, and show the same tech where you can look out a stations window, see your ship, and other players flying around, go out there seamlessly, go to another station seamlessly, land, go in take elevators, walk to a windoww look out and see your ship parked outside and other players flying and landing, then get out again go to a planet land seamlessly into a city, take a train, walk around and agin look out and see others flying their ships.

Surely it has a lot of tech seen elsewhere, but no other game put all the elements together as SC did, topped by some things no game did before. So this statment of yours is truly foolish.

[Majestic12]

Well it's P2W in the narrow minded book like you who can't get over fighting and PVP it seems. Because it only matters if someone has a bigger better ship if you go to unsecured zones looking for a fight/knowing the risk being attacked. This is not WT where ppl buy a premium vehicle which has a lower battle rating and gank others in low tier battles. This is not an exclusive PVP/Fight game...also tehre's no win because it's a sandbox..but this was said hundred times, but you can't seem to grasp it

For the nothing amazing and revolutionary...i guess you can list a few games which can give you the scale and fidelity of SC's planetary landings, and show the same tech where you can look out a stations window, see your ship, and other players flying around, go out there seamlessly, go to another station seamlessly, land, go in take elevators, walk to a windoww look out and see your ship parked outside and other players flying and landing, then get out again go to a planet land seamlessly into a city, take a train, walk around and agin look out and see others flying their ships.

Surely it has a lot of tech seen elsewhere, but no other game put all the elements together as SC did, topped by some things no game did before. So this statment of yours is truly foolish.

I don't think it's narrowminded of him to assert that purchasing pure mechanical power is P2W.

I agree with you that Star Citizen is indeed much more than fighting. Let's take a few examples!

• Racing - You want a mechanical edge? Just open your wallet and buy the best racer.
• Exploring - Want to have a massive advantage in being the first to discover places? Just open your wallet and buy the best explorer.
• Mining - Want to start an immense mining corp and be very well off? Just open your wallet and buy the best mining ship.

How do you win at these things? Well, racing is obvious. As is exploring if you discover something first and possibly get to name them. Mining is the most vague one, but you are able to amass vast amounts of wealth fast. It's absurd to say that there is no winning in SC -- and I didn't even talk about dogfighting and looting peoples' components or cargo, as mentioned above there are various examples of winning in SC.

The truth is that SC does have P2W elements in it and it's part of the very funding model. I think anyone honest should simply accept that for what it is.
You are paying for ships you didn't earn or deserve through ingame accomplishments. And you're using these to have various mechanical advantages over others in, here it is, every aspect of the game.

People are also stocking up on credits for real life cash right now -- which enables them to go past any paywall of fueling/crewing their ships on day 1.

The reason you guys feel you have to repeat yourselves is because your counterarguments are flawed to begin with. There absolutely is winning in Star Citizen, and plenty of it.

P.s I saw you in the X4 steam discussion the other day. Glad you're trying that out. It needs fixes, but it does have potential.

[Onvious]

in reddit, some guy did the math regarding to ship owned by players. If i remember correctly only %10< backers have all ship. of course i have no idea how math works so i cant comment about it.

if we able to turn off pvp when game released ( poor man hope) i dont mind much about ships. i mean we will able grind ourselves to buy things.

[Malibutomi]

in reddit, some guy did the math regarding to ship owned by players. If i remember correctly only %10< backers have all ship. of course i have no idea how math works so i cant comment about it.

if we able to turn off pvp when game released ( poor man hope) i dont mind much about ships. i mean we will able grind ourselves to buy things.

I think you got it wrong.
It's not backers vs ships, but Accounts vs real backers, because there are pots of accounts created just for the free fly weekends, or muktiple accounts for one person etc.

Also it will be like EVE. The starter/larger systems will be safe and monitored by police/military, so you will only get killed by pvp if you go to shady areas of space

[RundinO]

As a backer of SC, I definitely agree that there is most certainly a P2W aspect to investing in the early development of the game. However, I also realize that without this, the game would have not been funded for nearly as much. We also have been warned (the backers) that the ships we are getting now will be not be the best that will be offered in game after it launches (unaware backers beware).

There are a few ships I think will be more than "middle-of-the-road", such as the Javelin. However, in this particular ship's case, it is one that must be permanently guarded/defended due it not despawning when the owner/pilot goes offline. Other larger ships, like the Idris, will pose a problem for newer players without more advanced ships if they don't address griefing properly (how they plan on controlling griefing is my only real concern at the moment).


For those criticizing the game making $200 million over the last 6 years and not having a finished product, it is because they have little to no clue about how game development or creating/growing a business works.

Bioware was founded in 1995 and it took them 6 years to develop Star Wars: The Old Republic, formally teasing it 3 years before its release and it cost roughly $200 million (in 2010 and with a team of nearly 800) to help develop by that point. And this was from a studio established a decade or more before it started developing the game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioWare
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/st.../1100-6348959/

Blizzard was founded in 1991 and it took them roughly 5 years to develop World of Warcraft, teasing in 2001 and releasing in 2004. This cost them $200 million in post-launch upkeep alone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_Entertainment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft

This shows a few developmental cost figures for quite a few games -
https://kotaku.com/how-much-does-it-...ame-1501413649
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mes_to_develop

Now take into account that Star Citizen's original Cloud Imperium team consisted of 2 or 3 people pitching an idea back and forth in 2012, with no office, no development team, no significant pre-funding, and no clear design goals. It was just 3 people spit-balling.

Now here Star Citizen is, 6 years later, with much clearer design goals (albeit, with added feature creep from crowdfunding goals that backers so desperately wanted), a team of over 475 (as of Feb. 2018). With what they started with in 2012, I initially expected them to be much further behind at this point.

[Gorsameth]

As a backer of SC, I definitely agree that there is most certainly a P2W aspect to investing in the early development of the game. However, I also realize that without this, the game would have not been funded for nearly as much. We also have been warned (the backers) that the ships we are getting now will be not be the best that will be offered in game after it launches (unaware backers beware).

There are a few ships I think will be more than "middle-of-the-road", such as the Javelin. However, in this particular ship's case, it is one that must be permanently guarded/defended due it not despawning when the owner/pilot goes offline. Other larger ships, like the Idris, will pose a problem for newer players without more advanced ships if they don't address griefing properly (how they plan on controlling griefing is my only real concern at the moment).


For those criticizing the game making $200 million over the last 6 years and not having a finished product, it is because they have little to no clue about how game development or creating/growing a business works.

Bioware was founded in 1995 and it took them 6 years to develop Star Wars: The Old Republic, formally teasing it 3 years before its release and it cost roughly $200 million (in 2010 and with a team of nearly 800) to help develop by that point. And this was from a studio established a decade or more before it started developing the game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioWare
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/st.../1100-6348959/

Blizzard was founded in 1991 and it took them roughly 5 years to develop World of Warcraft, teasing in 2001 and releasing in 2004. This cost them $200 million in post-launch upkeep alone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_Entertainment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft

This shows a few developmental cost figures for quite a few games -
https://kotaku.com/how-much-does-it-...ame-1501413649
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mes_to_develop

Now take into account that Star Citizen's original Cloud Imperium team consisted of 2 or 3 people pitching an idea back and forth in 2012, with no office, no development team, no significant pre-funding, and no clear design goals. It was just 3 people spit-balling.

Now here Star Citizen is, 6 years later, with much clearer design goals (albeit, with added feature creep from crowdfunding goals that backers so desperately wanted), a team of over 475 (as of Feb. 2018). With what they started with in 2012, I initially expected them to be much further behind at this point.

We just went over this.
Bioware released other games and didn't take people's money before having a product.
Blizzard released other games and didn't take people's money before having a product.

Neither company is run by a man notorious for failing to deliver games.

Your comparing apples to oranges.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

[MrAnderson]

We just went over this.
Bioware released other games and didn't take people's money before having a product.
Blizzard released other games and didn't take people's money before having a product.

Neither company is run by a man notorious for failing to deliver games.

Your comparing apples to oranges.

Sorry to break that hate bubble but both Bioware, Blizzard and any other major gaming company takes people's money before having a product.
It's called investors, and yes those companies develop a LOT of games that never come into fruition, cancelling a games mid development is a thing in this business.

So please grow up and get up to the basics of the industry before criticising the people who've been doing this for a living probably since before you were born.

[stellvia]

oh and FOIP is going to be something crazy once it's server side and has the software, accuracy, latency and de-sync issues sorted out it'll be amazing for general immersion and machinima.

Japan and their "V-tuber" scene is pushing this tech really well atm. Setup I've seen is a ~$150 tac-vest looking rig with gloves/belt/forehead kit (I think some of them use ankle sensors as well). Fully maps your motions onto the model in real-time and kinect or webcam or such looks for expressions and mouth movement.

[Odeezee]

Japan and their "V-tuber" scene is pushing this tech really well atm. Setup I've seen is a ~$150 tac-vest looking rig with gloves/belt/forehead kit (I think some of them use ankle sensors as well). Fully maps your motions onto the model in real-time and kinect or webcam or such looks for expressions and mouth movement.

mhmmm, i admit i am curious. do you have any good high fidelity examples you could link, i'd like to compare ti to the Faceware tech used in Star Citizen and those types of systems maybe what get gamers to lose weight if true, haha.