[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[lonely zergling]

My main question still remains: Who the fuck is the guy between Sam and Edmure?

My guess is Howland Reed. Who are the 3 other random noble guys? (next to gendry / yara / fatman royce)

[Dug]

During goodbye he already was without it.

Alright thanks. Poor Ghost

[KainneAbsolute]

They wanted the ending where the hero didn't get a happy ending, he lives in exile and suffering, but he's sacrifices will always been remembered... However they failed to lead up to it properly and in the end, it makes little to no sense why Jon is punished while everyone else is getting happy endings. Only thing that does make sense, is that Bran purposely did this to get the throne.

Jaime Lannister, THE KINGSLAYER, wasnt the heir of the Iron Throne and no one pardoned him WHY? he didnt need to ask for pardon because his side won the war. His duty was to protect Aerys but he killed him because he put the city in danger.

Jon is the TRUE HEIR. He did the same thing to Jaime and he went into exile? At least the Lannister know how to defend their family.

[Faldric]

Well that was a season, I would rather unsee. They should have waited to GRRM to finish the books. Another 10 years wait would be preferable to this.

[Sykol]

I've watched this show for damn near a decade, and at this point I'm just happy it's over. I only finished it because I was already so far in, but my god the last two seasons have been a gigantic abortion.

[Byuiso]

For what its worth. GRRM couldn't tell them who kills the NK because the NK as such doesn't exist in the books.

The Night King seems too important to not be in GRRM future plans. Maybe not the name but I think the role will exist.

[Koriani]

GRRM's approach to fantasy, in the end, reminds me of the previous (cancelled) HBO series Carnivale. In Carnivale, there's a whole mythology about how every generation has two Avatars, one a creature of light and the other a creature of darkness, and it's all about the creature of light understanding and developing his powers so that he can face and defeat the creature of darkness. The powers were hereditary. The show is set during the depression, and historical avatars include figures like Jesus and Caligula.

Series was ahead of its time and also just too weird for TV, so it was cancelled after two seasons, but the end of the series (revealed several years later) was supposed to be that the final creature of light and darkness have a child together, and they need to let the child be killed in a nuclear blast to end the line of Avatars, harking back to a line at the very beginning of the first season, when the opening monologue states, "There was magic then, nobility, and unimaginable cruelty. And so it was until the day that a false sun exploded over Trinity, and man forever traded away wonder for reason." The whole idea was that these mystical beings were holding everyone back and needed to go for the world to move on.

Game of Thrones had a similar thing, with amazing hereditary magical powers and exciting, complicated hero's journey for a reluctant hero, and in the end, the same idea that these magical powers are actually a terrible thing and need to go away so that men can rule for themselves.

Similarities don't end there... the final "good" avatar was male, and the final "bad" avatar was female. They have sex early on in their relationship as presumably they feel drawn to each other, and presumably also would have come into conflict later on. There's even a prominent dwarf working as a second in command/advisor! Lol...

Man! I miss Carnivale... thanks! *cries*

[eschatological]

My guess is Howland Reed. Who are the 3 other random noble guys? (next to gendry / yara / fatman royce)

They were all roughly organized geographically. I would have thought with Sam (representing the Reach) and Edmure (representing the Riverlands) maybe he'd be a minor Lannister? Or someone who now holds the Westerlands?

As for the people with the Dornish, who the fuck knows. The guy in yellow is obviously Dornish.

Edit: Do you mean the 3 to the right of the Dornish prince? Those are Sweet Robyn (the kid who sucked his mom's tit at the age of like 12) from the Vale, Yohn Royce whose been advising Sansa ever since the Vale came to help out in the Battle of the Bastards, and presumably some other Vale Lord.

[Nymfomania]

For what its worth. GRRM couldn't tell them who kills the NK because the NK as such doesn't exist in the books.

The Night King isnt in the books or he isn't called the night king? Ive not read any of the books (yet) but plan to. I have a copy on my kindle but other stuff keeps me busy.

[SethRoguen]

Jaime Lannister, THE KINGSLAYER, wasnt the heir of the Iron Throne and no one pardoned him WHY? he didnt need to ask for pardon because his side won the war. His duty was to protect Aerys but he killed him because he put the city in danger.

Jon is the TRUE HEIR. He did the same thing to Jaime and he went into exile? At least the Lannister know how to defend their family.

He was pardoned by Robert

[Thekri]

My guess is Howland Reed. Who are the 3 other random noble guys? (next to gendry / yara / fatman royce)

I want to know how the casting process for those random dudes were.

Casting- We are looking for someone to play one of the high lords of Westros who decides the ultimate fate of the setting in the Series Finale
Random Actor- Alright! Who am I playing!
Casting- Literally doesn't matter. Script needs a random lord. Make it up yourself.
Random Actor- So... what exactly do I need to do?
Casting- Say yes to the cripple kid. Most of the platform is made up of main characters anyway, nobody will care about you.
Random Actor- Fine, but I am bringing my water bottle. It is hot out here.

[Dug]

The Night King isnt in the books or he isn't called the night king? Ive not read any of the books (yet) but plan to. I have a copy on my kindle but other stuff keeps me busy.

Its more of a rumor. The dead and white walkers are certainly a thing but so far in the books there is no confirmation of there being a "night king" seen in the flesh IIRC.

[Nathreim]

I have doubts about this. D&D literally admitted after episode 3 that "Jon would have been the obvious one" to kill the NK, and they wanted to defy that, so they picked Arya. That doesn't sound, to me, like they're following the outline of GRRM.

I bet GRRM's outline was like 3 sentences:

1) Dany does all this crazy shit to get the throne, including heinous shit. She goes mad.
2) Jon is honorbound to kill her.
3) .............?


Like, the dude hasn't even started writing a Dream of Spring, which is the material episodes 4-6 covered. I'm not sure Bran will end up in the throne in KL, considering his story so far in the books.

Anyone saying this is how the books will end needs to learn how GRRM writes. He doesn't create plot points that have to happen. What he does is create characters and fleshes them out as real people then he lets their interactions with other characters write the story in a way that makes sense.

This is why he does tens of thousands of rewrites for every book and why he takes so damn long. For example he didn't plan the red wedding it kinda just happened and he debated over and over if it should make it to the final draft.


Given we are probably 10 years away from the end of the books (if we are lucky) a lot can change.

[eschatological]

The Night King isnt in the books or he isn't called the night king? Ive not read any of the books (yet) but plan to. I have a copy on my kindle but other stuff keeps me busy.

There's been no POV of the White Walkers in the books. No one knows if they have a leader or a king or even that there's one magical guy that created all of them that they can conveniently shank to kill all the others. The Night's King in the books is a legend about the Long Night, which took place thousands of years ago. GRRM suggests that that NK was human, not related to the White Walkers, and is most certainly dead by now.

[Koriani]

Worst finale ever to any show.

Actually I disagree.

With what they did with this final Season, anyway - honestly that ending was the best I expected, with what was left and how it /could/end. I wasn't expecting anything else and anything "better" was already determined to be out of D&D's writing-resolution ability (or they wouldn't have done Season 8 the way they did).

Worst ending ever?
That still goes to the series finale of QUANTUM LEAP. Even after GoT is over.

Not because it was written bad- but because they screwed over the main character with a horrible, never ending, "ending" to the show - for absolutely no reason what so ever. Nothing about QL would indicate it wasn't a feel good show - but the ending was anything but feel good.

- - - Updated - - -

Wrong.

LOL EXACTLY!!!

Exactly...

[Endus]

If it was all a ploy from Bran so he could be King then that just makes the Night King the hero of this story, who died trying to kill Bran.

Worse, Bran baited him into a trap and killed him. It's less "the Night King died trying to stop Bran" and more "Bran completely outmaneuvered the Night King and just sat there as he got killed.

I think the lesson of GoT is that many want to lead but not all are suited for it. Whether Sansa secretly lusted for the throne or not, she has done a pretty good job in the North.

Sansa never wanted the throne for her own personal power. She wanted the North to be free, and didn't see anyone else willing or able to get it there. There had to be a Monarch in the North for it to happen, which is why she originally backed Jon. Who fucked it all up, hence her rolling up her sleeves and doing it her own damn self.

She's her father's daughter, through and through. Duty before self.

Jaime Lannister, THE KINGSLAYER, wasnt the heir of the Iron Throne and no one pardoned him WHY? he didnt need to ask for pardon because his side won the war. His duty was to protect Aerys but he killed him because he put the city in danger.

Jon is the TRUE HEIR. He did the same thing to Jaime and he went into exile? At least the Lannister know how to defend their family.

Jon's only the heir of the Targaryen line, which doesn't have any claim to the throne any more to begin with, no lands to their name, no titles.

Also, he's one man, and sending him off settles a lot of conflict. There's no more Targaryens to worry about or for anyone to rally behind. The Unsullied will accept it, and while they had no chance of winning any actual fight, everyone's tired of fighting. It's a political decision, more than a stand for justice.

That said, Jon has basically no reason to stick with the "take no wife, have no children" part of the "sentence", and the North stands between the Six Kingdoms and the Wall, so there's no way anyone can really enforce it, even if he sticks to the Wall, which isn't what he did. Jon was happy, up there. He's never wanted power or responsibility, it's always been foisted upon him. Now he's among people he respects, and he owes no one anything. That is, frankly, a happy ending for Jon.

[KainneAbsolute]

He was pardoned by Robert

Ah yeah you are right. Then I guess Jon cannot pardon himself

[Gorsameth]

Worse, Bran baited him into a trap and killed him. It's less "the Night King died trying to stop Bran" and more "Bran completely outmaneuvered the Night King and just sat there as he got killed.



Sansa never wanted the throne for her own personal power. She wanted the North to be free, and didn't see anyone else willing or able to get it there. There had to be a Monarch in the North for it to happen, which is why she originally backed Jon. Who fucked it all up, hence her rolling up her sleeves and doing it her own damn self.

She's her father's daughter, through and through. Duty before self.



Jon's only the heir of the Targaryen line, which doesn't have any claim to the throne any more to begin with, no lands to their name, no titles.

Also, he's one man, and sending him off settles a lot of conflict. There's no more Targaryens to worry about or for anyone to rally behind. The Unsullied will accept it, and while they had no chance of winning any actual fight, everyone's tired of fighting. It's a political decision, more than a stand for justice.

That said, Jon has basically no reason to stick with the "take no wife, have no children" part of the "sentence", and the North stands between the Six Kingdoms and the Wall, so there's no way anyone can really enforce it, even if he sticks to the Wall, which isn't what he did. Jon was happy, up there. He's never wanted power or responsibility, it's always been foisted upon him. Now he's among people he respects, and he owes no one anything. That is, frankly, a happy ending for Jon.

My only real disappointment with Jon's end was that he was sentenced to the Night's Watch, rather then deciding for himself that he was going to go.
Other then that, yes his is more or less a happy ending (as happy as he can be considering he killed both the women he loved).

[Najnaj]

After an abysmal 8th season, the final episode was actually good. I was very happy to finally see a little story and not so much special effects.

[Ihavewaffles]

Aaaaahhhhh....

I got everything I could have hoped for from the finale. Even Grey Worm is confirmed to dying if he really sailed to Naath.

Nope, unsullied will protect the natives.

So the natives will make sure their protectors won't die.