[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Baconeggcheese]

Because 1-2-3 to me is not fun, I WANT 1-A2-A3-1-2-3, I WANT the 2 combos to be separate. I don't want that crappy WoW spec rotation garbage to come over here.

Its pretty funny that you don't understand that its a "crappy WoW spec rotation garbage" just spread out over more buttons for the sake of it but with even less decision making involved.

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@Aruhen I completely understand, did you read my last post directed at you?

[Onikaroshi]

Its pretty funny that you don't understand that its a "crappy WoW spec rotation garbage" just spread out over more buttons for the sake of it but with even less decision making involved.

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@Aruhen I completely understand, did you read my last post directed at you?

"Even less decision making involved" yea, ok, FF still has more decision making then wow, specially on a dot class, because FF still has snap shotting which WoW removed back in WoD.

[Baconeggcheese]

"Even less decision making involved" yea, ok, FF still has more decision making then wow, specially on a dot class, because FF still has snap shotting which WoW removed back in WoD.

I mean, that is objectively false by every metric, but you keep believing what you want to believe.

[Onikaroshi]

I mean, that is objectively false by every metric, but you keep believing what you want to believe.

It takes zero thought to play wow, I would have believed you more if you had said they were both brain dead. At least that's closer then saying wow takes more thought

Even if both games are simple like you claim, FF is still a shit ton more fun, and since it's a game that's what counts honestly. The jobs are more fun, the encounters are more fun, hell, crafting, housing, and glamour are all more fun

[Aruhen]

I did read it. I actually really like the way Guild Wars 2 does the combat system but that game also has a weapon swap system that makes it actually fun. I really wish GW2 had more interesting content otherwise I'd be playing it more.

I just get defensive whenever I see people proposing such changes because I love the gameplay in FFXIV as is. Like if you asked me for a logical reason I literally couldn't give you one outside of "I like how it feels". I will say though that if they did the changes that you and others suggest then I'd probably stop playing the game outside of just coming back once every few months to do the story.

"Even less decision making involved" yea, ok, FF still has more decision making then wow, specially on a dot class, because FF still has snap shotting which WoW removed back in WoD.

The snap shotting change is probably one of the biggest changes that made Warlocks so dull these days. Its insane how one little thing made the spec mesh so nicely. I'm so happy its still a thing in FFXIV.

[Onikaroshi]

I did read it. I actually really like the way Guild Wars 2 does the combat system but that game also has a weapon swap system that makes it actually fun. I really wish GW2 had more interesting content otherwise I'd be playing it more.

I just get defensive whenever I see people proposing such changes because I love the gameplay in FFXIV as is. Like if you asked me for a logical reason I literally couldn't give you one outside of "I like how it feels". I will say though that if they did the changes that you and others suggest then I'd probably stop playing the game outside of just coming back once every few months to do the story.



The snap shotting change is probably one of the biggest changes that made Warlocks so dull these days. Its insane how one little thing made the spec mesh so nicely. I'm so happy its still a thing in FFXIV.

I know, I got to have one last hurrah in seige the night before they killed it and it was sad. It honestly pushed me to shadow and I still play shadow mostly when I do play wow, only spec I really find fun and engaging, it's a rush to try to keep yourself in void form.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Aruhen You understand then that what I said in regards to combos doesn't change gameplay at all, it just removes bloat right? You literally have the same abilities being used in the exact same way with what's being described. So you're saying you'd quit because instead of pressing 3 separate buttons to do the exact same thing you're pressing 1 button 3 times to do the exact same thing.

The other thing that was discussed was positionals, which as was pointed out are almost entirely removed as well by virtue of having 30 seconds of true north via riddle of earth and then 2 charges true north totaling 50 seconds of removing positional requirements with riddle of earth having a 60 second CD and true north having a 45s recharge time. Meaning the majority of the time you don't actually have to worry about positionals at all and they're already practically removed from the game.

And then snap shotting is completely meaningless in this game because there are no large damage procs via items like there is in WoW which is the only reason snapshots* mattered.

I don't really understand your logic on these things. I do miss snapshots in WoW though, affliction is boring as hell without them. Aff was already boring before though... its just more boring now. I hate what they did with affliction in legion / BFA... I hate what they did with class design in general though.

[Onikaroshi]

@Aruhen You understand then that what I said in regards to combos doesn't change gameplay at all, it just removes bloat right? You literally have the same abilities being used in the exact same way with what's being described. So you're saying you'd quit because instead of pressing 3 separate buttons to do the exact same thing you're pressing 1 button 3 times to do the exact same thing.

The other thing that was discussed was positionals, which as was pointed out are almost entirely removed as well by virtue of having 30 seconds of true north via riddle of earth and then 2 charges true north totaling 50 seconds of removing positional requirements with riddle of earth having a 60 second CD and true north having a 45s recharge time. Meaning the majority of the time you don't actually have to worry about positionals at all and they're already practically removed from the game.

And then snap shotting is completely meaningless in this game because there are no large damage procs via items like there is in WoW which is the only reason procs mattered.

I don't really understand your logic on these things. I do miss snapshots in WoW though, affliction is boring as hell without them. I hate what they did with affliction in legion / BFA... I hate what they did with class design in general though.

I mean, all you need to really understand is, we like to hit more buttons then the same three over and over. It may not be super complex but it's fun.

Plus less buttons would me less amazing visuals. It still sucks that WAR lost the butcher's block visual.

[Baconeggcheese]

I mean, all you need to really understand is, we like to hit more buttons then the same three over and over. It may not be super complex but it's fun.

That's pretty funny though, you could have that experience any time you want. Just consolidate the 3 button combo into 1 rotating button like in GW2 and then put that 1 button on 3 different binds. Bam you literally have the exact same experience as you do right now and you can have your fun while everyone else doesn't have to deal with bloat for bloats sake. Win win.

[Aruhen]

I mean, all you need to really understand is, we like to hit more buttons then the same three over and over. It may not be super complex but it's fun.

Plus less buttons would me less amazing visuals. It still sucks that WAR lost the butcher's block visual.

This. I really don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Whatever though I'm done with this conversation. Nothing more can be said.

As for positionals I don't understand what you're (bacon) getting at since I already said I would love for them to remove it...

[Onikaroshi]

That's pretty funny though, you could have that experience any time you want. Just consolidate the 3 button combo into 1 rotating button like in GW2 and then put that 1 button on 3 different binds. Bam you literally have the exact same experience as you do right now and you can have your fun while everyone else doesn't have to deal with bloat for bloats sake. Win win.

Except it's not the same, you would lose out on all those visuals, maybe it's time to stop trying to bend games to your will and just find something within them that you like or idk... don't play at all?

Like honestly, I'm still sitting here on mch and it wouldn't be the same job without all it's buttons, and it only has ONE combo.

[Baconeggcheese]

As for positionals I don't understand what you're (bacon) getting at since I already said I would love for them to remove it...

You also said it would be a bad thing for monks to remove it... which is why I explained how its already almost entirely removed on monk as is.

Except it's not the same, you would lose out on all those visuals, maybe it's time to stop trying to bend games to your will and just find something within them that you like or idk... don't play at all?

Like honestly, I'm still sitting here on mch and it wouldn't be the same job without all it's buttons, and it only has ONE combo.

I mean, I'm having a discussion on a forum that has nothing to do with how the games designed. I'm not bending anything to my will, I'm just discussing pretty basic logic.

Also machinist would be literally the exact same job with its 3 button combo made into 1 button, you'd just have less binds. The game play would be identical, that's whats funny about this. And for you, the gameplay would be identical if you spread out that 1 bind across 3 buttons and you could even make macros to give them 3 different pictures.

There's no getting through to you though, I understand that.

[Onikaroshi]

Actually, I do have to kind of sit here and laugh because honestly... my monk bars are pretty barren.... like monk has so few abilities.

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You also said it would be a bad thing for monks to remove it... which is why I explained how its already almost entirely removed on monk as is.



I mean, I'm having a discussion on a forum that has nothing to do with how the games designed. I'm not bending anything to my will, I'm just discussing pretty basic logic.

Also machinist would be literally the exact same job with its 3 button combo made into 1 button, you'd just have less binds. The game play would be identical, that's whats funny about this. And for you, the gameplay would be identical if you spread out that 1 bind across 3 buttons and you could even make macros to give them 3 different pictures.

There's no getting through to you though, I understand that.

Literally no one wants that aside from you and maybe a few others, monks are pissed because SE took rotational abilities away and didn't give anything back, tanks are irked because they lost a combo, you're literally trying to fight against an entire playerbase.

People do bring up your suggestion from time to time and every. single. time. it's met with a resounding no.

Even if you took mchs 3 part combo and did that then the next thing you'd want is for them to cut out some of the other 16-17 odd buttons because you'd still be calling bloat.

[Baconeggcheese]

Lol dude the meat of machinists kit is like 10 buttons what are you talking about.

[Onikaroshi]

Hotshot/Air Anchor, Reassemble, Gauss Round, Spread shot, Hypercharge, heat blast, rook/queen, rook overdrive/pile bunker, wildfire/detonator, richochet, auto crossbow, barrel stabilizer, flamethrower, bioblaster, tactician

14 without tact or the combo, 15 with tact, 18 with all of it.

[Aruhen]

I never said they should keep them on Monk. All I said is I can see the thematic reasons for keeping them on Monk and that maybe some people enjoy that so they would be against such a change. I personally stopped playing MNK as my main because of positionals.

Honestly I'm just done with all these conversation. Its not going anywhere.

[Onikaroshi]

I never said they should keep them on Monk. All I said is I can see the thematic reasons for keeping them on Monk and that maybe some people enjoy that so they would be against such a change. I personally stopped playing MNK as my main because of positionals.

And honestly that's a better response then "REMOVE EM ALL!"

[Sharby]

I will only comment on DRG, since I know very little about BRD. None of these things qualify as deep, ESPECIALLY not "impactful" CDs.

• Battle Litany is a flat buff that alters gameplay in no way shape or form. It is always used in burst windows. Not interesting or impactful. It's binary.
• Life Surge is used at the same time, on the same ability, every single time. Not interesting or impactful. It's binary.
• Blood of the Dragon is fire and forget now.
• Dragon Sight is the only thing that genuinely offers a player any agency or semblance of depth, and even then it's flimsy at best, and clunky as fuck to use and requires third party addons to use optimally.

I love FF14 and I enjoy playing DRG, but animation locks, positionals, strict timers and boring one note oGCDs and cooldowns are not the highlight of the job.



They were and I agree that they were removed with good reason. However you're out of your mind if you think that FF14's positionals are well designed. They're by and far complained about across all forms of media for being clunky and annoying. I'd be ok with positionals if the netcode wasn't ass, but unfortunately it is.



More or less unique? Rampart and Sentinel are generally identical across tanks. Sure WAR's reflects damage, but it's negligible. The only difference is in their invulns (even though they're all used identically) and their on demand (Sheltron, TBN). Mind you that I actually think some homogenization is ok and even a good decision sometimes.

I won't comment on which design I think is better because I don't tank in WoW because Ret exists. FF14 tank design isn't bad, but I long every single tier for more to do and it just isn't there. I was hoping interrupts would actually matter and they don't. They're just more binary if/then's used once a fight if that at all. Tank swaps are generally binary and boring. Very rarely do you have to do a "fun" tank swap to handle a mechanic, it's just to not die from a auto due to a debuff.

PLD got a lot of fat cut which was desperately needed, but it still has some abilities that are nearly useless in addition to some of the most bland oGCDs in the game and a terribly boring cooldown.


.

Dunno feels like a lot of what you're saying is opinion based, I will concede on the depth aspect but I disagree with you saying things like Litany aren't interesting. I feel like you're only saying that about buffs because you disagree with them existing.


Things like Litany and Voice are interesting to me because they add weight to classes that normally are only judged by their dps like in WoW. Debating whether or not to bring an AST or a BRD to a fight not just because of 'do they have the best numbers' but instead having to look at them holistically is interesting to me.

I think its very refreshing to have actual impactful utility because it gives more avenues of value to the game instead of just how fast your class kills the boss which is something WoW is seriously failing at.

And honestly? Yes I agree that pure DPS classes should probably be in the top end of the DPS always but as it stands unless you're going for world first kills it's largely irrelevant. You're not going to get stuck in savage because you brought a Samurai over a Black Mage. I'd say every single job is savage-viable even if some don't feel good to play. I've yet to ever encounter a job that was straight up unviable.

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Dunno what you mean by Dragon Sight being clunky and requiring addons to use, nothing more to say besides I disagree with that.

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As for what is and isn't the highlight of the job I'm going to have to disagree again, I think that having animation locks is very unique to the job because it means you have to pay attention to mechanics and boss timers more than other jobs have to. It can be argued that its clunky but so far I think its cool to have flashy animations and I can't say it has impeded my performance more than my own user error.


Considering positionals going to have to also disagree there, I'm not sure where you are getting that they're rage-inducing to use. They gave us two charges of TN and I haven't had any issues with them either aside from again, user error. I think they are well designed insofar as that the game is designed around them, bosses don't have shit like being needed to tank with their backs or sides against the walls at all times. In the vast majority of content you can reliably and consistently land them.

I am in favor of the current state of tank ability numbers because even though they're similar the fact that you have them opens up numerous possible strats. On my DRK I had a lot of fun finding all the different ways I could solo soak tethers on Titania EX until I found out that with some coordination from the healers I could solo soak all 6 because of all the tools I had at my disposal. That is cool to me, that is rewarding to me, that is interesting to me and I've saved numerous groups from wiping because I had that knowledge, I could never do something like that in WoW because the most optimal strat is always clearcut and found within moments. I personally feel like FF14 has a lot more room for discovering shit because you have so many different ways to use all the tools you have. WoW has too few abilities at the moment.

And for the record tanking isn't supposed to be difficult or mechanic intensive, the complexity has always been fight knowledge and CD usage. So as far as I'm concerned as long as I'm being pressured to use my CD's right I'd say its well designed.

I'm not gonna tell you you are right or wrong for thinking its uninteresting, but that's how I feel about the subject myself.

[leviathonlx]

As someone that just plays both WoW and FF14 (and see flaws in both) I always find the silly little fights both communities have since apparently you're only allowed to play one game or something even if half the complaints about 1 game can apply to the other just as much.

[Granyala]

They do what now? I haven't used the official forums because those tend to be awful but that's pretty funny.

Well apparently saying to a player that claimed: "I'm better than 99% of the PC players I encounter!", that a 53% activity in an Ex Primal fight is below average and telling him it is not good play to stand there half the fight doing nothing (he basically admitted to not casting while handling any sort of mechanics and proclaimed that his "mechanical prowess" is awesome) is considered "discrimination against a portion of the playerbase".

Honestly, the false, sickly sweet stench of acceptance of bad play coupled with "you mustn't criticize anyone because that would cause bad feels and is so toxic!11" has been my #1 pet peeve with this games community both ingame and in the forums since day 1.

You know WoWs dudes may go over board now and then but at least they are honest and say it to your face if you're doing sth wrong.

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As someone that just plays both WoW and FF14 (and see flaws in both) I always find the silly little fights both communities have since apparently you're only allowed to play one game or something even if half the complaints about 1 game can apply to the other just as much.

Yeah, fanboys tend to be overzealous.
Thou shan't have any other MMO next to me! .... said no MMO ever.