Why are so many Alliance factions open to the Horde?

[Specialka]

Very much disagree.

There are no "lol its just a prank bro" excuses after commiting genocide and similar acts.
Horde gets such unrealistic treatment on a constant basis - and then goes around touting about "muh honor" xD

Imagine what would happen to king Varian Wrynn if he told his troops and people that, after all the misery and death and sacrifice to defeat garrosh, he has decided to "LOL FORGIVE BFF" the horde just cause his son anduin has a desire for some bain ****?
Both varian and anduin would be executed on the spot for treason by his own generals and commanders - not to mention torn apart by his own people if he would even live long enough to reach stormwind.

Alliance has some extremely irritating NPCs (anduin, genn, malf, tyrande... pretty much all the leaders) but its regular NPCs (quest givers etc) tend to be a lot more bearable and believable.
Most horde NPCs that are not the peaceful tauren tend to be so unbearably childish and delusional and detached from WoW's reality its just immersion breaking and leaves a rrrreally foul taste.

How dare you use logic on this forum?

[Syegfryed]

Trolls wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the Titans and the Titanforged army(of which Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes are direct desendents of) defeating the Black Empire.

thats nonsense, they would still be there, corrupted or not by the old gods, but still alive

humans spread like cancer and keep stealing other races lands, again, they have no shit to say

The Titanforged army were literally made out of Azeroth's earth. They basically acted as antibodies.

so, is ok if the not natives help save the world? then its ok to keep orcs around

Why the fuck should Azeroth belong to the trolls when it was the Human, Dwarves, and Gnomes direct ancestors who were responsible for making Azeroth safe and inhabitable in the first place?? All land is Titanforged land.

safe and inhabitable in your own view, it would be safe and inhabitable by other standards, they are outsiders just like orcs and others, mind you, orcs are also directly descendants from titan constructs as well, then technically this also their land?

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Garrosh attacked varian not really up for debate if you watch the ulduar trailer.

i never put who attacked first in debate i said Varian was also ready to attack him

Also where was it ever started that varian wanted to wipe out all orcs? I’ve seen it said a few times but I remember he wanting to restart the war because of the things the undead were doing in undercity but I could have forgotten or missed something.

it was not because the things undead were doing, in undercity Varian pretty much target thrall and his race, he even launch attacks on durotan and none against sylvanas and the forsaken despite her advance in cataclysm

[Lorgar Aurelian]

it was not because the things undead were doing, in undercity Varian pretty much target thrall and his race, he even launch attacks on durotan and none against sylvanas and the forsaken despite her advance in cataclysm

So is there any where that actually says he wants to wipe out all the orcs or are you just going off of them targeting the seat of power of the horde?

[Syegfryed]

So is there any where that actually says he wants to wipe out all the orcs or are you just going off of them targeting the seat of power of the horde?

King Varian Wrynn says: I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing.
King Varian Wrynn says: What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde... It ends now, Warchief.

you can try to argue he was talking about the whole horde but no, in the instance what he most do is attack orcs, his lines are also to the green-skinned aberrations and thrall himself;

thats why he focus entirely on the orcs later on.

[Combatbutler]

Very much disagree.

There are no "lol its just a prank bro" excuses after commiting genocide and similar acts.
Horde gets such unrealistic treatment on a constant basis - and then goes around touting about "muh honor" xD

Imagine what would happen to king Varian Wrynn if he told his troops and people that, after all the misery and death and sacrifice to defeat garrosh, he has decided to "LOL FORGIVE BFF" the horde just cause his son anduin has a desire for some bain ****?
Both varian and anduin would be executed on the spot for treason by his own generals and commanders - not to mention torn apart by his own people if he would even live long enough to reach stormwind.

Alliance has some extremely irritating NPCs (anduin, genn, malf, tyrande... pretty much all the leaders) but its regular NPCs (quest givers etc) tend to be a lot more bearable and believable.
Most horde NPCs that are not the peaceful tauren tend to be so unbearably childish and delusional and detached from WoW's reality its just immersion breaking and leaves a rrrreally foul taste.

How dare you use logic on this forum?

The Horde and Alliance are both braindead factions, as per the narrative and no most npcs aren't much better, since almost all of them have the personality of a cardboard box and both factions commit genocide all the time, you go out and fire bomb cities, kill unborn, poison food or straight up blow up settlements etc.

I am always amused by people trying to claim any sort of moral highground, considering the player is one of the worst monsters roaming the planet.

[Specialka]

you can try to argue he was talking about the whole horde but no, in the instance what he most do is attack orcs, his lines are also to the green-skinned aberrations and thrall himself;

thats why he focus entirely on the orcs later on.

And unfortunately the Horde proved him right each time

[Lorgar Aurelian]

you can try to argue he was talking about the whole horde but no, in the instance what he most do is attack orcs, his lines are also to the green-skinned aberrations and thrall himself;

thats why he focus entirely on the orcs later on.

Ah I see it now after looking at the battle for undercity dialogue. I had remembered him being upset About the forsaken but not that he blamed the orcs.

They really should have left that quest in.

[Syegfryed]

And unfortunately the Horde proved him right each time

all cata and mop war and the effects later were caused by him and the alliance

[Aleksej89]

The Horde and Alliance are both braindead factions, as per the narrative and no most npcs aren't much better, since almost all of them have the personality of a cardboard box and both factions commit genocide all the time, you go out and fire bomb cities, kill unborn, poison food or straight up blow up settlements etc.

I am always amused by people trying to claim any sort of moral highground, considering the player is one of the worst monsters roaming the planet.

In game most enemies are treated as either evil or sub sentient (lesser beings like quilboar).
So the game never treats them like innocent or civilians - they are just murder targets.

Only for horde and alliance did blizz ever bother to portay such concepts.

[Specialka]

all cata and mop war and the effects later were caused by him and the alliance

And the Horde was obv not lead by a warmonger?

[Combatbutler]

In game most enemies are treated as either evil or sub sentient (lesser beings like quilboar).
So the game never treats them like innocent or civilians - they are just murder targets.

Only for horde and alliance did blizz ever bother to portay such concepts.

Whether the game treats them as such isn't really the point, we know it is genocide and both factions commit it regularly.

You kill troll children/teens in the dwarven starting area for example and it is treated like it is tuesday and it is fine, what is annoying is the constant bickering about a moral compass this game simply doesn't have.

[Phurox]

So what's the deal with making factions that were originally Alliance affiliated neutral? It's honestly insulting to Alliance players that iconic alliance factions are now open to the Horde. Examples of these factions include:

- The Kirin Tor. I know that they've always had strong ties with Silvermoon but it was originally a human kingdom. And we all know how the Horde betrayed them back in MoP.

- Argent Dawn (now Argent Crusade).

- Knights of the Silver Hand. Originally a human organisation of Paladins, now Paladins of every race are allowed in (including Blood Elves and Tauren).

- Cenarion Circle and Cenarion Expedition. I know this is technically a Night Elf organisation, but anyway. This one makes the least sense of them all. Not even Night Elf women were allowed in when it was first founded. Now every idiot that can grow a pumpkin gets a membership. It makes even less sense after the War of Thorns. Malfurion is the leader of the CC, why hasn't he kicked out all the Tauren and Trolls yet?

- The Wardens. Led by quite possible the most xenophobic Night Elf out there, yet they have no trouble working together with the Horde. Eventually bites them in the ass when Nathanos kills Sira and raises her as a forsaken.

Actually. The lore is like this.

(some race) "hey alliance what's going on?"
(alliance) "you are not a human therefore you must die"
*alliance doing slaughter*
After some time
(alliance) "yo wanna join our cause? "

The humans treated the blood elves and the dark iron dwarves like shit.

[Syegfryed]

And the Horde was obv not lead by a warmonger?

the warmonger to face the other warmonger, the one who openly declared war and start attacking first

[Aleksej89]

Whether the game treats them as such isn't really the point, we know it is genocide and both factions commit it regularly.

You kill troll children/teens in the dwarven starting area for example and it is treated like it is tuesday and it is fine, what is annoying is the constant bickering about a moral compass this game simply doesn't have.

But those are blue trolls.
We all know blue trolls dont have souls

[Firefall]

None of them are open to the horde, they are open to specific races that are in the Horde. No one likes or trusts Goblins or Forsaken. Most do not trust orcs. It's basically just Tauren and sometimes trolls.

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Actually. The lore is like this.

(some race) "hey alliance what's going on?"
(alliance) "you are not a human therefore you must die"
*alliance doing slaughter*
After some time
(alliance) "yo wanna join our cause? "

The humans treated the blood elves and the dark iron dwarves like shit.

This. Exactly this.

[Ardenaso]

Wardens should have stayed neutral.

Ik they are under Tyrande but still...

same goes for Demon Hunters.

not a good idea to be neutral when your literal people and relatives are being butchered left and right and your land and denizens are being defiled

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Alliance doesn't have players trying to justify genocide, mass murder of civilians, and gleefully following omnicidal maniacs, but yeah, "equally". Sure.

to be fair I always see at least one person say "dead should stay dead" everyday

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Actually. The lore is like this.

(some race) "hey alliance what's going on?"
(alliance) "you are not a human therefore you must die"
*alliance doing slaughter*
After some time
(alliance) "yo wanna join our cause? "

The humans treated the blood elves and the dark iron dwarves like shit.

if we're going to judge the whole Alliance because of a splinter group of the remnants of the Alliance of Lordaeron, we might as well judge the whole Horde because of the Dark Horde's actions

[Varodoc]

not a good idea to be neutral when your literal people and relatives are being butchered left and right and your land and denizens are being defiled

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to be fair I always see at least one person say "dead should stay dead" everyday

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if we're going to judge the whole Alliance because of a splinter group of the remnants of the Alliance of Lordaeron, we might as well judge the whole Horde because of the Dark Horde's actions

What's the problem with "dead should stay dead" mentality? I mean.... it's pretty logical.... the dead belong in the Shadowlands, not in the world of the living.

I mean, that's literally what Sylvanas believed. She acknowledged that she had no place in the world of the living, and didn't kys sooner because she wanted revenge on Arthas. It's almost like undead are inherently flawed and cursed people who have no place anywhere beyond the Shadowlands.

So when even an undead believes in that mentality, perhaps it's not so wrong after all. If anything, it's surprising that some people defend the idea that zombies should live with living people.

[Mardux]

not a good idea to be neutral when your literal people and relatives are being butchered left and right and your land and denizens are being defiled

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to be fair I always see at least one person say "dead should stay dead" everyday

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if we're going to judge the whole Alliance because of a splinter group of the remnants of the Alliance of Lordaeron, we might as well judge the whole Horde because of the Dark Horde's actions

Which is exactly what's been done since the legion tricked horde into becoming slaves, then horde became actual slaves to alliance. So yeah.

[Tripzzz]

thats nonsense, they would still be there, corrupted or not by the old gods, but still alive

humans spread like cancer and keep stealing other races lands, again, they have no shit to say



so, is ok if the not natives help save the world? then its ok to keep orcs around



safe and inhabitable in your own view, it would be safe and inhabitable by other standards, they are outsiders just like orcs and others, mind you, orcs are also directly descendants from titan constructs as well, then technically this also their land?

Then they wouldn't be the same trolls, they would just be old god minions like the K'thir.

Humans might spread like cancer but the fact remains their Titanforged ancestors defeated the Black Empire and made Azeroth safe and inhabitable for all subsequent races. Trolls as they are today would not exist without the Titanforged clearing out the Black Empire.

The Titanforged were made from Azeroth's own crust. They are native to Azeroth. They were born on Azeroth. Don't give me that Titans are "aliens" bullshit, Azeroth itself is a Titan. Orcs belong on Draenor where they were created. Too bad the Orcs are dumbasses and just had to destroy their homeworld.

How exactly would the Orcs or Trolls find a planet ruled by the Black Empire as "safe and inhabitable" when the Orcs fucking cry like bitches over Durotar's harsh desert environment?

[Feanoro]

Are you sure?

Honestly both player-bases are pretty much the same.

Nice apples and oranges you got there.

My statement is about Horde players justifying Horde actions, as in things that have actually been done by the Horde. You know, like all the posts telling us that impaling farmers in front of their crying children was fine because it cut into the enemy food supply?

The other quote you put up is about how a realistic in game response to the Horde threat would be to wipe them out, which specifically points out that it's hypothetical.

Please tell me you see the difference.

to be fair I always see at least one person say "dead should stay dead" everyday

In reference to the undead? The original lore, flushed by Danuser, was that undeath was a curse and each undead was endlessly suffering. In that version, killing an undead was releasing them from his torment.

Damn sight more compelling than "undead are sad people with a medical condition".