Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Omega10]

I don't know how you can say that really, not about what Pelosi did but rather how Trump somehow is on a "roll". They did some things early on that managed to buy them time during February but then they completely squandered that time to buy into some fiction that the virus was no big deal.

Clearly it was a fairly big deal, and while sure Americans might be supportive of what Trump is doing right now once the bodies start pilling up I think things will change quite rapidly. If Trump has his way the lockdown would be lifted, but if you do that you're looking at millions of people dead, the entire healthcare system pulverized and the economy, for which the orange imbecile is willing to sacrifice so many lives for, absolutely demolished.

Can it get into people's thick heads that TRYING TO SAVE THE ECONOMY BY LIFTING THE LOCKDOWN WILL NOT WORK?!

I'm yelling that because it's pure rank madness to try what Trump is saying as the business sector and right wingers are telling him.

I agree with your yelling. But politicially, right now, Trump is definitely CURRENTLY on a roll and he is winning. And it is not clear at this point that millions of people dead, the entire healthcare system pulverized and the economy, for which the orange imbecile is willing to sacrifice so many lives for, absolutely demolished would diminish his support.

[akris15]

I agree with your yelling. But politicially, right now, Trump is definitely CURRENTLY on a roll and he is winning. And it is not clear at this point that millions of people dead, the entire healthcare system pulverized and the economy, for which the orange imbecile is willing to sacrifice so many lives for, absolutely demolished would diminish his support.

At best there is a slightly over 50/50 which is odd considering in times in crisis people tend to gather around and be supportive of leadership. Honestly I just say Trump is keeping his head above water but as US citizens we still haven't seen the peak of this so its really hard to call this as Trump is on a roll. If I re-call correctly Bush even had a nice bump in the polls until people realized how badly he messed up, especially with that fly over moment. I still say, especially if this 15 day plan goes into action its gonna fall quickly.

[Omega10]

At best there is a slightly over 50/50 which is odd considering in times in crisis people tend to gather around and be supportive of leadership. Honestly I just say Trump is keeping his head above water but as US citizens we still haven't seen the peak of this so its really hard to call this as Trump is on a roll. If I re-call correctly Bush even had a nice bump in the polls until people realized how badly he messed up, especially with that fly over moment. I still say, especially if this 15 day plan goes into action its gonna fall quickly.

And, politically: he won the 2004 election against Kerry.

And, economically: well the mancession of 2006-2008 happened, which focused its pain on white males, many of which were Bush supporters.

This is not a very reassuring analogy.

[alexw]

I agree with your yelling. But politicially, right now, Trump is definitely CURRENTLY on a roll and he is winning. And it is not clear at this point that millions of people dead, the entire healthcare system pulverized and the economy, for which the orange imbecile is willing to sacrifice so many lives for, absolutely demolished would diminish his support.

Its exceedingly clear it will diminish his support. As that infamous Trump voter quote puts it "He's not hurting the right people".

Trump supporters are very happy that the virus is impacting people in the big cities on the liberal coasts.

But watch what happens when it spreads out of those places and we start getting lots of casualties in their redder than red small towns and rural counties.

At that point he'll definitely DEFINITELY be hurting the wrong people. I.e them.

And given the demographics of Trump supporters its going to be hurting them a hell of a lot.

[akris15]

And, politically: he won the 2004 election against Kerry.

And, economically: well the mancession of 2006-2008 happened, which focused its pain on white males, many of which were Bush supporters.

This is not a very reassuring analogy.

But...Katrina happened in September of 2005...I don't know what brought in the fact of Kerry getting defeated by Bush under a "we don't change president's mid-war" attitude at the time...

[Omega10]

But...Katrina happened in September of 2005...I don't know what brought in the fact of Kerry getting defeated by Bush under a "we don't change president's mid-war" attitude at the time...

oops my bad. I got my timeline messed up.

Anyways, we'll see how it pans out.

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Its exceedingly clear it will diminish his support. As that infamous Trump voter quote puts it "He's not hurting the right people".

Trump supporters are very happy that the virus is impacting people in the big cities on the liberal coasts.

But watch what happens when it spreads out of those places and we start getting lots of casualties in their redder than red small towns and rural counties.

At that point he'll definitely DEFINITELY be hurting the wrong people. I.e them.

And given the demographics of Trump supporters its going to be hurting them a hell of a lot.

This is very true. And the virus really is starting to pick up steam in red states.

[Zaydin]

Welp, Trump finally did it: His misinformation got someone killed.

Specifically, a husband and wife in Arizona, both in their 60s, took chloroquine phosphate to protect themselves from COVID-19, and the husband died from poisoning while his wife was in intensive care but expected to survive. Adding to the shit show is that what they took is not the anti-malarial Trump has been lying about; what they took is an additive for aquariums to treat fish for parasites. The name was close enough that they thought it was what Trump was lying about.

[eschatological]

.... how much veracity does this article have?

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...production-act

Probably fairly accurate.

Elon Musk has notoriously "promised" to make and send masks to help the pandemic. Someone asked him on Twitter when they were arriving, he lazily said, "Oh, they're held up at LAX, but they're in transit!"

LAX responded, "Hey.......that's not true. They're not here."

Companies are largely coming out and saaaaaying they'll do something....not many actually are. I believe GM said they'd start making ventilators.....haven't heard a peep from them since then about whether they're actually doing that.

Also, the updated "response" from the Administration is nonsense. The DPA can set prices and make sure these companies don't gouge the government in its hour of need, among other things.

Here's the LAX tweet:

https://twitter.com/flyLAXairport/st...26354633519106

I know Musk is hugely under fire in my community for building a factory here that is supposed to produce Teslas and provide jobs, but hasn't done jack shit and is just serving as a tax break for Musk.

[Twdft]

fairly clear at this point that senate republicans don't give a shit about regular people

even with the impending deaths of thousands of citizens along with the wrecking of the economy, they still remain beholden to wealthy donors and their own selfishness

fucking amazing

I don't think they even know what it means to live paycheck to paycheck. I don't think people like Moscow Mitch have any idea what it actually means to have no savings at all.

Here's the LAX tweet:

https://twitter.com/flyLAXairport/st...26354633519106

I know Musk is hugely under fire in my community for building a factory here that is supposed to produce Teslas and provide jobs, but hasn't done jack shit and is just serving as a tax break for Musk.

update on that

[TexasRules]

There are no "good solutions" for Pelosi. This accomplished a few things though.

It gave democrats something to vote FOR as opposed to just being against the republican bill. It reminds Americans of all the things that are not being done, much of which really needs to be done. It has substance, so it is something that will generate interest and get people to notice, at least a little.

The democrats just had an impeachment that turned into a huge success for Trump, and a democratic primary that also ended up being a huge success for Trump. So far, Trump's handling of the coronavirus has improved his approval rating by a couple of points. His supporters are more committed to him than ever before.

Just being against a $500 billion dollar slush fund that Trump can use as he desires is not an effective governing strategy. The democrats would cement their reputation as the "against everything but for nothing" party. Trump would get his slush fund, and effectively use it to finance a republican electoral landslide in November. The cost of this for the US is that the economy would deteriorate and the virus in the US would successfully multiply and prosper.

Regardless of the comments on MMOC, right now Trump is on a roll. He is more popular than ever before, and the democrats have been severely weakened. Pelosi took this opportunity to state what democrats are for. Either that or McDonnell becomes the Tower of Power that heroically thwarted the democratic attempts to be the against everything but for nothing party.

The bad part for Pelosi is that she stated what democrats are for. This is great, for their base...who was already voting for them. Independents are going to wonder why all this stuff needs to be done now in a time of crisis. I know they aren't trying to win Trump supporters over, but you could try for independents...right?

I was remembering a month ago when the msm said this would hurt Trump because he would no longer be able to have events and fundraisers. They said it would really hurt him and ignored what it would do for democratic candidates. Now the people here, on this very heavily biased board will tell you Trump makes a fool of himself every day he is out there. Every day. Every day he is out there....while Joe Biden tries to figure out how to reach supporters in his batcave. But hey, Bernie is out there too......

[Orbitus]

The bad part for Pelosi is that she stated what democrats are for. This is great, for their base...who was already voting for them. Independents are going to wonder why all this stuff needs to be done now in a time of crisis. I know they aren't trying to win Trump supporters over, but you could try for independents...right?

I was remembering a month ago when the msm said this would hurt Trump because he would no longer be able to have events and fundraisers. They said it would really hurt him and ignored what it would do for democratic candidates. Now the people here, on this very heavily biased board will tell you Trump makes a fool of himself every day he is out there. Every day. Every day he is out there....while Joe Biden tries to figure out how to reach supporters in his batcave. But hey, Bernie is out there too......

I don't know what you have been watching or reading, but he is FAILING, BADLY. Every time that fat orange fuck opens his mouth, the stock market drops.

[Crispin]

The bad part for Pelosi is that she stated what democrats are for. This is great, for their base...who was already voting for them. Independents are going to wonder why all this stuff needs to be done now in a time of crisis. I know they aren't trying to win Trump supporters over, but you could try for independents...right?

I was remembering a month ago when the msm said this would hurt Trump because he would no longer be able to have events and fundraisers. They said it would really hurt him and ignored what it would do for democratic candidates. Now the people here, on this very heavily biased board will tell you Trump makes a fool of himself every day he is out there. Every day. Every day he is out there....while Joe Biden tries to figure out how to reach supporters in his batcave. But hey, Bernie is out there too......

One could argue, that now is not the time to score cheap political points. At least thats the standpoint our opposition is taking.

That said, I honestly wish that western countries would be able to adopt the SK strategy for handling this.

[Poopymonster]

Welp, Trump finally did it: His misinformation got someone killed.

Specifically, a husband and wife in Arizona, both in their 60s, took chloroquine phosphate to protect themselves from COVID-19, and the husband died from poisoning while his wife was in intensive care but expected to survive. Adding to the shit show is that what they took is not the anti-malarial Trump has been lying about; what they took is an additive for aquariums to treat fish for parasites. The name was close enough that they thought it was what Trump was lying about.

That's one way to reduce the 30% hardcore nutter base. Let them do it themselves?

[Trunksee]

I would like to try to get a point across to a lot of you not in the infrastructure industry. My company just cut our pay company wide 10% to keep everyone working since in Massachusetts construction is considered essential. This isn't going to be a simple recession from this. Due to congress not passing this bill with protections and money for big business investors are now pulling contracts on upcoming jobs. Without support to big business a lot of people who want money for the worker are simply stated are going to be out of work. People praising the democrats are short sighted. Businesses are already scaling back spending and investments to keep profit margins in the black. If big business doesn't get this they are going to put way more people out of work for a short term gain for votes. When the rich start cutting jobs even if the democrats get us say $10000 for each person, only the people not working benefit. We are headed for a depression not a recession all for votes of the working class this year. Investors who run this country are already pulling funding to new projects. I don't get how this can get political over a few thousand dollars when it could cost people their living.

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That's one way to reduce the 30% hardcore nutter base. Let them do it themselves?

Cant blame the president for peoples own stupidity. I mean this is Darwinism at its finest.

[bladeXcrasher]

I would like to try to get a point across to a lot of you not in the infrastructure industry. My company just cut our pay company wide 10% to keep everyone working since in Massachusetts construction is considered essential. This isn't going to be a simple recession from this. Due to congress not passing this bill with protections and money for big business investors are now pulling contracts on upcoming jobs. Without support to big business a lot of people who want money for the worker are simply stated are going to be out of work. People praising the democrats are short sighted. Businesses are already scaling back spending and investments to keep profit margins in the black. If big business doesn't get this they are going to put way more people out of work for a short term gain for votes. When the rich start cutting jobs even if the democrats get us say $10000 for each person, only the people not working benefit. We are headed for a depression not a recession all for votes of the working class this year. Investors who run this country are already pulling funding to new projects. I don't get how this can get political over a few thousand dollars when it could cost people their living.

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Cant blame the president for peoples own stupidity. I mean this is Darwinism at its finest.

What are you talking about? Are you even following the issue, because you ranting about this being about checks to everyday people makes me think you don't at all. The Democrats aren't taking issue with that, it's the large business portion, it's the specific airline bailout. Try to keep up, because there is nothing that protects workers in those industries, nothing to prevent the repeat of the trump tax cut buybacks. That's the Democrats issues with the Republican bill.

[Machismo]

I would like to try to get a point across to a lot of you not in the infrastructure industry. My company just cut our pay company wide 10% to keep everyone working since in Massachusetts construction is considered essential. This isn't going to be a simple recession from this. Due to congress not passing this bill with protections and money for big business investors are now pulling contracts on upcoming jobs. Without support to big business a lot of people who want money for the worker are simply stated are going to be out of work. People praising the democrats are short sighted. Businesses are already scaling back spending and investments to keep profit margins in the black. If big business doesn't get this they are going to put way more people out of work for a short term gain for votes. When the rich start cutting jobs even if the democrats get us say $10000 for each person, only the people not working benefit. We are headed for a depression not a recession all for votes of the working class this year. Investors who run this country are already pulling funding to new projects. I don't get how this can get political over a few thousand dollars when it could cost people their living.

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Cant blame the president for peoples own stupidity. I mean this is Darwinism at its finest.

For the record, you are basically saying that Trumpsters are ignorant cultists... I agree.

Well, that's what capitalism is all about, deal with it. We already saw what happened the last time big corporations were bailed out, they simply padded their own pockets, and employees were left almost unchanged. But hey, at least future generations were actually the ones who were forced to pay for it.

Businesses should be scaling back spending and investments, because they are losing revenue. They should have prepared for this day, instead of pushing stock buybacks.

What. Will. Stop. Large. Corporations. From. Doing. It. Again...

[Thekri]

Cant blame the president for peoples own stupidity. I mean this is Darwinism at its finest.

Well you kind of can. Trump did say that particular drug will stop Coronavirus, and he has repeatedly attacked the credibility of doctors, scientists, and every reasonable voice that you would normally expect to discourage people from taking such drugs. So since America has a significant population of elderly people that no longer trust anyone but Trump, it isn't unexpected that when he says something is a miracle drug, some of them will take it and die.

It is pretty much the Jim Jones phase of the cult, where he tells his followers to take poison.

So it depends on if you want to blame the victim for being gullible or the scammer for preying on vulnerable people. Both have too be true for something like this to happen.

[Mayhem]

Well you kind of can. Trump did say that particular drug will stop Coronavirus, and he has repeatedly attacked the credibility of doctors, scientists, and every reasonable voice that you would normally expect to discourage people from taking such drugs. So since America has a significant population of elderly people that no longer trust anyone but Trump, it isn't unexpected that when he says something is a miracle drug, some of them will take it and die.

It is pretty much the Jim Jones phase of the cult, where he tells his followers to take poison.

So it depends on if you want to blame the victim for being gullible or the scammer for preying on vulnerable people. Both have too be true for something like this to happen.

I don't understand how his talking is not considered endangering society.

[Thekri]

What. Will. Stop. Large. Corporations. From. Doing. It. Again...

Nothing will stop it, because that is baked into the fundamental nature of how corporations work. If you buy stock in a company, you want to see returns from the company, either in the form of stock value gains, or dividends. The largest shareholders determine who sits on the board of that company, and that board hires Officers that will promote shareholder value.

If a CEO prioritizes something else over shareholder value, he or she will get removed, because the hedge funds and investment companies aren't getting the return on their stocks that they want.

Breaking up the profits over tens of thousands of different people means any moral considerations are diluted, because all of those tens of thousands can't agree on any moral factor. The only thing they can all agree on is that the company should give them more money. Let's say you, as a small value investor, bought stock in Boeing in 2014. You paid around $120 a share for that stock, for which you presumably expected to make money somehow. You own like 1 billionth of Boeing at that point, so it isn't like you really benefit from them using their cash for a a rainy day fund. But you do benefit from them pouring cash into dividends (Which you get) and stock buybacks, which increase your share value. So from 2014 to 2019, you are very happy with your shares of Boeing stock. Over that period, they pay back almost their full value in dividends, and they are now worth $400 a share. So you are extremely happy with their management, and proud of yourself for picking such a good stock.

Of course now in 2020 it is easy to point fingers at them being shortsighted, but I have never seen anyone complain about a stock they owned going up. Ever. As long as that is the system, and as long as humans like making money, you aren't going to get companies that prioritize worker security over shareholders. Because workers are a tool, profits are the objective.

[Trunksee]

What are you talking about? Are you even following the issue, because you ranting about this being about checks to everyday people makes me think you don't at all. The Democrats aren't taking issue with that, it's the large business portion, it's the specific airline bailout. Try to keep up, because there is nothing that protects workers in those industries, nothing to prevent the repeat of the trump tax cut buybacks. That's the Democrats issues with the Republican bill.

No I have been yet democrats have still added in many other things into this bill trying to ride its coattails into passing. Why is all this other stuff even in here? I understand debating about how the companies use the money, I get that, but how much of big business went under in 2008? Yes some of it was used in ways we don't like but sometimes the end justifies the means. Id rather have companies do that stuff than say screw it were cashing out and closing the doors. I still don't understand why anything green needs to be in this bill. Why gender and race checks need to be in this bill and there are probably hundreds of other things that have nothing to do with the core of this needed bail out some how involved.