[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[leviathonlx]

I mean, I don't know why this was delayed so much. It's 30 mins of content for basically irrelevant gear, 1 completely reused asset, and one asset that uses 50% of his abilities from other assets. I can respect that the zone itself probably took a little time to develop though, but 5.35 is WAY too far away to justify this IMO..

To drag out subs since if they released it all at once most people would finish it all in 3 weeks then unsub till the next major patch in 6 months since there's not much else in the meaningful repeatable content category. It's the same reason they do things like locking the 490 weapons behind an item you need 7 of but can only get one of a week.

[Wangming]

I mean, I don't know why this was delayed so much. It's 30 mins of content for basically irrelevant gear, 1 completely reused asset, and one asset that uses 50% of his abilities from other assets. I can respect that the zone itself probably took a little time to develop though, but 5.35 is WAY too far away to justify this IMO.

It might have something to do with a certain virus and Japan being pretty much the second country to get hit by it. We still get more content more frequently than WoW. It's okay.

[Rogalicus]

We still get more content more frequently than WoW.

8.2 alone had more content than 5.x combined will have, but OK.

[Dugna]

8.2 alone had more content than 5.x combined will have, but OK.

but thats a outright lie? The only reason it might feel like that is because Blizz timegates their shit to all hell now. Go do 8.2s content without all the massive timegates and its done in under a day.

[Rogalicus]

but thats a outright lie? The only reason it might feel like that is because Blizz timegates their shit to all hell now. Go do 8.2s content without all the massive timegates and its done in under a day.

Last time I checked Blizzard didn't cut single patch in 3-4 parts released over several months like SE regularly does. And 2 raid wings (actual wings, not 4 round/square platforms), 2 new dungeons and 2 new zones in a single patch (when was the last time SE added new zones? Ah, right, 5.0) are only slightly lower than whole post-expansion content in FFXIV.

[Dugna]

Last time I checked Blizzard didn't cut single patch in 3-4 parts released over several months like SE regularly does. And 2 raid wings (actual wings, not 4 round/square platforms), 2 new dungeons and 2 new zones in a single patch (when was the last time SE added new zones? Ah, right, 5.0) are only slightly lower than whole post-expansion content in FFXIV.

they timegate the content for weeks and months so they do the same stuff except that even when its released they timegate that further. FF14 have added new parts to current zones and developed the story in those zones further without needing to make more useless barren zones where you do nothing but timegated dailies you can't even do at your own pace.

SE also released the Firmament and Nier raid in that time. WoW fights are not at all original in the slightest like you think they're they follow the same reused patterns over and over and over and over like SE does with their fights so the room size doesn't mean shit.

Each patch of FF14 rivals or beats the ones from BFA easily and with alot less drought.

[Rogalicus]

FF14 have added new parts to current zones and developed the story in those zones further without needing to make more useless barren zones where you do nothing but timegated dailies you can't even do at your own pace

Still beats doing absolutely nothing, no? Like where's any open world content in FFXIV? When was the last time you left the capital on anything but DoL?

SE also released the Firmament and Nier raid in that time. WoW fights are not at all original in the slightest like you think they're they follow the same reused patterns over and over and over and over like SE does with their fights so the room size doesn't mean shit.

You mean 25 x 10 meter patch of land with reused Ishgard assets and copied first zone of Automata? Wow, that's really impressive. And on topic of fights not being original: I'm still waiting for a FFXIV fight that's not "run out of orange, stack on cross, run out with blue/red, kill add, use healing CD for big cast".

Each patch of FF14 rivals or beats the ones from BFA easily and with alot less drought.

Without examples that's just bullshit.

[leviathonlx]

they timegate the content for weeks and months so they do the same stuff except that even when its released they timegate that further. FF14 have added new parts to current zones and developed the story in those zones further without needing to make more useless barren zones where you do nothing but timegated dailies you can't even do at your own pace.

SE also released the Firmament and Nier raid in that time. WoW fights are not at all original in the slightest like you think they're they follow the same reused patterns over and over and over and over like SE does with their fights so the room size doesn't mean shit.

Each patch of FF14 rivals or beats the ones from BFA easily and with alot less drought.

I will fully agree that Blizz does the same exact shit and that neither company is innocent though 8.3 wasn't at all timegated outside a basic thing like making mythic unlock a week later. I will also disagree that FF14 has that large of patches or that WoW has less creative mechanics compared to FF14's very fully planned out fights that you know what'll happen down to the second. And please the Firmament isn't what I'd call great exciting 'content' it's literally the same exact scrip shit we've been doing for years with a new coat of paint and FF14 has never added new parts to zones ever and has almost no outdoor content unless you mean instanced areas like Eureka which was really just 4 different instances.

In the end I admittedly am scratching my head when I'll see someone actually believe that FF14 patches like 5.2 are a 'ton of content' so it's good that the patches content is timegated out for almost 2 months and that's what it is, a timegate to draw out subs and, most likely, let them finish content that they probably are behind on developing just like how Eureka got delayed multiple times in SB. Outside Savage and the Extreme trial which most people serious about will complete in a couple weeks the majority of the patches content is either 1 time content completed in a few hours that most will never look at or touch again (the MSQ and regular trial), content that is a gimmick that will die out in a few weeks like BLU once people get the rewards (the ocean fishing), content that is a re-skin of shit we've been doing for years (Ishgard), or content that is similar to older content yet manages to feel even more soulless than normal (whoever thought of making a beast tribe centered around gathering is an idiot. It's seriously just 4 minutes of flying mostly since Rak'tika is a pain in the ass to navigate even with flying and 1 minute of doing the quest since it's not at all creative). Even much of the 'new' content over the years wasn't exactly that new and more just a re-skin of prior content. HoH for example was basically just Asian PotD with a new gimmick in a single button press item for the summons. At this point I just want to see the game release meaningful repeatable content which it doesn't really have and for me personally I'd want to see more outdoor content rather than more instances. And to top it all off they keep adding helmets in these patches and can't even be assed to make these helmets they just made work on the Hrothgar and Viera.

[Dugna]

Still beats doing absolutely nothing, no? Like where's any open world content in FFXIV? When was the last time you left the capital on anything but DoL?

You mean 25 x 10 meter patch of land with reused Ishgard assets and copied first zone of Automata? Wow, that's really impressive. And on topic of fights not being original: I'm still waiting for a FFXIV fight that's not "run out of orange, stack on cross, run out with blue/red, kill add, use healing CD for big cast".

Without examples that's just bullshit.

1st point -Hunts, Beast tribes, and then DoL so I can work with DoH.

2nd point- WoW itself is not much better in boss designs again considering we still use patchwerk a fight that is nearing 20 years old at this point as a reference for majority of fights. With older bosses being the other references. You know why you might think WoW fights are "original" is because they added RNG to fucking mechs that isn't original or good design at all its just rolling the dice till the stars align its why theres so many stupid wipes on mythic fights when it could be consolidated hard.

3rd point - Each major .X patch adds a new raid a new dungeon and more MSQ more of existing the already existin systems.

I will fully agree that Blizz does the same exact shit and that neither company is innocent. I will also disagree that FF14 has that large of patches or that WoW has less creative mechanics compared to FF14's very fully planned out fights that you know what'll happen down to the second. And please the Firmament isn't what I'd call great exciting 'content' it's literally the same exact scrip shit we've been doing for years with a new coat of paint and FF14 has never added new parts to zones ever and has almost no outdoor content unless you mean instanced areas like Eureka which was really just 4 different instances.

In the end I admittedly am scratching my head when I'll see someone actually believe that FF14 patches like 5.2 are a 'ton of content' so it's good that the patches content is timegated out for almost 2 months and that's what it is, a timegate to draw out subs and, most likely, let them finish content that they probably are behind on developing just like how Eureka got delayed multiple times in SB. Outside Savage and the Extreme trial which most people serious about will complete in a couple weeks the majority of the patches content is either 1 time content completed in a few hours that most will never look at or touch again (the MSQ and regular trial), content that is a gimmick that will die out in a few weeks like BLU once people get the rewards (the ocean fishing), content that is a re-skin of shit we've been doing for years (Ishgard), or content that is similar to older content yet manages to feel even more soulless than normal (whoever thought of making a beast tribe centered around gathering is an idiot. It's seriously just 4 minutes of flying mostly since Rak'tika is a pain in the ass to navigate even with flying and 1 minute of doing the quest since it's not at all creative). Even much of the 'new' content over the years wasn't exactly that new and more just a re-skin of prior content. HoH for example was basically just Asian PotD with a new gimmick in a single button press item for the summons. At this point I just want to see the game release meaningful repeatable content which it doesn't really have and for me personally I'd want to see more outdoor content rather than more instances. And to top it all off they keep adding helmets in these patches and can't even be assed to make these helmets they just made work on the Hrothgar and Viera.

So you've done Beast tribes right? For every Beast tribe is a new part of the zone made with new quests and new storylines and new rewards that culminate to a new reward at the end. and Repeatable content like WoW does it now where it quite litterally never ends and the WHOLE GAME IS BASED ON IT is horrendus theres no relaxation point theres no "Hey I feel done".

Ishgard is another culmination of the story and gameplay mechs. That have been built over years and not ditched for a RNG slot roulette. Working towards a residental zone the coummunity does something in the process to make is alot of fun.

Anyway gotta sleep will reply to whatever else later, but man yall have some instant hate boners on this site for anytime somebody mentions this game does better then WoW. Like making stupid comments as "8.2 has more content then all of 5.x" when its false from the get go.

[dope_danny]

Man i had the worst luck finishing my BSM crafter relic. 30 HQ items using the new scripdump and HQ titanbronze ingots. My macro gets that to 83% HQ chance at the lowest.

37 FAILURES. MANY OF THEM AT 99%.

That must have wasted me like 150,000gil, not much really but still i hate pissing gil away on literally nothing. At least the Dragonsung hammer was a pretty nice upgrade.

[Hyral]

Still beats doing absolutely nothing, no? Like where's any open world content in FFXIV? When was the last time you left the capital on anything but DoL?

You mean 25 x 10 meter patch of land with reused Ishgard assets and copied first zone of Automata? Wow, that's really impressive. And on topic of fights not being original: I'm still waiting for a FFXIV fight that's not "run out of orange, stack on cross, run out with blue/red, kill add, use healing CD for big cast".

Without examples that's just bullshit.

Come on. If you are going to be reductionist it will go both ways, all this amazing "open world" content in WoW is just grind these mobs/click on those reused assets to complete the WQ and then do it all over again and again and again until the RNG reward you get is the one you wanted or until you finally get enough rep for your grind gated flying. XIV and WoW are different types of games with focus on different things. XIV doesn't have what you like, WoW does, dunno why that's upsetting you. If anything you should be thankful XIV has been succeeding lately, odds are they wouldn't be bothering fixing WoW right now if there was no other popular MMO in sight. The market can exist with more than one type of MMO in it and if you don't like one there's the other for you and your endless grinding needs.

[Rogalicus]

Come on. If you are going to be reductionist it will go both ways, all this amazing "open world" content in WoW is just grind these mobs/click on those reused assets to complete the WQ and then do it all over again and again and again until the RNG reward you get is the one you wanted or until you finally get enough rep for your grind gated flying. XIV and WoW are different types of games with focus on different things. XIV doesn't have what you like, WoW does, dunno why that's upsetting you. If anything you should be thankful XIV has been succeeding lately, odds are they wouldn't be bothering fixing WoW right now if there was no other popular MMO in sight. The market can exist with more than one type of MMO in it and if you don't like one there's the other for you and your endless grinding needs.

That's a lot of words for essentially calling me fanboy of the game I haven't played for 2.5 years. I'm not praising WoW's open world content, I just said that at least it exists. I'm not praising infinite grinds in WoW, it's just that there's at least something to do compared to FFXIV's timegated tomestone grind in braindead old content or just raidlogging. I'm not happy about FFXIV's success because it's success of model without any player agency that goes against the very definition of video games and, surprisingly, even against the whole franchise design.

[Granyala]

Man i had the worst luck finishing my BSM crafter relic. 30 HQ items using the new scripdump and HQ titanbronze ingots. My macro gets that to 83% HQ chance at the lowest.

37 FAILURES. MANY OF THEM AT 99%.

Ouch!
That's SE's RNG generator for you, it tends to cluster the results.

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Still beats doing absolutely nothing, no? Like where's any open world content in FFXIV? When was the last time you left the capital on anything but DoL?

Every day I play.
It's called "beast tribe quests" and comparable to WoW's daily quests of eld.

[Hyral]

That's a lot of words for essentially calling me fanboy of the game I haven't played for 2.5 years. I'm not praising WoW's open world content, I just said that at least it exists. I'm not praising infinite grinds in WoW, it's just that there's at least something to do compared to FFXIV's timegated tomestone grind in braindead old content or just raidlogging. I'm not happy about FFXIV's success because it's success of model without any player agency that goes against the very definition of video games and, surprisingly, even against the whole franchise design.

I used a lot of words because I hoped the point would come through but I guess it didn't. I'll try one more time.

You discard non-PvE content in XIV as nonexistent, and the reason, I assume, is because you only care about PvE content. Which is why you bring up what I consider to be pointless endless grinds as proof of content WoW has. But look at it from the perspective of someone who isn't you. To me WoW has no content at all. You may cite me dungeons, new zones with reused "open world content" and heck maybe even the Nzoth invasion thing lately. To me all that is "kill things" and none of it is appealing. Been there, killed that. To me that is not content. Because I don't care about the endless grind that is most PvE in MMOs. To me all that is as relevant as Ishgard Restoration is to you.

That's what you are not seeing. XIV has more than just pve grinds. You don't like that content? You think it's droll and meaningless? Cool. But it exists, and for people who do like it and can't find it in WoW it is content. Everything you mention about WoW is things I don't care about because I tire of killing random stuff all the time and get bored of a dungeon after clearing it a couple of times. So to me WoW content is shallow with a very short lifespan while XIV has alternatives that entertain me longer.

Again, two MMOs focus on different things, one has things you like and one doesn't. There's no reason why both MMOs should be the same. You can reduce the content you don't like to trivial things but the same can be done to what you like so that's not an honest way of viewing it.

[Granyala]

Man i had the worst luck finishing my BSM crafter relic. 30 HQ items using the new scripdump and HQ titanbronze ingots. My macro gets that to 83% HQ chance at the lowest.
37 FAILURES. MANY OF THEM AT 99%.
That must have wasted me like 150,000gil, not much really but still i hate pissing gil away on literally nothing. At least the Dragonsung hammer was a pretty nice upgrade.

Either your craft gear is REALLY CRAPPY or your macro is broken.
These are about the difficulty of normal lv80 leveling craft.

No brain needed: Reflect -> Manipulation -> Delicate Synth till 9 stacks of Inner Quiet -> Byregot -> Careful synth to finish.
Disappointingly easy, to be honest. I expected more after your post.

Second stage is a little more interesting but sadly, still easier than creating 460 gear.

[Granyala]

Just anecdotally, I feel like most people make their macros far more complex than they need to. Likely from the usual attitude of, "If the game puts it in front of me, there must be a reason!" when really you can just spam the shit out of Delicate most of the time and be fine.

Yup. Though to be fair: my 460 macros aren't the epitome of efficiency either.
Efficient usually requires very high stats, and as a stingy S.O.B.™ I prefer to overmeld as little as possible.

[Katchii]

That's a lot of words for essentially calling me fanboy of the game I haven't played for 2.5 years. I'm not praising WoW's open world content, I just said that at least it exists. I'm not praising infinite grinds in WoW, it's just that there's at least something to do compared to FFXIV's timegated tomestone grind in braindead old content or just raidlogging. I'm not happy about FFXIV's success because it's success of model without any player agency that goes against the very definition of video games and, surprisingly, even against the whole franchise design.

It's not your thing, that's OK, but to say the design of the game goes against the very definition of video games and MMO design is a bunch of hyperbolic nonsense.

[Acidbaron]

Finally found out that there's PvP in this game, is that even popular? Tried to join on my 31 BLM had a queue time for over 30 minutes.

Or is it something done only at higher levels? Is it worth doing notice there is some gear?

[Wrecktangle]

So a quick backstory. I was looking to join a blind learning PF for the new EX last night. I've said dozens of times that some of the most fun in this game I've had is learning EX trials day 1. They're just challenging enough to be fun and can easily learn in a full lockout with decent players. So I saw a PF with just a DRK in it that said "I am a tank, but not a MT so you will have to. I will provoke if the boss needs me to, but otherwise you are the MT). Naturally they were all alone and no one was going to join that.

So with no good parties up looking for a PLD I put up a blind learning PF for the new EX. That tank joined my party. I debated asking them out on why they put that in their description, or simply kicking them because I needed a real partner for a tank. In the end, it's a blind learning it can't be that bad.

We did maybe 9 pulls? In those 9 pulls their highest recorded DPS was 2.1k DPS, roughly 20% of the total DPS I was doing despite similar gear. They're average vuln stack count was 3. They're average CPM was 10.1.

Stick with your gut team. If you have doubts, it's probably for a good reason.

It might have something to do with a certain virus and Japan being pretty much the second country to get hit by it. We still get more content more frequently than WoW. It's okay.

Considering how a development pipeline works, no that's not accurate as this content would have been designed and marked well before the outbreak.

Regarding WoW content, more frequently sure if you consider timegating patches (i.e. relic weapon could easily have been included on 5.2 launch, but then it would ruin their ilvl framework they've built). I'm not sure it's actually "more" content though. Not saying WoW is more or less, simply saying I'm not prepared to quantify either game, and unless you're prepared to cite actual examples to support your statement you shouldn't either.

but thats a outright lie? The only reason it might feel like that is because Blizz timegates their shit to all hell now. Go do 8.2s content without all the massive timegates and its done in under a day.

FF14 does the same thing. Timegating has it's place in each game, but both developers overuse it so poorly it's become an industry standard and I don't think either game does it in a way to improve the player experience. I don't like seeing Blizzard cited as doing it in some egregious fashion (they do though), when SE is equally awful IMHO.

WoW fights are not at all original in the slightest like you think they're they follow the same reused patterns over and over and over and over like SE does with their fights so the room size doesn't mean shit.

While both games recycle mechanics and both games have unique ones (for instance the usual hidden mechanic in each ultimate is a great methodology, but overuse can be bad). Just looking at the most recent tier:

Ruby EX - I actually found the liquefaction and flexiclaw mechanics fun, but everything else was pretty standard fair.

E5S - Fury's 14 was a neat mechanic I personally don't recall seeing before. Yeah it's the same old "be knocked back into something", but the way they did it felt different enough that I was pleased. Picking up the orbs was a neat callback to ARR Ramuh (a very well designed fight IMO), but not new. Chain Lightning is the same old pass the debuff mechanic.

E6S - Had a very cool tankbuster interaction. I give huge points for this. The two bosses out at the same time and merging were fun, albeit not exactly a new mechanic, but done well enough that I give credit.

E7S - Had a really interesting add phase and one of the best designed tankbuster mechanics I've seen I think in the game so far, but the actual mechanics behind it have been used before several times (I remember Neo Exdeath having the mechanic too, as a raidwide though not a tankbuster). Portals sound really complicated, but they're honestly trivial and the last phase of the fight I literally cleared like the 2nd time I saw it.

E8S - Haven't started my pug prog on it yet. so no input.

I do genuinely enjoy raiding in FF14, but the setting is often completely irrelevant and so are the thematics of most boss fights. I.e. I know I'm just zoning into some random location that has little to no meaning and is uniform in shape with minimal interaction with the environment. I think that is a detractor in quality when compared to WoW.

The first time I saw Jaina freeze the sea and us take the fight to her. That was impressive. Or in Mekkatorque where you get shrunk and have to not get stepped on by teammates and hijack the robots in the arena to destroy them before they overwhelm the raid. Not only that the debris on the arena is used to LoS detonations. A trivial reused mechanic, but one that interacts with the arena. That's a big plus. Opulence is a literally a gauntlet that your team splits up in, acquires rare gems to power up, and then when raiding the treasury is confronted with an enchanted treasure monster.

Going further back there's fights like Elisande where previous phases changed later phases of the fight depending on how you did, when you pushed/transitioned etc.

You can hate on WoW for a plethora of items, but for creative mechanics or thematic raids/boss design I'm just not so sure.

WoW itself is not much better in boss designs again considering we still use patchwerk a fight that is nearing 20 years old at this point as a reference for majority of fights. With older bosses being the other references. You know why you might think WoW fights are "original" is because they added RNG to fucking mechs that isn't original or good design at all its just rolling the dice till the stars align its why theres so many stupid wipes on mythic fights when it could be consolidated hard.

Patchwork isn't cited as a reference for complex or good design, and it's only 12 years old not 20. It's used to denote that a boss fight contains a single enemy with 100% uptime. I don't know why you even mention it here... It's completely irrelevant to the argument you're trying to make.

RNG to mechanics? I'd need examples and a more detailed explanation as to why this is bad... Titan uses RNG to determine whether he goes to car or cannon phase. New EX does the same thing. So by your statement this is bad too right?

Stupid wipes on Mythic due to RNG? Anytime we ever wiped was because someone did something incorrectly. Top 20 US.

3rd point - Each major .X patch adds a new raid a new dungeon and more MSQ more of existing the already existin systems.

Don't WoW major patches do the same thing? Last I checked they typically include new dungeons, new story, and new raids too as well as changes to existing systems... Again, not arguing the frequency or quality, merely the methodology.

[Rogalicus]

I used a lot of words because I hoped the point would come through but I guess it didn't. I'll try one more time.

You discard non-PvE content in XIV as nonexistent, and the reason, I assume, is because you only care about PvE content. Which is why you bring up what I consider to be pointless endless grinds as proof of content WoW has. But look at it from the perspective of someone who isn't you. To me WoW has no content at all. You may cite me dungeons, new zones with reused "open world content" and heck maybe even the Nzoth invasion thing lately. To me all that is "kill things" and none of it is appealing. Been there, killed that. To me that is not content. Because I don't care about the endless grind that is most PvE in MMOs. To me all that is as relevant as Ishgard Restoration is to you.

That's what you are not seeing. XIV has more than just pve grinds. You don't like that content? You think it's droll and meaningless? Cool. But it exists, and for people who do like it and can't find it in WoW it is content. Everything you mention about WoW is things I don't care about because I tire of killing random stuff all the time and get bored of a dungeon after clearing it a couple of times. So to me WoW content is shallow with a very short lifespan while XIV has alternatives that entertain me longer.

Again, two MMOs focus on different things, one has things you like and one doesn't. There's no reason why both MMOs should be the same. You can reduce the content you don't like to trivial things but the same can be done to what you like so that's not an honest way of viewing it.

I see the game for what it is. If the game goes for vertical progression and gear grind as the main content, I compare it to other gear grind game. What other stuff FFXIV has? Crafting/Gathering? Essentially WoW with macro instead of Craft button and gear grind. Ishgard restoration? Coupled with crafting simplification it's nothing more than catch up zone for what SE probably seems as less popular aspect of the game than they want. Treasure map? RNG and mob grind. Hunts? Mob grind. Beast Tribes? Mount timegated behind month of doing 4 2-minute long dailies. Gold Saucer? Bunch of shallow mini games that gate a few mounts. Did I miss something?

Everything FFXIV does is mediocre and shallow compared to many other games. You might think that 'diversity' of content is worth the lack of quality, I don't. That's what it comes down to.

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It's not your thing, that's OK, but to say the design of the game goes against the very definition of video games and MMO design is a bunch of hyperbolic nonsense.

I didn't say a thing about MMO design, even though I think the game is lacking there too. As for why I feel that game is a bad Final Fantasy successor, remember wealth of progression systems in most of previous games and compare it to railroaded classes of FFXIV.