Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Edge-]

Yeah, fuck Sanders for doing that.

But is he also a fake progressive that, in your words - "do[esn't] care about rape victims or the victims of US war crimes"? Is he just as bad as all of them and you'll never support him again or something?

[Felya]

But is he also a fake progressive that, in your words - "do[esn't] care about rape victims or the victims of US war crimes"? Is he just as bad as all of them and you'll never support him again or something?

AOC as well... she backed Biden.

The neighbor backing Reade’s story, also voting Biden.

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They'd be more believable as an anti-fascist or GoP organization. But only fighting the symptom and not the disease...

I have a fun little scenario for you. Lenin is shot... who do you support and why? Trotski vs Stalin...

[Thepersona]

I have a fun little scenario for you. Lenin is shot... who do you support and why? Trotski vs Stalin...

I'd support Trotski. Just for the fun of having a communist party fracturing in 10 new different wings per week (this is a joke on the fourth internationalists)

[PACOX]

I'm glad you're finally on board to vote for Biden in November.

Did I say that?

[Felya]

I'd support Trotski. Just for the fun of having a communist party fracturing in 10 new different wings per week (this is a joke on the fourth internationalists)

I doubt he will respond, but that’s where I was heading.

I also would like to know reasoning behind two choices that are similar and you favor. I think such a thought experiment would expose the illogical nature of not voting or voting for third party. It’s easy to say no one, but selecting between two good choices, would highlight the inconsistency between two bad ones. Although, they could just response they won’t vote then either. Which just paints a Goldilocks version of voting.

[Theodarzna]

This is one of the better posts in this discussion.

Some other people who are fully in on Biden are going out of their way to see 2016 repeat itself.

I'm not convinced of the "If we get Biden well we can fight in the future" mostly on the grounds of Larry Summers and Jamie Diamond running the economy. Look; if one accepts that the country has been deteriorating and the conditions of Leftist movements have only gotten worse over the decades, than one has to seriously ask, what could Biden do that makes action in the future more possible from a tactile perspective? Hell, given the very existence of an Antifa in the United States and it having a profile and place in public consciousness now under Trump were it never did before, even if its often just half-baked LARP sessions, is far more activism and action than has been seen in ages.

Today people organize rent strikes and actual strikes across the retail sector. That shit DID NOT HAPPEN under Obama and he, like Biden, listened to Larry Summers and company and oversaw a vast hollowing out of much the country as well as having his signature achievement basically be "Force everyone to buy private insurance plans and have extra bills and red tape to deal with". Obama wanted TPP/TTIP much as Clinton made NAFTA happen and crushed the ability of organized Labour to unionize. And today the party is advocating the nomination of the guy who wrote the ruinous bankruptcy bill AND said he'd veto M4A and has tapped Larry Summers as advisor and likely to put Jamie Diamond in charge of parts of the economy and he sees the future of the party as Pete Buttigieg.

I mean, even if you make the case for "BUT THE JUDGES!!" Umm what kinda Judges do you think are going to be nominated? Like that despite everything the Dems have done, every possible instance of them telling Leftists to go fuck themselves, that they are going to seriously offer judges who will enact Socialism by Kritarchy? At least when Republicans go to Christian Conservatives they are telling those voters "We will put in judges to ban abortion". Are the Democrats actually promising Judges that will by some judicial magic make Socialism happen despite the whole party hating Leftist policies and ideas and organizing and shifting heaven and earth to defeat them, exerting more energy in defeating Bernie Sanders then they EVER did to push for Universal Healthcare or shit, even token crumbs out of this recent bailout slush fund for corporate America, that THAT party is totally going to give out judges that will totally make M4A legally a thing via judicial voodoo. Like at least promising judges whom will repeal Roe v. Wade is something specific. This is the most vague shit set of, not even promises, suggestions and implications. The Democrats have otherwise signed off on everything Trump has asked for, often without a complaint, and the only things this party has seriously rallied to do is to investigate a fashionable conspiracy theory that didn't end up going anywhere, and to prevent Bernie Sanders from being nominated.

Basically, for one to believe this incrementalism shite, one has to basically ignore everything they see the Democrats doing and pretend its all part of some QAnon "Trust the Plan" nonsense, that really the Democrats are despite all appearances to the contrary a super secret long march cabal for Socialism.

[Felya]

Today people organize rent strikes and actual strikes across the retail sector. That shit DID NOT HAPPEN under Obama.

Excuse me?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

So... no... it made the previous protesters fighting Wallstreet, shift to fighting nazis. That’s counter productive to what you are claiming.

[Thepersona]

Excuse me?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

So... no... it made the previous protesters fighting Wallstreet, shift to fighting nazis. That’s counter productive to what you are claiming.

What the fuck... did theo miss Occupy wall street? dude, that was like, the closest thing the US had to an actual revolution in decades.

[Theodarzna]

What the fuck... did theo miss Occupy wall street? dude, that was like, the closest thing the US had to an actual revolution in decades.

Occupy Wall Street achieved what? A blip that faded a few months after starting, its energy achieving nothing, they went to sleep and now its big leaders go to the Davos Forum.

Also Antifa has pretty much remained consistent these last four years. Plus, despite my disagreements with AnComs, I'll consider Antifa > Occupy given where Occupiers ended up going.

[Felya]

What the fuck... did theo miss Occupy wall street? dude, that was like, the closest thing the US had to an actual revolution in decades.

It was progress from this, until nazis came along:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Seattle_WTO_protests

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Occupy Wall Street achieved what? A blip that faded a few months after starting, its energy achieving nothing, they went to sleep and now its big leaders go to the Davos Forum.

It put spotlight on wallstreet corruption and made 1% a standard in American lexicon.

Also Antifa has pretty much remained consistent these last four years. Plus, despite my disagreements with AnComs, I'll consider Antifa > Occupy given where Occupiers ended up going.

Because nazis replaces wallstreet... Occupy was born from WTO riots, fascists put an end to it, because new villains were marching.

Edit: What Theo is highlighting, is the sort of set back Trump set us on. Where before the right went as far as corporatist, now we have fucking fascists. Another 4 years and we will be another 4 years behind any punishment for corporations like Trump.

[Thepersona]

Because nazis replaces wallstreet... Occupy was born from WTO riots, fascists put an end to it, because new villains were marching.

And said nazis resurfaced because of the excess melanin of a president.

[Edge-]

Umm what kinda Judges do you think are going to be nominated?

At the very least.

Not someone who has literally never tried a case and was compared to "My Cousin Vinny" by a Republican Senator.

Probably not someone with credible allegations that they were involved in suppressing black votes.

Wrote, in college, that promotion racial diversity was "entrenching racial intolerance" and generally complain about anything not exclusively catering to straight white folk.


Or wrote that diversity is code for "relaxed standards", called birth control an "assault on nature", and repeatedly argued that gay marriage would undermine marriage and was bad for children.

We don't exactly have a list of judges, nor any liberal groups like the Heritage Foundation or Federalist Society to provide pre-vetted lists of activist judges, so we can't say for certain. But I'm fairly confident that Biden won't brag that a key part of his vetting process for nominees is letting the "FAKE NEWS MEDIA" vet them for him.

[Felya]

And said nazis resurfaced because of the excess melanin of a president.

Because Trump normalized it.

[Theodarzna]

At the very least.

Not someone who has literally never tried a case and was compared to "My Cousin Vinny" by a Republican Senator.

Probably not someone with credible allegations that they were involved in suppressing black votes.

Wrote, in college, that promotion racial diversity was "entrenching racial intolerance" and generally complain about anything not exclusively catering to straight white folk.


Or wrote that diversity is code for "relaxed standards", called birth control an "assault on nature", and repeatedly argued that gay marriage would undermine marriage and was bad for children.

We don't exactly have a list of judges, nor any liberal groups like the Heritage Foundation or Federalist Society to provide pre-vetted lists of activist judges, so we can't say for certain. But I'm fairly confident that Biden won't brag that a key part of his vetting process for nominees is letting the "FAKE NEWS MEDIA" vet them for him.

So, not the covert agents for Socialism by Kritarchy. So what I said holds, unlike Republicans who tell the Christian Conservatives "Our judges will ban abortion" nothing is actually being promised to Leftists in concrete terms. Nothing that can be tangibly said is going to be done, but its left to the imagination.

[Felya]

So, not the covert agents for Socialism by Kritarchy. So what I said holds, unlike Republicans who tell the Christian Conservatives "Our judges will ban abortion" nothing is actually being promised to Leftists in concrete terms. Nothing that can be tangibly said is going to be done, but its left to the imagination.

Yes, the left is not all on the same wavelength and the same script. Here are Biden’s promises:
https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/

Something you might find interesting based on your previous posting:

https://joebiden.com/vawa/

Earlier this year, a bipartisan coalition in the House of Representatives passed the Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act of 2019 (VAWA 2019), which includes significant, forward-looking improvements and innovations proposed by advocates, survivors, lawyers, experts, prosecutors, and law enforcement who are in the trenches protecting and supporting survivors. Last week, every single Senate Democrat signed on to the Senate version of the House-passed bill. But, Leader McConnell is refusing to bring the bill to the floor in the Senate. There’s no reason the Senate shouldn’t pass this reauthorization now and enact it long before President Biden’s first day in office. But if they don’t, Joe Biden will make enacting the VAWA reauthorization one of his top first 100 day priorities.

[Edge-]

So, not the covert agents for Socialism by Kritarchy. So what I said holds, unlike Republicans who tell the Christian Conservatives "Our judges will ban abortion" nothing is actually being promised to Leftists in concrete terms. Nothing that can be tangibly said is going to be done, but its left to the imagination.

Hey, you're talking to someone that's long argued that Democrats should follow Republicans in weaponizing and politicizing the SCOTUS and judiciary, so I think you may be barking up the wrong tree a bit.

My point was that while we don't know exactly who Biden may nominate to these positions, we're not going to get the absolute gong-show of nominees that we've had the past 3 years. And regardless of where you stand on the political spectrum, that's probably a pretty good thing.

https://www.politico.com/2020-electi...ues/joe-biden/

This appears to be updated as of March 2020 so it's still relatively recent. I don't agree with everything and it's obvious he's not a hardcore progressive, but based on the ultra-short writeup of his positions on key issues I don't see him nominating judges that would be particularly objectionable in any way.

Though what does the Kritarchy even have to do with this? We're not talking about tribal judges running small tribes in Ye Old Testament times.

[Felya]

Just a reminder, mods are now deleting all replies to this. Don’t make their jobs more difficult, by creating more posts for them to delete. Your reply won’t exist soon anyway...

[Theodarzna]

Yes, that's the basic problem. Unless there is a very specific promise to enact a certain policy then a corporate democrat like Biden is just not going to do it.

Even if there is a promise, we have to fall back to what Hillary Clinton once said and ask "Is this a private position or a public position?" on that issue. Why Sanders has broad appeal is because I can say with no uncertain terms that his policies would provide a real tangible material benefit to my life. I believe he actually believes in them.

Biden? The best people can say for Biden is that "Well if he is elected then someday, maybe uhhh we will start thinking about it" and Biden has already said his ideal "Next generation" is Pete Buttigieg. So, lets be honest, this is not a party with Leftist intent.

[Zaktar]

Just a reminder, mods are now deleting all replies to this. Don’t make their jobs more difficult, by creating more posts for them to delete. Your reply won’t exist soon anyway...

Another thing to do is to pre-edit the content of the post out if you must reply as in cases like yours.

[Sunseeker]

Nah, fuck both the Trump kids and Hunter.

Yes, we get it, you don't give a shit and aren't participating.

Can you add "not participating in this thread" to that as well?