If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Unbelievable]

A mech Tauren/Draenei size would look pathetic. And would need to be scaled much bigger to give the Gnome a proper looking cockpit unless you just want to show the gnomes head only and at that point it might as well just be a cyborg.


We already have mech mounts that everyone can use.



Yeah. Idk why he keeps arguing about size needing to be gnome/goblin size. We literally have mech mounts that every race can use. I think Teriz is just a gnome/goblin fanatic trying to get more out in the world. The dude was willing and excited for a ghost busters "tinker". If someone is willing to bastardize a class so much that it becomes an alchemist/ghostbuster hybrid with the name tinker is it the name or race exclusivity that they are actually a fan of?

Exactly. couldn't have worded it better.
This small races obsession is not supported by lore or game-play design yet, he keeps going for it

[Triceron]

Yeah. Idk why he keeps arguing about size needing to be gnome/goblin size. We literally have mech mounts that every race can use. I think Teriz is just a gnome/goblin fanatic trying to get more out in the world. The dude was willing and excited for a ghost busters "tinker". If someone is willing to bastardize a class so much that it becomes an alchemist/ghostbuster hybrid with the name tinker is it the name or race exclusivity that they are actually a fan of?

Well having talked to him and asked him about it, it seems he doesn't actually play Gnomes and Goblins at all, so I don't even know if you can consider him a fanatic.

The argument he presents is all based on fitting a 'pattern', that all classes in WoW are based on WC3 Heroes and the Tinker is the only unique-themed class that hasn't been made into a class. From there, I'm honestly not sure why the need to make them Gnome and Goblin exclusive. It really wouldn't boost those race populations as much as it would tank the class itself from completely lacking race options. It's as if Blizzard released a Pandaren-only Monk, it would be less than half the numbers that they are at right now. More than 1/3rd Monk players are Elves! It doesn't popularize the Pandaren race more by making Monks exclusive to them.

It's a weird argument to be honest.

[Teriz]

They're not the same size as regular Draenei. Otherwise, they couldn't have piloted it:



I'd suggest using glasses.

You realize you're making my point for me right?

Jesus christ....-_- Tank abilities that surpass Explosive Shot. try keeping up with the conversation.

If you actually quoted statements, that would make things a bit easier.

Why are you mentioning traps, statues and totems?

Because they're just like Turrets and Robotic carriers.

"Guardian pets are one of three types of pets that can be summoned/created.

See above.

From what i read, it seems to be Broken Isles, not Broken Shore.

This should clear some things up;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw3tutFlM5A

Grav-O-Bomb 3000
35 yd range
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Throw a bomb at the target area which will explode after 3 sec, pullling all enemies to the center and dealing 4 Fire Damage.

Yeah, that more than likely won't be the final ability, because the HotS ability is this;

After a 1.5 second delay, pull enemies toward the center of an area and deal 235 damage. Basic Abilities deal 30% more damage for 5 seconds after casting Grav-O-Bomb 3000.

And the enhanced version looks like this;

Increases Grav-O-Bomb radius by 25% and damage by 50%. Each enemy Hero pulled reduces its cooldown by 12 seconds.

Which makes far more sense for a gravity weapon.

Well, it is true. Because the Tinker has several explosives, and does utilize temporary robotic pets.

Yeah, a Turret and a mobile bomb is not a pet.

Man... did you ever consider a stand-up comedy role? I'm, really, grinning out here...
Oh my god... You gotta go tell Sylvanas that she's a Void elf. I, really, hope people see this because this is unbelievable (no pun-intended).

That's about as close to being Sylvanas as you're going to get. There's no way you're going to get a class where you're a Banshee that finds their body and becomes an undead elf.

Huh? when did i say a Warden and a Night Warrior are the same thing? you're mixing me up with deviantcultist.
I, literally, had separate concepts for Priestess of the Moon and Warden.
But, i guess it's hard to keep track with all the bullshit spewing.

From you? Yes it is.

I didn't know the Hunter could use lunar spells and heal, as well.
Tyrande with Warglaives also shoots an arrow, uses lunar spell and spirit owl:

But, apparently, you have a short-term memory.

That's my point; It's ridiculous to believe that you're going to get a new class that is essentially a Hunter that can shoot beams of lunar energy.

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A mech Tauren/Draenei size would look pathetic. And would need to be scaled much bigger to give the Gnome a proper looking cockpit unless you just want to show the gnomes head only and at that point it might as well just be a cyborg.

Nah. You can make it as wide as a Tauren and as tall as a Draenei and it will be fine. Again, going from Gnome size to Tauren or Draenei size is a huge difference.

We already have mech mounts that everyone can use.

Mounts can't attack and can't enter indoor areas.

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Speaking of size;



And of course Highmountain Tauren are even taller with their antlers;



So a mech of that height and width for Gnomes and Goblins shouldn't be an issue.

[Stormwolf64]

Something that is mechanically similar to another class or a mishmash of a few. Blizzard aint got it in them to make something truly original

[Triceron]

And of course Highmountain Tauren are even taller with their antlers;.

Mechs could still be made to that size.

Gnomes invented World Enlargers, so Mech suits could implement a World Enlarger in the cockpit, scaling down certain races to size. Not Goblin or Gnome size, but small enough to make sense and fit through doorways.

Or the cockpit itself doesn't even need to show the pilot inside, and that way the Mech could be any scale, with the World Enlarger technology explaining how any race can fit inside.

[Imperator4321]

So a mech of that height and width for Gnomes and Goblins shouldn't be an issue.

Have you taken a look at majority of mechs (Shredders, Steam Armor, Warframes) in the game? they're at least twice the height and width of the tallest and widest races in the game a "mech" thats only the size and width of a tauren/draenei would look hilariously silly and pathetic.

Lets not forget how exactly are you justifying this level of exclusivity as a class option the only class with comparable limitations are Demon Hunters who are explicitly members of the Illidari a pretty exclusive club with high entry requirements,

Simply put a "Tinker class"
A: probbaly wouldn't be a "hero" class (that is starting at a higher level) because unlike Death Knights and Demon Hunters theres no organization comparable to the Illidari/Ebon Blade to justify high level Tinkers running around unless you're pulling some secret order of Tinker's out of nowhere
B: No in-universe justification for why other races can't become Tinkers, Goblins/Gnomes are not particularly protective about their technology (goblins have been seen teaching Orcs, Mag'har and Forsaken how to utilize their technology) nor is the techniques and methods used by Tinkers some secret jutsu that you can only master if your below 4ft tall, the Lightforged have members of their society (Artificers) of comparable skill/expertise to what we've seen the best of what Tinkers do (Warframes) which they developed without being taught by Gnomes

Such limitations are silly from both a game design standpoint (shackling a class to some of the least played races in the game) and from a lore standpoint (you can only use a mech if your below 4ft tall? lets just ignore the Kor'kron Machinists and Lightforged Artificers i guess...).

[Ielenia]

A: probbaly wouldn't be a "hero" class (that is starting at a higher level) because unlike Death Knights and Demon Hunters theres no organization comparable to the Illidari/Ebon Blade to justify high level Tinkers running around unless you're pulling some secret order of Tinker's out of nowhere

There are no more "hero class" either, too. DKs and DHs start at level 1, now.

[Imperator4321]

There are no more "hero class" either, too. DKs and DHs start at level 1, now.

It's level 8 actually, they also still have "hero class" in their description, theres also other things like unique starting experience, starting with better gear, ect.

[Unbelievable]

You realize you're making my point for me right?



If you actually quoted statements, that would make things a bit easier.



Because they're just like Turrets and Robotic carriers.



See above.



This should clear some things up;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw3tutFlM5A



Yeah, that more than likely won't be the final ability, because the HotS ability is this;



And the enhanced version looks like this;


Which makes far more sense for a gravity weapon.



Yeah, a Turret and a mobile bomb is not a pet.



That's about as close to being Sylvanas as you're going to get. There's no way you're going to get a class where you're a Banshee that finds their body and becomes an undead elf.



From you? Yes it is.



That's my point; It's ridiculous to believe that you're going to get a new class that is essentially a Hunter that can shoot beams of lunar energy.

How so? Those are, literally, Draenei fitting inside a mech.

"The Gnomish Flame Turret item is a consumable guardian pet, useable by engineers (regardless of specialization). The turret is stationary, and sends a continuous jet of fire towards its target."

"Goblin Bomb Dispenser is a trinket that will send out a bomb to attack the nearest enemy, like Mekgineer Thermaplugg does!

The pet bomb will attack the nearest enemy it detects. If there are no enemies nearby, it will follow you like a pet for about one minute before dying.

Like some other engineering pets, the pet bombs created are levelled equal to your engineering skill divided by 5. Apparently, their level does not affect the amount of damage they do."

He, literally, uses Reaves in Azsuna.

It doesn't state what type of damage HotS abilities do. It, literally, does the same as the HotS version - Pulls targets to the center and deals damage. And, as an enthusiastic of the Island Expedition AI abilities, you advocated for these exact abilities.

That's the closest? you gotta do better, buddy, because your imagination is lackluster. A Dark Ranger doesn't mean you follow the exact same path as what happened to Sylvanas. Just like Death Knights didn't become Death Knights by being corrupted, were not appointed as Lich King, and did not wield Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination. Demon Hunters' eyes didn't get burned by Sargeras and they didn't consume the Skull of Gul'dan.

No, not from me, buddy. The only thing i, possibly, said is Blizzard pushing the Dark Warden archetype, so it might be on the same class as a Dark Ranger.

Ridiculous? nah... Blizzard wouldn't be pushing Tyrande's storyline forward with the whole Night Warrior business, wouldn't have given her new weapon types and appearance, alongside being powerful, if they aren't trying to hype the playerbase towards a Priestess of the Moon. Read between the lines.

Just like how you thought the Demon Hunter was ridiculous, and look where that got you.

Lets not forget how exactly are you justifying this level of exclusivity as a class option the only class with comparable limitations are Demon Hunters who are explicitly members of the Illidari a pretty exclusive club with high entry requirements.

I would have, somewhat, understood if he wanted it to be Gnome and Goblin, exclusively, because of the Gnome and Goblin specializations of Engineering (and being the iconic Technology races).

But, he also wants Vulpera for no apparent reason other than their height. At this point, i knew he didn't make much sense...

[Teriz]

Mechs could still be made to that size.

Gnomes invented World Enlargers, so Mech suits could implement a World Enlarger in the cockpit, scaling down certain races to size. Not Goblin or Gnome size, but small enough to make sense and fit through doorways.

Or the cockpit itself doesn't even need to show the pilot inside, and that way the Mech could be any scale, with the World Enlarger technology explaining how any race can fit inside.

I think the issue is still having a Draenei in a mech be very close in size to a standard Draenei. That simply doesn't work immersion wise.

Meanwhile, a Gnome or Goblin being 3 times larger than a normal size Goblin or Gnome, and going from the shortest race in the game to being the tallest (you could honestly make the mech slightly larger than a fully armored tauren) is definitely a marketable difference, and doesn't require convoluted lore to explain.

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Have you taken a look at majority of mechs (Shredders, Steam Armor, Warframes) in the game? they're at least twice the height and width of the tallest and widest races in the game a "mech" thats only the size and width of a tauren/draenei would look hilariously silly and pathetic.

Well first and foremost we would be looking at new mech models for a class, because Blizzard more than likely wouldn't use existing mount models for a class. Also the size difference between a mech and a mount could simply be explained that the smaller mech is more advanced. Look at Iron Man for example. His suits became smaller and sleeker as his tech advanced. The same occurs in Japanese anime and manga based on mecha. Older ships in Macross were bulky and huge, while later ships became smaller, sleeker, and could hold more weaponry. Gundam had the same situation occur.

Lets not forget how exactly are you justifying this level of exclusivity as a class option the only class with comparable limitations are Demon Hunters who are explicitly members of the Illidari a pretty exclusive club with high entry requirements,

Nah, Druids have similar levels of exclusivity. For a new player you only can choose from 4 races.

Simply put a "Tinker class"
A: probbaly wouldn't be a "hero" class (that is starting at a higher level) because unlike Death Knights and Demon Hunters theres no organization comparable to the Illidari/Ebon Blade to justify high level Tinkers running around unless you're pulling some secret order of Tinker's out of nowhere

Tinker's Union has existed in the Warcraft universe for a very long time, and is mentioned constantly in WoW lore.

B: No in-universe justification for why other races can't become Tinkers, Goblins/Gnomes are not particularly protective about their technology (goblins have been seen teaching Orcs, Mag'har and Forsaken how to utilize their technology) nor is the techniques and methods used by Tinkers some secret jutsu that you can only master if your below 4ft tall, the Lightforged have members of their society (Artificers) of comparable skill/expertise to what we've seen the best of what Tinkers do (Warframes) which they developed without being taught by Gnomes

There's no in-universe justification that all Monks must know Pandaren martial arts and only Pandaren martial arts, but here we are. That's purely an aspect of Blizzard's class design, lore wise there's all types of Monks all over Azeroth. Tinkers would be no different; You would be limited to Goblin and Gnome Tinkers while there would be other possible Tinker groups out there. Nothing wrong with that.

Such limitations are silly from both a game design standpoint (shackling a class to some of the least played races in the game) and from a lore standpoint (you can only use a mech if your below 4ft tall? lets just ignore the Kor'kron Machinists and Lightforged Artificers i guess...).

Not really when you consider the goal is give the class the illusion of a small pilot hopping into a large mech. Only the smaller races can accomplish that without causing serious visibility and performance issues.

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How so? Those are, literally, Draenei fitting inside a mech.

The size of that Draenei next to that Mech he's working on, how large do you think that mech model would be?

"The Gnomish Flame Turret item is a consumable guardian pet, useable by engineers (regardless of specialization). The turret is stationary, and sends a continuous jet of fire towards its target."

"Goblin Bomb Dispenser is a trinket that will send out a bomb to attack the nearest enemy, like Mekgineer Thermaplugg does!

Yeah, we're talking about abilities, not things that engineering items poop out. Again, Statues, Traps, and Totems ain't pets, and neither would a Tinker class turret.

He, literally, uses Reaves in Azsuna.

Okay, so what if I want to use Reeves in Shadowlands? Howabout Northrend? Howabout Pandaria? Howabout Kul Tiras? Howabout Kalimdoor? Howabout the Eastern Kingdoms? Howabout anything outside of Legion content?

Yeah, thought so.

Also that 30 minute cooldown between uses, inability to loot, and inability to enter dungeons or raids really saps all the fun out of your adventures.

It doesn't state what type of damage HotS abilities do. It, literally, does the same as the HotS version - Pulls targets to the center and deals damage. And, as an enthusiastic of the Island Expedition AI abilities, you advocated for these exact abilities.

Did you miss the part where it states that it also increases the damage done (aka reduces armor) to the target afterwards?

That's the closest? you gotta do better...

No I don't.

[Triceron]

I think the issue is still having a Draenei in a mech be very close in size to a standard Draenei. That simply doesn't work immersion wise.

Reaves is a fine size to be, and fits into most doorways. I'd say a Tinker mech being 80% of this size would be more than adequate to fit into all doorways, and still fit a Draenei comfortably.

If anything, the hit box can be scaled down on the Tinker mech to make it work even better. If not, it can be left as a Combat form, with the Tinker having the option to exit the Mech between pulls or passing through halls.


Besides, the whole point of a Mech suit is to look big and huge. That's what makes Mekkatorque's combat suit so cool. If the suit itself is Tauren size for Gnomes and Goblins, it'd look really miniaturized like a toy rather than a combat-viable mech suit.




People want big mechs, not anything smaller than a Tauren.

[BB8]

There are even Vulpera spotted in machines.

[Teriz]

Reaves is a fine size to be, and fits into most doorways. I'd say a Tinker mech being 80% of this size would be more than adequate to fit into all doorways, and still fit a Draenei comfortably.

I would need to see a side by side with a male Draenei.

Besides, the whole point of a Mech suit is to look big and huge. That's what makes Mekkatorque's combat suit so cool. If the suit itself is Tauren size for Gnomes and Goblins, it'd look really miniaturized like a toy rather than a combat-viable mech suit.

Fully armored Tauren aren’t big and huge?

People want big mechs, not anything smaller than a Tauren.

Going from Gnome/Goblin size to being slightly larger than a HM Tauren would be a big mech. I simply don’t see Blizzard making a standard gameplay model considerably larger than a Tauren.

[Triceron]

I would need to see a side by side with a male Draenei.

Why? In a sitting position, even a Tauren can fit into Reaves.

[Teriz]

Why? In a sitting position, even a Tauren can fit into Reaves.

Because I would need to see exactly how large Reeves is.

Even if the Draenei is sitting inside the mech, it would need to be considerably larger than the Draenei in order to not look silly.

[Triceron]

Because I would need to see exactly how large Reeves is.

Even if the Draenei is sitting inside the mech, it would need to be considerably larger than the Draenei in order to not look silly.

There are plenty of videos that show it in action, even walking around Dalaran. Scrub forward to the 3 minute mark.



The current size is pretty massive, which is why I suggest it scaled down to 80% of its current size; that should be the 'slightly larger than Tauren' that you're asking for.

[Deneios]

Taurens on mounts didnt fit most of the doorways in classic. Also anything bigger than a tauren is a pain in the ass to play since you cant see properly from behind the character. Worst case example sunken temple upper floor with male tauren.

Also Teriz being a hypocrite with his voidelf example for dark ranger. Used the same reasoning why tinkers wont be a thing due engineering about 80 pages back.

[qwerty123456]

I think the issue is still having a Draenei in a mech be very close in size to a standard Draenei. That simply doesn't work immersion wise.

Meanwhile, a Gnome or Goblin being 3 times larger than a normal size Goblin or Gnome, and going from the shortest race in the game to being the tallest (you could honestly make the mech slightly larger than a fully armored tauren) is definitely a marketable difference, and doesn't require convoluted lore to explain.

8 divided by 4 doesn't equal 3.

[Teriz]

8 divided by 4 doesn't equal 3.

With antlers, HM Tauren are about 9.

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Taurens on mounts didnt fit most of the doorways in classic. Also anything bigger than a tauren is a pain in the ass to play since you cant see properly from behind the character. Worst case example sunken temple upper floor with male tauren.

Also Teriz being a hypocrite with his voidelf example for dark ranger. Used the same reasoning why tinkers wont be a thing due engineering about 80 pages back.

How?

+The Void Elf racial passive has a chance to imbue your abilities with Shadow magic for 12 seconds. That’s every arrow and throwing weapon in the Hunter arsenal getting imbued with shadow magic.

+Void Elves can resemble undead elves via the new character customization options.

+Hunters now have the ability to tame undead beasts.

In the end, the Dark Ranger is largely a cosmetic deficit. Tinker is a thematic and ability deficit.

I do agree though that Tauren is probably the limit of how large Blizzard would want a player character to be.

[Triceron]

+Hunters now have the ability to tame undead beasts.

In the end, the Dark Ranger is largely a cosmetic deficit.

Sylvanas and the Dark Rangers of Warcraft 3 didn't have undead beast pets. That wasn't a part of their Class identity at all.

And Hunter is still missing... ALL the gameplay of a Dark Ranger.