If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Diaphin]

Again, Dark Ranger abilities have been historically given to Hunter and Priest classes. With Sylvanas probably dead after 9.1, there is no longer a source for a banshee-based Dark Ranger in WoW, so it stands to reason that they will continue to hand Dark Ranger abilities to those two classes.

As to why this is good for the Tinker and Draconic classes; Simple, more HotS abilities in WoW means that Blizzard continues to pull from that source for ability and class concepts.

Hunters don't have them anymore though. And Sylvanas destiny in 9.1 (and you thinking Blizz will kill her off makes me laugh, but yeah, thats typically you), doesn't necessarily change anything. Blizz set the precedence that the starting experience of a new class doesn't necessarily have to take place during the events of the current expansion, as we saw with Demon Hunters who have the majority of their starting zone take place during the events of the Burning Crusade, with a time skip taking place mid-scenario. Especially since Blizz made the creative decission to hide Sylvanas true goals and motives for the storyline, a potential Dark Ranger class makes more sense after Shadowlands, as otherwise the starting experience could reveal too much about her intentions, if she acts as the class leader during it. It is perfectly possible that Dark Rangers as a class would start their quests pre-Shadowland shortly after the events of the final loyalist quest and show what the loyalist Dark Rangers did either on Azeroth or the Shadowlands during the timeframe of Shadowlands, especially since we know that the timelines work differently between the Shadowlands and Azeroth.

[Traveler Voltin]

ignoring the ability issues.

there is no one left to train new dark rangers.

[Triceron]

ignoring the ability issues.

there is no one left to train new dark rangers.

DK and DH both have starting zones set in the past, where we see them get fully trained and prepped for a war ahead of them. Both have timeskips implied with the end of their quests.

Anything learned or available in training is then applied retroactively to NPCs. Characters like Altruis end up getting horns visuals in Legion when they originally did not, with little-to-no explanation.

[Teriz]

tinker in a mech suit would never work because of PVP

Why wouldn't a mech suit work because of PvP?

Also the face that engineers are in the game take away from the Tinker.

Professions =/= Classes.

- - - Updated - - -

DK and DH both have starting zones set in the past, where we see them get fully trained and prepped for a war ahead of them. Both have timeskips implied with the end of their quests.

Anything learned or available in training is then applied retroactively to NPCs. Characters like Altruis end up getting horns visuals in Legion when they originally did not, with little-to-no explanation.

Except both DHs and DKs had multiple examples of DHs and DKs with Lich King and Illidan abilities BEFORE the expansions in which their classes debuted.

We have yet to see a Dark Ranger using Banshee abilities beyond Sylvanas.

- - - Updated - - -

Black Arrow isn't in the Hunter kit any more. Hunter has since disconnected from that association completely, and even with Covenants they didn't get more Necromantic/Banshee variations of Dark Ranger abilities; they got Death Chakram instead.

In this expansion. What's to stop Blizzard from bringing the ability back in a future expansion?

Mind Control is also a Shadow Priest ability, not the Dark Ranger ability. Dark Rangers had Charm, which worked differently on units. It permanently granted control of a unit and did not work on heroes, while Mind Control works on heroes (other player characters) but only temporarily. Very different spells.

I was talking more along the lines of Possession in HotS, which is very similar to the Priest Mind Control ability.

Which means they could just as easily use it for Covenants or existing classes, the exact same way you explained to me how none of Sylvanas' abilities would make it into a new class concept. You've inferred that these HotS abilities would go straight into existing classes.

Undermine with multiple Trade Prince Cartels or a Mechagon 2.0 would work just as well.

Well we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[Triceron]

In this expansion. What's to stop Blizzard from bringing the ability back in a future expansion?

What's to stop Blizzard from bringing Dark Rangers back in a future expansion? Every Hero class has an origin set in the past with the starting level acting as a training montage.

I was talking more along the lines of Possession in HotS, which is very similar to the Priest Mind Control ability.

Possession is a talent with 3 charges that takes permanent control of minions, which is exactly how Charm worked in WC3.

Mind Control heroic is probably what you're talking about, but functionally you shoot an arrow skillshot that forces the enemy to walk towards you. It used to be the same channeled mind control that Shadow Priests had, but since her update they made this ability more fitting to Rangers who use Dark magic.

Except both DHs and DKs had multiple examples of DHs and DKs with Lich King and Illidan abilities BEFORE the expansions in which their classes debuted.

We have yet to see a Dark Ranger using Banshee abilities beyond Sylvanas.

We had existing classes like Warlocks and Rogues have DK and DH abilities before the expansions in which their classes debuted too.

Historically, an existing class having another classes' abilities had zero impact on them being added as a new class. On top of this, we're seeing those abilities actually get removed years ahead of time, as if they were intentionally making room for the possibility of a Dark Ranger.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[TheRevenantHero]

What's to stop Blizzard from bringing Dark Rangers back in a future expansion? Every Hero class has an origin set in the past with the starting level acting as a training montage.



Possession is a talent with 3 charges that takes permanent control of minions, which is exactly how Charm worked in WC3.

Mind Control heroic is probably what you're talking about, but functionally you shoot an arrow skillshot that forces the enemy to walk towards you. It used to be the same channeled mind control that Shadow Priests had, but since her update they made this ability more fitting to Rangers who use Dark magic.



We had existing classes like Warlocks and Rogues have DK and DH abilities before the expansions in which their classes debuted too.

Historically, an existing class having another classes' abilities had zero impact on them being added as a new class.

I hate to agree with Teriz but he's right. Sylvanas is the ONLY dark ranger that is a banshee. All other dark rangers are just undead quel'dorei hunters. They don't have a single banshee ability. Sylvanas is a unique case that no other character shares in any way.

[Triceron]

I hate to agree with Teriz but he's right. Sylvanas is the ONLY dark ranger that is a banshee. All other dark rangers are just undead quel'dorei hunters. They don't have a single banshee ability. Sylvanas is a unique case that no other character shares in any way.

Which is no different than any NPC prior to the inclusion of a new class.

We'd never seen any Demon Hunters with wings and horns other than Illidan. We'd never seen any Demon Hunter use eyebeams or Vengeance demon forms. We'd never seen any Death Knight dual wielding or using Frost magic and Runes prior to Wrath. We'd never seen any character or class use Kung Fu based Martial Arts prior to Pandaria, and that includes how Brewmaster was depicted in WC3.

WoW NPCs are just NPCs, and they're entirely limited in what they can or can't do.

[Teriz]

What's to stop Blizzard from bringing Dark Rangers back in a future expansion? Every Hero class has an origin set in the past with the starting level acting as a training montage.

For starters, they’re nothing more than an evil version of the Hunter class. I believe the concept is better served as a sub theme within Marksmanship, or as a replacement for Survival.

Possession is a talent with 3 charges that takes permanent control of minions, which is exactly how Charm worked in WC3.

Or how tame works in the Hunter class. Just limited to beasts.

We had existing classes like Warlocks and Rogues have DK and DH abilities before the expansions in which their classes debuted too.

Historically, an existing class having another classes' abilities had zero impact on them being added as a new class. On top of this, we're seeing those abilities actually get removed years ahead of time, as if they were intentionally making room for the possibility of a Dark Ranger.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Indeed.

- - - Updated - - -

Which is no different than any class prior to the inclusion of a new class.

We'd never seen any Demon Hunters with wings and horns other than Illidan. We'd never seen any Demon Hunter use eyebeams or Vengeance demon forms. We'd never seen any Death Knight dual wielding or using Frost magic and Runes prior to Wrath. We'd never seen any character or class use Kung Fu based Martial Arts prior to Pandaria, and that includes how Brewmaster was depicted in WC3.

WoW NPCs are just NPCs, and they're entirely limited in what they can or can't do.

You’re talking about cosmetics. We had Demon Hunters trained by Illidan who could do metamorphosis. We had DKs raised by the Lich King who had necromantic powers. We had Monks doing Kung Fu-inspired moved long before monks in MoP.

To date Sylvanas is the ONLY Dark Ranger with banshee abilities, and there’s been a lot of Dark Rangers.

[Triceron]

You’re talking about cosmetics. We had Demon Hunters trained by Illidan who could do metamorphosis. We had DKs raised by the Lich King who had necromantic powers. We had Monks doing Kung Fu-inspired moved long before monks in MoP.

To date Sylvanas is the ONLY Dark Ranger with banshee abilities, and there’s been a lot of Dark Rangers.

WC3 already has Dark Rangers with Charm, and their Hero characters are offiically canonized in WoW such as Dark Ranger Anya.

Also, Death Knight using Frost magic is not cosmetic. It's something we've only seen the Lich King be capable of, which made its way into all Death Knight lore and game mechanics. No DK NPC ever showed an aptitude towards Frost magic, and even the Four Horsemen used all types of different magical abilities like Fire or Holy but not Frost.

Or how tame works in the Hunter class. Just limited to beasts.

Yes, because Hunters are themed around hunting and taming beasts, not using Necromancy and shadow magic. Wailing Arrow and Withering Shot have nothing to do with Marksmanship or Survival Hunter themes.

[Teriz]

WC3 already has Dark Rangers with Charm, and their Hero characters are offiically canonized in WoW such as Dark Ranger Anya.

How is Charm anything more than an evil version of Tame?

Also what Banshee abilities does Anya possess?

Also, Death Knight using Frost magic is not cosmetic. It's something we've only seen the Lich King be capable of, which made its way into all Death Knight lore and game mechanics. No DK NPC ever showed an aptitude towards Frost magic, and even the Four Horsemen used all types of different magical abilities like Fire or Holy but not Frost.

Okay, but we saw DK NPCs use a host of Necromantic abilities outside of Frost. The point is that we don't see Dark Rangers using Banshee abilities at all, which makes them nothing more than Shadowy Hunters. To make matters worse, Hunters have a long history in WoW using Shadow magic.

Yes, because Hunters are themed around hunting and taming beasts, not using Necromancy and shadow magic. Wailing Arrow and Withering Shot have nothing to do with Marksmanship or Survival Hunter themes.

Why are we ignoring the history of the Hunter class? Just because Hunters don't have Black Arrow now doesn't mean they wont have it in the future.

[Triceron]

Okay, but we saw DK NPCs use a host of Necromantic abilities outside of Frost.

We saw them use a host of non-Necromantic abilities like dropping meteors and using holy magic. I don't think NPCs are a solid way to establish what Player Classes can or can not do.

The point is that we don't see Dark Rangers using Banshee abilities at all, which makes them nothing more than Shadowy Hunters. To make matters worse, Hunters have a long history in WoW using Shadow magic.

And Hunters have zero shadow magic abilities now.

Dark Ranger Anya and Velonara's Black Arrow curses enemies, which are Banshee abilities. This is the same ability that Sylvanas had as Warchief, and it was an actual Curse type ability. This is a different tooltip from Hunter's Black Arrow, which is just 'fire a black arrow' with no actual spellcasting or curse involved, just a regular magic-type debuff.

Why are we ignoring the history of the Hunter class? Just because Hunters don't have Black Arrow now doesn't mean they wont have it in the future.

Hunters used to use Mana too, but I'm not holding my breath that they will get it back in the future either.

We've learned that they're detaching certain themes and mechanics from the Hunter class to define their core identity. It's counter-intuitive to expect Black Arrow to be brought back in the future. We have a Necromantic expansion where every class has Necromantic ability options, and Black Arrow is nowhere to be found.

I mean this isn't even a matter of wait and see; we've literally waited and seen the results.

[TheRevenantHero]

Which is no different than any NPC prior to the inclusion of a new class.

We'd never seen any Demon Hunters with wings and horns other than Illidan. We'd never seen any Demon Hunter use eyebeams or Vengeance demon forms. We'd never seen any Death Knight dual wielding or using Frost magic and Runes prior to Wrath. We'd never seen any character or class use Kung Fu based Martial Arts prior to Pandaria, and that includes how Brewmaster was depicted in WC3.

WoW NPCs are just NPCs, and they're entirely limited in what they can or can't do.

There were felsworn with similar mutations but yes, no demon hunters. But we did know the fel can cause those mutations. When it comes to Sylvanas, she is the ONLY banshee inhabiting a body. Her case is unique and really should not be used as an example for dark rangers at all. Because every other dark ranger is, as I said, just undead quel'dorei hunters and nothing more.

[Triceron]

There were felsworn with similar mutations but yes, no demon hunters. But we did know the fel can cause those mutations. When it comes to Sylvanas, she is the ONLY banshee inhabiting a body. Her case is unique and really should not be used as an example for dark rangers at all. Because every other dark ranger is, as I said, just undead quel'dorei hunters and nothing more.

I pointed out above.

Dark Ranger Anya and Velonara's Black Arrow curses enemies. This is the same ability that Sylvanas had as Warchief, and it was an actual Curse type ability. Banshees are known for using Curses, established since Warcraft 3 and carried over into WoW.

The Hunter's Black Arrow involves no actual spellcasting or curse involved, it is treated as an enchanted arrow that applies a just a magic-type debuff. There is no curse or Banshee ability involved.

On top of all this, Dark Rangers tend to have unique abilities not found on Hunters, such as use of Shadowburn Shot, Smoke Bombs and even Wailing Arrow.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=205421/wailing-arrow

"A deafening banshee's wail erupts from the arrow's impact, inflicting Shadow damage and silencing nearby enemies."
Used By:
Dark Ranger Alina
Dark Ranger Clea
Forsaken Dark Ranger


As for Sylvanas' situation... we don't actually know whether she is the only Banshee inhibiting a body, and whether or not that applies to other Dark Rangers. It's left ambiguous, just like asking whether any Demon Hunter can actually change into a Demon Form like Illidan and not just the shadow Illidan form which we know any Warlock can do. There was no other Demon Hunter with visible Horns or Wings, or any one that would use a unique form that looks like Illidan. Every time we see any NPC it was always using the same Shadow Illidan model that Warlocks used.

It's a correlation argument. We see Illidan as the only one who can take up a non-shadow demon form, so we assumed no other Demon Hunter could look the same way. Yet the truth is it's always been ambiguous and ill-explained, until retroactively confirmed by the addition of an actual Demon Hunter class.

The Dark Ranger NPCs containing 'Banshee spirits' within them might not be addressed unless we actually have a playable Dark Ranger class. That's the reality of the situation, and we can't just bank on Dark Rangers being 'different from Sylvanas' when we don't actually know the true origin of a Dark Ranger and their ties to Sylvanas. Look how Delaryn Summermoon was completely against Sylvanas in life, but became her servant in death. There are still things left unexplained, and Blizzard hasn't indicated they are willing or ready to explain any of those relationships right now.

[TheRevenantHero]

I pointed out above.

Dark Ranger Anya and Velonara's Black Arrow curses enemies. This is the same ability that Sylvanas had as Warchief, and it was an actual Curse type ability. Banshees are known for using Curses, established since Warcraft 3 and carried over into WoW.

The Hunter's Black Arrow involves no actual spellcasting or curse involved, it is treated as an enchanted arrow that applies a just a magic-type debuff. There is no curse or Banshee ability involved.

On top of all this, Dark Rangers tend to have unique abilities not found on Hunters, such as use of Shadowburn Shot, Smoke Bombs and even Wailing Arrow.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=205421/wailing-arrow

"A deafening banshee's wail erupts from the arrow's impact, inflicting Shadow damage and silencing nearby enemies."
Used By:
Dark Ranger Alina
Dark Ranger Clea
Forsaken Dark Ranger


As for Sylvanas' situation... we don't actually know whether she is the only Banshee inhibiting a body, and whether or not that applies to other Dark Rangers. It's left ambiguous, just like asking whether any Demon Hunter can actually change into a Demon Form like Illidan and not just the shadow Illidan form which we know any Warlock can do. There was no other Demon Hunter with visible Horns or Wings, or any one that would use a unique form that looks like Illidan. Every time we see any NPC it was always using the same Shadow Illidan model that Warlocks used.

It's a correlation argument. We see Illidan as the only one who can take up a non-shadow demon form, so we assumed no other Demon Hunter could look the same way. Yet the truth is it's always been ambiguous and ill-explained, until retroactively confirmed by the addition of an actual Demon Hunter class.

The Dark Ranger NPCs containing 'Banshee spirits' within them might not be addressed unless we actually have a playable Dark Ranger class. That's the reality of the situation, and we can't just bank on Dark Rangers being 'different from Sylvanas' when we don't actually know the true origin of a Dark Ranger and their ties to Sylvanas. Look how Delaryn Summermoon was completely against Sylvanas in life, but became her servant in death. There are still things left unexplained, and Blizzard hasn't indicated they are willing or ready to explain any of those relationships right now.

That is nothing but an example of Blizzard's laziness and isn't canon. Canonically, Sylvanas is the ONLY Banshee to inhabit a body. All the dark rangers are just undead quel'dorei hunters and nothing else. You're literally taking offhand flavor text as gospel. And yes we absolutely do know she is the only banshee to inhabit a body. There has never been another character that did the same thing. She is a unique case.

Dark Rangers containing banshee spirits won't be addressed because they simply don't exist. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Banshee
Every single banshee NPC is a spirit except sylvanas.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_ranger
All dark rangers are simply undead quel'dorei and nothing more. Things have been explained, you just refuse to acknowledge it in favor of pushing for an unneeded dark ranger class. Delaryn is Sylvanas' servant because her free will was manipulated in her raising. It's really just that simple. You can try and say dark rangers can happen all day long but you'll be wrong every time. They are simply undead elven hunters. Nothing more.

[Imperator4321]

As for Sylvanas' situation... we don't actually know whether she is the only Banshee inhibiting a body, and whether or not that applies to other Dark Rangers. It's left ambiguous, just like asking whether any Demon Hunter can actually change into a Demon Form like Illidan and not just the shadow Illidan form which we know any Warlock can do. There was no other Demon Hunter with visible Horns or Wings, or any one that would use a unique form that looks like Illidan. Every time we see any NPC it was always using the same Shadow Illidan model that Warlocks used.

It's a correlation argument. We see Illidan as the only one who can take up a non-shadow demon form, so we assumed no other Demon Hunter could look the same way. Yet the truth is it's always been ambiguous and ill-explained, until retroactively confirmed by the addition of an actual Demon Hunter class.

The Dark Ranger NPCs containing 'Banshee spirits' within them might not be addressed unless we actually have a playable Dark Ranger class. That's the reality of the situation, and we can't just bank on Dark Rangers being 'different from Sylvanas' when we don't actually know the true origin of a Dark Ranger and their ties to Sylvanas. Look how Delaryn Summermoon was completely against Sylvanas in life, but became her servant in death. There are still things left unexplained, and Blizzard hasn't indicated they are willing or ready to explain any of those relationships right now.

Theres also ignoring that Blizzard is perfectly fine with changing or expanding lore to accomodate expanding what classes can do, saying a Dark Rangers class can't be banshee or have banshee like powers because only Sylvanas is defined as actually having been a banshee inhabiting a mortal body is like saying Death Knights could only be races that also access have the paladin class because WC3 defined Death Knights as being fallen paladins in their description (and their abilities are evil versions of the paladin units), pretty much every Death Knight of note prior to WoLK is a former paladin (with the exception of baron rivendare), even the non-canon RPG had one of the prerequestites for the Death Knight prestige class be having prior levels in the paladin class (except in "rare circumstances")

Blizzard was perfectly fine with expanding what a Death Knight was beyond their initial fallen-paladin archetype into something that allowed for a wider range of abilities and races, theres no reason they couldn't also do the same for Dark Rangers such as given them Banshee or other abilities akin to what Sylvanas does for the sake of similar expanding, especially since the draw of a Dark Ranger class would be that it's the "Sylvanas class" same way Demon Hunter is the "Illidan class" or Death Knight the "Arthas class" it would be weird for the class not to take heavily from what Sylvanas has been seen doing even if it's something the "class" had never been seen doing before (like blood and frost powers DK's got).

[Triceron]

That is nothing but an example of Blizzard's laziness and isn't canon. Canonically, Sylvanas is the ONLY Banshee to inhabit a body. All the dark rangers are just undead quel'dorei hunters and nothing else. You're literally taking offhand flavor text as gospel. And yes we absolutely do know she is the only banshee to inhabit a body. There has never been another character that did the same thing. She is a unique case.

She's been only shown to use those abilities in BFA, at a time when we know now that she's been empowered by the Maw and has connections to the Jailer. We don't know exactly if those particular Banshee abilities you're talking about, the flight and the crazy death powers we saw in BFA intro, are just part of the Dark Ranger, are unique to Sylvanas because she is a Dark Ranger, or due to her being empowered by Maw/Jailer anima powers.

Dark Rangers containing banshee spirits won't be addressed because they simply don't exist. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Banshee
Every single banshee NPC is a spirit except sylvanas.

Wowpedia's lists aren't canon either.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_ranger
All dark rangers are simply undead quel'dorei and nothing more. Things have been explained, you just refuse to acknowledge it in favor of pushing for an unneeded dark ranger class. Delaryn is Sylvanas' servant because her free will was manipulated in her raising. It's really just that simple. You can try and say dark rangers can happen all day long but you'll be wrong every time.

Again, if you're saying Blizzard's own 'laziness' isn't canon, you can't then point at WoWpedia as your source of canon when most of that text mixes in non-canonical sources like the RPG books.

They are simply undead elven hunters. Nothing more.

Blizzard's laziness and isn't canon. I mean, you're drinking your own kool-aid here.

How can you decide that them using Wailing Arrow is not canon, but them being 'simply undead elven hunters. Nothing more' is canon? Did you forget that Nathanos Blightcaller was not an Elf and was officially a Dark Ranger?

[TheRevenantHero]

She's been only shown to use those abilities in BFA, at a time when we know now that she's been empowered by the Maw and has connections to the Jailer. We don't know exactly if those particular Banshee abilities you're talking about, the flight and the crazy death powers we saw in BFA intro, are just part of the Dark Ranger, are unique to Sylvanas because she is a Dark Ranger, or due to her being empowered by Maw/Jailer anima powers.



Wowpedia's lists aren't canon either.




Again, if you're saying Blizzard's own 'laziness' isn't canon, you can't then point at WoWpedia as your source of canon when most of that text mixes in non-canonical sources like the RPG books.

Are you kidding me right now? She has definitely used unique Banshee abilities before BfA, they just weren't as potent. Are you really that adverse to facts that you'll just straight up disregard what's established just to continue to defend a class that will never happen?

That wowpedia article lists every single Banshee NPC that's been in the game. Sylvanas is the ONLY one that managed to not only gain her body back but merge her powers with that body. There is absolutely no other examples of that happening in all of Warcraft lore.

You're taking flavor text as canon and disregarding the ACTUAL canon. You're basically saying "I know the lore says this but because a word was used in one spell description, that somehow disproves all the established lore." Just stop.

[Triceron]

Are you kidding me right now? She has definitely used unique Banshee abilities before BfA, they just weren't as potent. Are you really that adverse to facts that you'll just straight up disregard what's established just to continue to defend a class that will never happen?

So exactly what Banshee abilities are you talking about that she used prior to BFA cinematic Banshee form? Be clear so we can discuss, otherwise I'm not sure what you're actually talking about.

That wowpedia article lists every single Banshee NPC that's been in the game. Sylvanas is the ONLY one that managed to not only gain her body back but merge her powers with that body. There is absolutely no other examples of that happening in all of Warcraft lore.

You're taking flavor text as canon and disregarding the ACTUAL canon. You're basically saying "I know the lore says this but because a word was used in one spell description, that somehow disproves all the established lore." Just stop.

Despite not actually being Banshees, Blizzard has the power to allow the existing Dark Rangers to use Banshee powers. I'm not quite entirely sure why you think Dark Rangers 'simply being undead elf hunters' actually means anything significant.

I mean, in what right mind would they have allowed Warlocks to have Metamorphosis, a power that was unique to Demon Hunters going through a ritual sacrifice of their own body parts to obtain? Blizzard just gave it to the Warlocks and gave a half-assed 'We observed Illidan' and let them have it at no cost to your character. Blizzard can do whatever they want with their canon.

Priests aren't banshees either and they can use Mind Control. It's not an ability unique to Banshees. The only thing so far that seems unique to Sylvanas is the ability to use a Banshee form and fly around, and Dark Rangers don't need to be able to do that for us to have a Dark Ranger class.

[TheRevenantHero]

So exactly what Banshee abilities are you talking about that she used prior to BFA cinematic Banshee form? Be clear so we can discuss, otherwise I'm not sure what you're actually talking about.



You're taking flavor text as canon and disregarding the ACTUAL canon. You're basically saying "I know the lore says this but because a word was used in one spell description, that somehow disproves all the established lore." Just stop.

Isn't your whole basis of what Dark Rangers can and can't do based on your observation of whether they use Banshee abilities or not?

That a Paladin has not canonically used Necromancy does not mean they will not or can not use Necromancy. We have Covenants now showing that it's possible for a Paladin to use Unholy magic with no repercussions. Just because they were never shown to use something doesn't mean it's canonically impossible.

As I've said, it's purely ambiguous. We can neither confirm or deny whether Dark Rangers can actually use Banshee abilities. Blizzard hasn't actually explained the connection.

Do Dark Rangers have Banshee Form? No, they do not. Can Dark Rangers use Banshee abilities? We have not seen them use any direct Bansee abilities, although they do have various Curse and Banshee-like abilities.

I wouldn't say they are 'just undead elf Hunters' since no Hunter actually uses Curses or Banshee-like abilities.[/QUOTE]

Dark rangers don't have banshee powers. Period. They are nothing more than undead elf hunters. There is nothing ambiguous about it. No other dark ranger can turn incorporeal and fly. No other dark ranger can pass through enemies and kill them in the process. ONLY Sylvanas can do that because she is the ONLY banshee that managed to merge with a physical body.

All of the dark ranger NPCs in WoW just have hunter abilities. Wailing Arrow is literally just black arrow with different flavor text. All the dark ranger NPCs I've looked at so far don't have any ability to curse enemies in WoW.

They have no banshee abilities. They are simply undead elf hunters and the NPCs in WoW reflect this.

[Triceron]

Dark rangers don't have banshee powers. Period. They are nothing more than undead elf hunters. There is nothing ambiguous about it. No other dark ranger can turn incorporeal and fly. No other dark ranger can pass through enemies and kill them in the process. ONLY Sylvanas can do that because she is the ONLY banshee that managed to merge with a physical body.

All of the dark ranger NPCs in WoW just have hunter abilities. Wailing Arrow is literally just black arrow with different flavor text. All the dark ranger NPCs I've looked at so far don't have any ability to curse enemies in WoW.

They have no banshee abilities. They are simply undead elf hunters and the NPCs in WoW reflect this.

I think I'm starting to understand what you're saying.

When I said Dark Rangers use Banshee abilities, I was specific about them using Curses and Wailing Arrow that has Banshee-like screaming effects.

You are thinking that I'm saying Dark Rangers share Sylvanas' ability to use Banshee form and turn into a Banshee and fly around and kill people by passing through them. You are mistaken, because I *never* said they can do that or use those abilities.

I don't think a Dark Ranger class needs any of Sylvanas' unique Banshee properties, like flying through people and killing them or flying. You have misunderstood the context of my statements. I am not saying Dark Rangers would ever do this.

I am specifically talking about using Curses and Banshee-like spell effects like Haunting Wave or Wailing Arrow; abilities we've seen in Heroes of the Storm that are making their way into WoW. I am also open to Blizzard allowing them to do more just like how Death Knights were able to use Arthas' unique abilities over time like summoning Sindragosa or using Apocalypse; things that normally Arthas was only known to do. I am not extending this to Dark Rangers canonically all turning into Banshees and flying around; mostly to other abilities we are seeing in the raid patch notes like Death Fog or Banshee's Mark. And if you don't consider abilities like this to be canon, then it doesn't matter if Dark Ranger NPCs/Player Class gets these abilities anyways, right?

Does this make sense?