If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Triceron]

Once again, it's an "ability" but in reality it's just a glorified toy. As for your other passives you mentioned, they're not at all the same. Because talents and class abilities that provide those buffs were designed to synergize with the mechanics of your class. The warglaives were just stat sticks that had a proc similar to trinkets. I really don't think they were designed with synergy in mind. And Wailing Arrow is an active skill with a cooldown. It's not just some simple passive thing. You actively have to click it to use it. That's why it's different.
.

Mechanics may be different, but consider by the next expansion this weapon will be fairly worthless.

Look at the Firecat Feral staff drop off Fandral Staghelm in Firelands. It changes your active Catform, but the staff itself is easily replaced by the time the final tier raid came along, and wasn't even worth using by the time MoP came around. MoP greens had higher ilvl, making rhe staff useless.

The Wailing Arrow and Withering fire mechanics are great, but they will be temporary and we aren't any closer to an actual playable Dark Ranger in the long run.

This is the problem with borrowed power. We're just borrowing the Dark Ranger for a tier.

[Aleksej89]

technology/science has no class representation so far.
so my vote is for a tinker/alchemist - plenty of inspiration from war3, various factions in wow, dota/LOL/HOTS etc etc.

considering legion, ethereals, naaru/draenei, goblins, gnomes and many others have very sci-fi tech its strange player class themes are limited to whacking a hammer or tossing a spell.

[Syegfryed]

Maybe mages just make better blademasters than warriors do?

Mages:
Invisibility (Wind Walk)? Check
Mirror Image? Check
Cloth armor/unarmored? Check
Can use swords? Check

Warriors:
Bladestorm? Check
Can use swords? Check

That's 4 to 2 in favor of mages. I guess we can confidently say that blademasters are mages from now on.

fore sure, now since people rly want play the sneaky trickster with light armor they can play mages

You know what, I'm done. Continue this conversation with others if you want but I refuse to keep slamming my head against the wall hoping for an actual conversation and debate.

You are literally "slamming your head" against the Truth, that a Blademaster played and is, something different than what you assumed

Please don't try to be cute. I never agreed with you. And as long as you keep stating your personal opinion as objective fact, I never will. The mirror image concept goes against the warrior concept because it's an ability that avoids damage, not mitigate it.

Are you for real? the ebst way to mitigate damage is not taking damage, thats why people say to you get out of the fire.

Except it wouldn't be "expanding", but actually "completely reworking it". It would be akin to what happened to the hunter's survival spec in Legion in terms of scope

.

it would not, clearly would not, since is something minor, two ilusions for gigles anda sprint like dash that can have a few seconds of invisibility, but not necessary

The Arms spec is not about mobility.

ah yes, not at all:

A battle-hardened master of two-handed weapons, using mobility and overpowering attacks to strike <his/her> opponents down.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Warrior#Arms

The warrior class does not represent the blademaster concept

It indeed does, because the blademaster concept is about being a legendary warrior, that deliver powerful strikes, with precisions and agility, killing enemies, they are generals among armies, Leaders in their own groups, they are the main force in the battlefield, they are not "sneaky tricksters"

It's no one's point. We are pointing at those two abilities because they represent the gameplay one would expect out of a class that can go stealth and confuse/trick enemies.

I already pointed, many times, with examples that those two abilities don't represent their gameplay at all, with a video of the ebst orc player in the world and he does not play blademaster like asneaky tricster, because is not their main thing, wind walk is a sprint ability for mobility, the main focus on the blademaster is killing, with powerful striks

This is also represented in their lore and history who revolves around the mastery of the blade and their martial proweness, not in deceptive or sneaky skills, only a blind man canot see it, and only a disonehst one keep saying those two skills are their "main thing"

Description of Mirror Images in the Warcraft 3 page:

Like i said, watch the damn video, you want to compare something on a wiki to one of the ebst orc players in the world, serious people don't even lv mirror image

This like i said, only further proove my point that people saying those nonsenses didn't play the RTS neither warriors in wow at all

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Also, something funny i find while reading the wiki a preview from the warrior class made by blizzard itself, back in legion showing off different warriors, Arms spec is represented by different styles, armored human warrior and blademaster orc warrior, even using burning blade toy, pretty cool



https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...series-warrior

[username993720]

The main concept of the demon hunter was not turning into "that particular demon form", but "turning into a demon", which is fully represented in WoW.

Yes, of course it was. That of a winged demon, with horns and hooves. Similar to a Dreadlord:






Nowhere was the Vengeance demon form portrayed.

Not really. Both are demon hunters, just they play different because they're different iterations of the concept.

Exactly. You got it, finally.

No, they don't. Again, when they decide what class they'll make, they study a list of possibilities, before starting to design them into an actual class in the game. Creating ten or five or three playable classes and then deciding which one to add to the expansion and which ones to discard is an asinine process at best. They first decide which one to pursue and then start building it up.

Yes, they do. Ask Triceron. He worked for a gaming company.

You are correct about the process.
And why do non-WC3 Hero units lose every time?

That is irrelevant, though, as it does nothing to counter the argument that we don't need to use Warcraft 3 units to make a playable concept valid in WoW.

Anything is valid. But, What makes it into the game, in the end of the day, are WC3 Hero units-based classes.

It's amusing how you accuse me of "denying reality" since I never said that the runemaster lost to the death knight in the end. But you are denying reality by insisting we need a Warcraft 3 unit to base a WoW class on, despite the fact that the runemaster concept, who never had any unit in Warcraft 3, or hero in the lore of WC3 or WoW, was a concept that beat other concepts like tinker and demon hunters, who do have WC3 units and heroes in the lore. If WC3 was a requirement, the runemaster concept wouldn't even make it to the list. But it did.

It is backed up by a Blizzard statement.
List and implementation are two different things. We can have tons of ideas, here on the forums, yet only one will be implemented, whether we like it or not. Do the maths: if 3 expansions in a row, a WC3 Hero unit wins over the others, what does it mean?

Not really. It is arguable that the entire concept was based off external media, and the WC3 hero unit was used for flavor.

The other way around. The Pandaren Brewmaster served as the basis for the class, while the others served as supplements.

So you're asking to remove/ignore an important characteristic of the race as a whole?

No, i don't. But, how else would they make them playable?
And, how are you comfortable with the change to undead characters, yet not for vampire ones?

They don't "exactly" that, like you said yourself no manaburn, and something to "represent that?" they can give tow arrior without creating a new class

Mana Rift PvP Talent
Tank Specs – Row 1 PvP Talent
50 Fury 8 yd range
Instant cast 10 sec cooldown
Requires Demon Hunter (Havoc)
Requires level 20
You manifest a 6 yard wide mana rift under the feet of the target.

After 2.5 sec, it erupts dealing up to 8% of each enemy's maximum health in Chaos damage and destroys 8% of each enemy's total mana if present.

Mana Burn
Sends a bolt of negative energy that burns a target enemy unit's mana. Burned mana combusts, dealing damage to the target equal to the amount of mana burned.

Just because you mad eup that they are "sneak and trick the enemy" don't mean they are, like i said, stop making up a caricature of what a blademaster is

No one made that up. It is in their lore and abilities. You're just choosing to ignore it to further your own agenda. I get that you like the current playstyle you made for yourself, and the transmog you built for your character, and you don't want us to burst your bubble. But, other people want the full Blademaster skill set, not just the one you made for yourself.

2/4 since they do have the critic chances, and good thing they have the rest, like already mentioned.

Every other class has a crit ability. Does it light your weapon on fire, though?

Like i said, that is the role point of the problem, you already made that up, you already have a caricature idea of what the blademaster is and do and get so confused when you face reality.

You just described your entire approach to the concept.

that is just bullshit, mages got mirror iamge and they are fine, isn't like a huge deal

Because it fits them. Ever heard of the Wizard of D3? it had that ability. No Warrior is depicted using that in outside sources.

Wind walk can be just a sprint like ability that may or may not turn invisible for a short time

You're belittling the ability to a mere sprint. It does turn your invisible/stealthed. Stop adjusting things to fit your vision of the class.

the fact is that the playable blademaster lack his rts skills

And some HotS skills.

your argument is based on the false premise that a blademaster is only a blademaster with two skills.

That is, actually, your argument:
"Blademaster is a Blademaster with only Bladestorm and, maybe, crit".

What is a dark ranger? if dark ranger is the undead rangers who use necrotic and dark magic, then they are not playable

That's why people here suggest to add 1-2 abilities to the Hunter and be done with it. Just like you do. Don't you recognize the similarities?
"Oh, the Dark Ranger is just a hunter with some shadowy skills"
"Oh, the Blademaster is just a Warrior with some deception and guile".
Now, do you see the absurdness?

I'm just going to say that I feel vindicated in saying dark rangers are literally just hunters and even Blizzard agrees by giving hunters access to Wailing Arrow through the bow that drops from Sylvanas in the next raid.

How are you being vindicated, when it is the Dark Ranger fans that are being dismissed?

It's funny how you dismiss them as, merely, Hunters while, at the same time, you advocate that Necromancers are not part of the Unholy Death Knight.

Anyway, that is like saying Blizzard viewed the Warlock as a Demon Hunter because it had some abilities. Implementation of certain abilities is a way to appease the community for the meantime. Nothing less, nothing more.

Uhhhhhh what? I can't find anything saying that Blademasters engage in stealth and trickery. Can I get a link?

"Though blademasters are masters of stealth and guile, they value personal honor above all else."
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos manual, pg. 84

missing abilities is a thing that can be fixed without the need of a new class

They can do it with every class. What's stopping them from applying it to every concept and ceasing to add new classes? Because that seems to be your solution to everything.

it sure it is, the dash ability is literally a sprint into the enemy and the arms spec is about mobility

I have to agree with you on that. The Diablo 3 Barbarian had an ability called "Sprint". Though, it doesn't turn them invisible or stealthed.

"if the warrior class does not have those two skills, warrior class is no blademaster" is literally the point of everyone else, and already showed that is wrong.

An NPC with no Blademaster abilities is still a Blademaster. Using them as examples is, hardly, an argument.

Because is a flat out lie in an attempt to say they are something they aren't.

They think it because in the middle of the combat, he cast some images, he is a "trickster", despite mages doing that and not being "tricksters", besids being easy to target the ilusions, and the wind walk, who is more of a sprint ability, giving bonus movement, they are saying he is a rogue like sneaky character

If anyone had the decency to read about then and their lore will know Blademaster are honorable warriors who go head on into the fray and their marital expertise/prowess with their blade is what define then, the skills are tools to do that, their concept is not to be a "sneaky trickster"

I even showed a video of a pro-player playing with Blademaster, and how they work, literally a warrior.

Let me just quote something i, already, showed to TheRevenantHero:
"Though blademasters are masters of stealth and guile, they value personal honor above all else."
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos manual, pg. 84

Lol no. It's not comparable AT ALL. Not even close. A haste proc and an attack power boost against one creature type isn't a new class ability. An item that pretty much amounts to a toy for all it's useful for is also not a class ability. Wailing Arrow, on the other hand, is giving hunters an entirely new spell. It's not a proc or anything. It can actively go on your hotbar. And since Wailing Arrow was one of your big reasons for saying dark ranger should be a class, it now solidifies that dark rangers are nothing more than undead hunters.

That's like saying Covenant abilities make you some kind of a Necromancer, or something like that. They provide you with some flavour, nothing else (in terms of class concepts).

as it stands, dark rangers are mechanically no different from hunters at all.

Good one.
Have you ever checked their abilities?

As for your other examples, part of why death knights had warlock abilities was because former orc warlocks shoved their souls into corpses. So first generation death knights actually knew how to wield fel magic. I don't remember what abilities NPC demon hunters had so I can't really accurately speak on that example. But regardless, even the lore around dark rangers just paints them as nothing but undead quel'dorei hunters. There just isn't enough there to justify an entire class especially now that hunters will have access to one of dark ranger's "signature spells".

Death Knight NPCs having a mix of Warrior and Warlock abilities was because Blizzard had to supplement them with existing abilities, since the class didn't exist at the time. Showing you how misrepresented a class is before its addition.

Well, when you put it like that, everything can be "just 1... 2... 3...". Demon Hunters are just elven Warlocks. Death Knights are just evil Paladins. Monks are just Pandaren-styled Warriors.

There is, actually, enough justification if you combine the Priestess of the Moon and Warden into it, like Blizzard has been hinting these past several expansions.

Having a complimentary spell is like an Artifact trait. It won't last long and it doesn't make you into something else.

it would not, clearly would not, since is something minor, two ilusions for gigles anda sprint like dash that can have a few seconds of invisibility, but not necessary

Trying to ridicule two integral abilities is nothing more than propaganda. You don't see us claiming Bladestorm is, merely, a sword swing and, therefore, is not important.

It indeed does, because the blademaster concept is about being a legendary warrior, that deliver powerful strikes, with precisions and agility, killing enemies, they are generals among armies, Leaders in their own groups, they are the main force in the battlefield, they are not "sneaky tricksters"

It's a samurai. No need for complications. And that includes deception and guile. You just like to minimize the importance of the other two aspects for your own benefit.

I already pointed, many times, with examples that those two abilities don't represent their gameplay at all, with a video of the ebst orc player in the world and he does not play blademaster like asneaky tricster, because is not their main thing, wind walk is a sprint ability for mobility, the main focus on the blademaster is killing, with powerful striks

Being called Masters of deception and guile, pretty much, emphasizes their importance. Not to mention that they constitute half of the unit's playstyle.

This is also represented in their lore and history who revolves around the mastery of the blade and their martial proweness, not in deceptive or sneaky skills, only a blind man canot see it, and only a disonehst one keep saying those two skills are their "main thing"

Again, you ignore the other aspects for your own purpose.

Also, something funny i find while reading the wiki a preview from the warrior class made by blizzard itself, back in legion showing off different warriors, Arms spec is represented by different styles, armored human warrior and blademaster orc warrior, even using burning blade toy, pretty cool

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...series-warrior

A picture? that's what you have? They used all sorts of race pictures for the different specialization that not always matched.

1. For once, they used a troll to represent a Restoration Shaman, when Witch Doctors/Shadow Hunters do not call upon neither water nor ancestral spirits. Moreover, they showed a Tauren with Spirit Wolves, an Orc Far Seer ability and aesthetic, for the Enhancement Shaman.


2. They showed a Forsaken as a representative of the Destruction Warlock, when they are, clearly, Affliction Warlocks.

3. They show a Tauren dual-wielding as a Fury Warrior, while the Tauren Chieftain wields a two-handed halberd. Moreover, they show a Dwarf using a shield and an axe when the Mountain King dual-wields a hammer and a mace.

[Syegfryed]

I mean that is just completely, utterly, demonstrably untrue. Samuro is literally listed as a 'melee assassin' on the official HOTS website, and 3/5 of his abilities are illusion/trickery.

I dont even know why you're arguing with everyone

https://heroesofthestorm.com/en-us/heroes/samuro/

Thats literally a fact. Argue with Blizzard if you think their website is wrong.

Hots is not a canon game, that is not a fact, lmao is just completely, utterly, demonstrably untrue.

[username993720]

Hots is not a canon game, that is not a fact, lmao is just completely, utterly, demonstrably untrue.

Yet, it plays exactly like the WC3 unit.
Mirror Image? ✓
Wind Walk? ✓
Critical Strike ✓
Bladestorm? ✓

[Syegfryed]

Trying to ridicule two integral abilities is nothing more than propaganda.

no one is "wanting to "ridicule" anything, i just said how they can implement the abilities in a way into the mmo without being bonkers or broken

Mirror image at max lv created 3 illusions in the RTS, in wow it can be just two, if we mimic the playstyle it have with mages it will not be gamebreaking, it will be actually quite amazing in bgs.

Wind walk does not need to be a stealth like-rogues, it can be redesigned to mimic their key factor in the RTS, as a sprint like ability to run away or come close, few seconds with a decent CD, it can even replace heroi leap if you grap as talent, it could be a stealth or just a blur like effect showing youa re going to fast and unable to be targeted


There is tons of way to deal witht he "lack of representation" creating a new class, for two skills, is just dumb.

You don't see us claiming Bladestorm is, merely, a sword swing and, therefore, is not important

In fact i do a lot, i see people claiming this ability is minor, despite being their ultimate, and the abilities who matter are the other two, despite one of then being almost useless..

It's a samurai. No need for complications. And that includes deception and guile. You just like to minimize the importance of the other two aspects for your own benefit.

Like i said, stealth and guile are not something so crucial in the blademaster lore and concept, if you read their lore is all about being what i said, they are legendary warriors, they leaders and generals, by example among Maghterion army the blademasters were the leaders, they were not sneaky rogues, they didn't face illidan and the rest with tricks and stealth, they faced then head on in a fight. Ajd if you played RTS you know mirror image is not even leveled in most fighs, showing little importance comapred to just critical strike and the movement boost from wind walk, and that is their key factor, mobility, not stealth

they literally still said "Though blademasters are masters of stealth and guile,they value personal honor above all else., no trickss, no sneaky rogues(guile means cunning, astuteness, warrior traits, not "deceptive tricksters)

Keep in mind that this is the only part when they said they are "master of stealth", is from the WC3 game manual, (which literally go against the wind walk description saiying you are too fast to the naked eye btw, that is no stealth) and nowhere else, which implies is just the mechanic for that game, since nothing about that is brought up, expanded, explained later, not in wow not in the expansion who show the burning blade clan, not in the books, nothing

And they literally can add those two skills to the warrior class, without a single problem.

A picture? that's what you have? They used all sorts of race pictures for the different specialization that not always matched.
1. For once, they used a troll to represent a Restoration Shaman, when Witch Doctors/Shadow Hunters do not call upon neither water nor ancestral spirits

....? what is supposed to mean? what is the relation of showing a troll shaman, with "witch doctors shadow hunters not calling upon water nor ancestral spirits"? are you assuming every single troll is either a shadow hunter or a witch doctor and can't be a normal shaman? or assuming he can't be from another spec?

And both witch doctors and shadow hunters can heal, argably a waster side of the element/spiritual magic, that we only discover is that in wow

. Moreover, they showed a Tauren with Spirit Wolves, an Orc Far Seer ability and aesthetic, for the Enhancement Shaman.

right, because far seers are shamans, and far seer is not their own class, like blademasters, and they are giving that fantasy to other shamans, not just orcs, just like all warriors can get avatar, despite being the mountain king ultimate, and bladestorm being a blademaster ultimate

2. They showed a Forsaken as a representative of the Destruction Warlock, when they are, clearly, Affliction Warlocks.

?? that is dumb, not all undeads are affliction warlocks, where is saying in the lore that undeads are just affliction?

3. They show a Tauren dual-wielding as a Fury Warrior, while the Tauren Chieftain wields a two-handed halberd. Moreover, they show a Dwarf using a shield and an axe when the Mountain King dual-wields a hammer and a mace.

i don't know how this change anything, or have any relation to blizzard showing a blademaster in the section they talk about arms warrior, further proving what i've being saying for the last days, but people ignoring or not accepting the fact, just because they do not have two skills, and worse, instead of realizing they can jsut add the skills, like they did with others, they think is easier or ebtter to make up an entire new class.

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The fact you think this is evidence shows how deluded you are. Blizzard is a fucking company who make up their own story and lore at any time they want, the fact Samuro the blademaster is tagged as an assassin proves that blizzard see him as such, stop using these ridiculous canon arguments to prove you right.

Stop being so delusional, heroes of the storm is not a canon game, they can put any on that and call a day

i don't know what the "assasssin" term means any shit to you, and how this is some sort of gamebreaking thing, since is just how they call the role of the heroes as tanks dps or healers

the fucking butcher is called a melee assassin


Gul'dan and Greymane are also assassins, a fucking warlock, Varian can be a assassin also, your argument is just chilldish, the funny thing is how you throw that out like you own the world cup or something.

Samuro is a fucking COPY from WC3 which IS CANON. So stick your canon argument up it.

He is not a "fucking copy" since he does have skills that does not exist in the Wc3, he is not canon you can play hots if you rly like him.

[Syegfryed]

Your entire argument relies upon trying to undermine others arguments and having absolutely 0 critical thought, balance or reason.

you just used a lame ass argument of course it will be "undermined" Assassin is merely a role that deals a lot of damage in hots, i don't even know what the hell you assumed with that, even warlocsk, mages and other warriorsare assassins.

The entire description for samuro on the website is literally canon,

because it is copyed from the canon game, hots in other hand, is not canon.

>

“Heroes of the Storm, much like Hearthstone in many ways, is not canon when it comes to the lore of World of Warcraft.”

https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blo...-3-interview/2

Where is your hard evidence that Blizzard dosent think blademasters use stealth or illusions, because we've provided dozens and all you've done is undermine and give opinions.

I never said that, stop making shit up to paint me as something else.

Also this ranged assasin shit you're using as an argument makes no sense,.

yes, just like you did, it make no sense. Is just a dumb way to divide heroes as tanks dps and healers

[username993720]

no one is "wanting to "ridicule" anything, i just said how they can implement the abilities in a way into the mmo without being bonkers or broken

Mirror image at max lv created 3 illusions in the RTS, in wow it can be just two, if we mimic the playstyle it have with mages it will not be gamebreaking, it will be actually quite amazing in bgs.

Wind walk does not need to be a stealth like-rogues, it can be redesigned to mimic their key factor in the RTS, as a sprint like ability to run away or come close, few seconds with a decent CD, it can even replace heroi leap if you grap as talent, it could be a stealth or just a blur like effect showing youa re going to fast and unable to be targeted


There is tons of way to deal witht he "lack of representation" creating a new class, for two skills, is just dumb.

They can do it with every other class concept. What you are saying is invalidating all potential future classes.

The number of images is not important. You can have a talent that adds more of them.

Mirror Image is neither a dodge mechanic nor a sprint one. It is an invisibility one.

Well, it isn't. Creating a Demon Hunter for 3 abilities was considered ridiculous. Yet, look at us now.

In fact i do a lot, i see people claiming this ability is minor, despite being their ultimate, and the abilities who matter are the other two, despite one of then being almost useless..

No. We are claiming all of them are important.

Like i said, stealth and guile are not something so crucial in the blademaster lore and concept, if you read their lore is all about being what i said, they are legendary warriors, they leaders and generals, by example among Maghterion army the blademasters were the leaders, they were not sneaky rogues, they didn't face illidan and the rest with tricks and stealth, they faced then head on in a fight. Ajd if you played RTS you know mirror image is not even leveled in most fighs, showing little importance comapred to just critical strike and the movement boost from wind walk, and that is their key factor, mobility, not stealth

they literally still said "Though blademasters are masters of stealth and guile,they value personal honor above all else., no trickss, no sneaky rogues(guile means cunning, astuteness, warrior traits, not "deceptive tricksters)

Keep in mind that this is the only part when they said they are "master of stealth", is from the WC3 game manual, (which literally go against the wind walk description saiying you are too fast to the naked eye btw, that is no stealth) and nowhere else, which implies is just the mechanic for that game, since nothing about that is brought up, expanded, explained later, not in wow not in the expansion who show the burning blade clan, not in the books, nothing

And they literally can add those two skills to the warrior class, without a single problem.

Once again, you interpret it as you wish. The matter of fact is that Wind Walk and Mirror Image are important to the Blademaster, as can be seen in the modern interpretation of it in HotS. Unlike the Demon Hunter's Mana Burn, the Dark Ranger's Black Arrow raising an undead minion, the Warden's Blink and Shadostrike throwing a poisoned dagger, the Priestess of the Moon's Searing Arrows, for example, being lost in transition.
How other players play it is of no concern to the concept. You can choose in game what abilities you like or not - does that mean that your playstyle is the only relevant one and that other abilities shouldn't exist?

Personal honor doesn't contradict these abilities. Orcs babble about being honorable, yet they are one of the most dishonorable race that exists. It's just part of the samurai description. Moreover, guile can mean deception and it is linked to the Mirror Image ability.
Other meanings: deceit, subterfuges, tricks, deception, duplicity, underhandedness, double-dealing, trickiness, fraud, ruses, skulduggery.

....? what is supposed to mean? what is the relation of showing a troll shaman, with "witch doctors shadow hunters not calling upon water nor ancestral spirits"? are you assuming every single troll is either a shadow hunter or a witch doctor and can't be a normal shaman? or assuming he can't be from another spec?

And both witch doctors and shadow hunters can heal, argably a waster side of the element/spiritual magic, that we only discover is that in wow

You claimed that these pictures define the archetype. Well, they are not even close and are just a mix of random combinations.

right, because far seers are shamans, and far seer is not their own class, like blademasters, and they are giving that fantasy to other shamans, not just orcs, just like all warriors can get avatar, despite being the mountain king ultimate, and bladestorm being a blademaster ultimate

So, the Blademaster is not the Arms Warrior? it is the Warrior in general?

?? that is dumb, not all undeads are affliction warlocks, where is saying in the lore that undeads are just affliction?

Glad you asked.

Touch of the Grave Undead Racial
Your attacks and damaging spells have a chance to drain the target, dealing [max(Attack power * 1.25, Spell power) * 0.25 * 1 * (1 + Versatility)] Shadow damage and healing you for the same amount. Additionally, you can breathe underwater indefinitely.

A master of shadow magic who specializes in drains and damage-over-time spells.

i don't know how this change anything, or have any relation to blizzard showing a blademaster in the section they talk about arms warrior, further proving what i've being saying for the last days, but people ignoring or not accepting the fact, just because they do not have two skills, and worse, instead of realizing they can jsut add the skills, like they did with others, they think is easier or ebtter to make up an entire new class.

Once again avoiding. You said that the Arms Warrior is the Blademaster, shown through the picture. Yet, they show the wrong picture of a Dwarf and Tauren Warriors.

He is not a "fucking copy" since he does have skills that does not exist in the Wc3, he is not canon you can play hots if you rly like him.

That are expanding on the WC3 abilities, which are all there.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

With how they design the game now.. this is how I imagine a new class comes in modern WoW expansions.

First it's fucking aamazing. Tons of power. Cool progression and story. Has a spec for every role. But at the end of the expansion all the power gets sucked out of thier magical power to save the kingdom. It goes away. Like completely gone. Your alts get a grey or white item that's like it's skeleton and it allows you to transmog into the classes gear. BUT here is the kicker. The next expansion comes out and a new class comes out to replace it and it's like 90% the same. Most the changes are narrative and graphical. This class is the only hope for all the world like the last one was and it accomplishs these things. People love it. Major success but.. at the end of the expansion they are forced to sacrifice themselves to save the world and they all go away again. This time you get that grey or white item again for the transmog but ALSO get a pet thats a ghostly figure of the character because last time people missed thier toon so now they get to have them forever in a different way. This in some form or fashion just kind of goes on until player outrage is big enough then they find a way to justifying the reason it needs to stay but come up with a lame compromise that no one likes but a few people will defend because they have YouTube careers that depend on WoW. But mid expansion they will start bitching about it because that's where the clicks are.

It makes total sense if you base everything around making it easier to balance and not having bloat guys. You should know by now that's what should always be the priority in game design. I hope I explained it right.

[Syegfryed]

Okay so what about samuro in HOTS isnt canon. Because hes 95% a copy from a canon game.

the other skills who didn't appear in the rts, isn't that hard to grasp

Yeah you are, everytime anyone mentions Blademasters being a thing and being something that uses mirror image, stealth and trickery you're arguing with them. Wheres your proof Blizzard say what you're saying.

you are making a strawman, i never said "Blizzard dosent think blademasters use stealth or illusions", i said blizzard don't think as those things as major points and definitive key factors in their theme, i didn't just said that i showed, with many examples of it, and i said there is no necessity to create a new class when they can add those skills into the warriors, who are the playable blademasters already.

Anything else is you and others making shit up

Ahh okay so you're allowed to talk about ranged assassins not making sense but then when I point out to you that Samuro isnt with all the other traditional warriors or paladins, that dosent count, its just a dumb divide. Interesting.

Like I said, your argument dosent stand up to any logic at all.

My dude, your entire argument based on "assassin" make no sense, is just something to call a hero instead of "DPS"

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They can do it with every other class concept. What you are saying is invalidating all potential future classes.

nope they can't, and im not "invalidating a potential future class" they are as much a "potential future class" as a far seer or a mountain king, is dumb, if putting the two skills into warrior already make then "fully represented" like some people say, there is no validation for a "potential new class" when the class essentially already is playable but missing two skills

Mirror Image is neither a dodge mechanic nor a sprint one. It is an invisibility one.

in the RTS it was more usable for sprint and mobility, not stealth/invisibility, thats why they can adapt like they did with avatar. who no longer provide spell immunity

Well, it isn't. Creating a Demon Hunter for 3 abilities was considered ridiculous. Yet, look at us now.

Demon hunter was his own entire class before, blademasters are warriors like far seers are shamans

No. We are claiming all of them are important.

Nope, you may, but others aren't

Once again, you interpret it as you wish. The matter of fact is that Wind Walk and Mirror Image are important to the Blademaster,

Not as much important to their concept/theme, not as much in their lore and not as much as people think off, and those elements can be put in the warrior class

Personal honor doesn't contradict these abilities.

It does, because blademasters are samurai-like guys with the bushido as inspiration, not rogues, not trickster, that is the rogue/ninja academy

You claimed that these pictures define the archetype. Well, they are not even close and are just a mix of random combinations.

an armored knight as human and a blademaster as orc, both arms warriors, pretty defined

Glad you asked.

This, make no sense, at all, just because undeads use shadow as their racial you think they can't use fel magic?

so only orcs can pick blademaster as "potent new class"?

Once again avoiding. You said that the Arms Warrior is the Blademaster, shown through the picture. Yet, they show the wrong picture of a Dwarf and Tauren Warriors

.

nope, they didn't, they showed a dwarf as a protection warrior, a tauren as a fury warrior, a human and a orc as a arms warrior, one of the arms warrior was clearly a blademaster.

i don't know where you are going with "wrong things" here, must be another nonsensical analogy

[Aphrel]

tbh i don't even care what class they add. as long as it has a ranged dps spec.

[username993720]

the other skills who didn't appear in the rts, isn't that hard to grasp

Which do nothing more than expand on the original skills of the RTS.

you are making a strawman, i never said "Blizzard dosent think blademasters use stealth or illusions", i said blizzard don't think as those things as major points and definitive key factors in their theme, i didn't just said that i showed, with many examples of it, and i said there is no necessity to create a new class when they can add those skills into the warriors, who are the playable blademasters already.

They don't view Bladestorm and Critical Strike more than the other two, as the skills are, hardly, present in NPCs (as you like to use for examples). The fact is, they don't view it in any particular way, other than the unit itself. Speaking on behalf of Blizzard, what they think or not, is nothing but your own personal interpretation.

I don't believe they can add these, just like a Tauren Chieftain's Reincarnation would look out of place.

Anything else is you and others making shit up

Never have we made stuff up. It's all there. You're just choosing to ignore some of it to suit your own perception.

nope they can't, and im not "invalidating a potential future class" they are as much a "potential future class" as a far seer or a mountain king, is dumb, if putting the two skills into warrior already make then "fully represented" like some people say, there is no validation for a "potential new class"

You are.
"Just put Dark Ranger and Priestess of the Moon abilities in the Hunter".
Just put Shadow Hunter abilities in the Shaman".
"Just put Warden abilities in the Rogue".
"Just put Tinker abilities in Engineering".
"Just put Alchemist abilities in Alchemy".

in the RTS it was more usable for sprint and mobility, not stealth/invisibility, thats why they can adapt like they did with avatar.

I don't care what people do. At then end of the day, we expect an invisibility animation, not a sprint one.

Demon hunter was his own entire class before, blademasters are warriors like far seers are shamans

Said who? people like you used to say it is just a Warlock or Rogue. Nothing special about it. Are you the one who decides what is viable or not?

Not as much important tot heir concept/theme, not as much in their lore and not as much as people think off and those elements can be put in the warrior class

Neither are Bladestorm and Critical, if you follow the amount of description available.

It does, because blademasters are samurai-like guys with the bushido as inspiration, not rogues, not trickster, that is the rogue/ninja academy

Then, why design them like it in the first place? We didn't come up with those aspects. Blizzard did. So, are you saying they are wrong?

an armored knight as human and a blademaster wrrior as orc, pretty defined and nothign yous aid invaldiate then

Human Knights use a sword (or a flail) and a shield. -_-
They are an upgrade of the Footman, which is a defensive archetype.

This, make no sense, at all, just because undeads use shadow as their racial you think they can't use fel magic?

Not at all. But, you have an indication where they belong to. It comes from their undead natures (necromancy), which the affliction Warlock embodies (necrolyte).

so only orcs can pick blademaster as "potent new class"?

How did you get to that conclusion?

nope, they didn't, they showed a dwarf as a protection warrior, a tauren as a fury warrior, a human and a orc as a arms warrior, one of the arms warrior was clearly a blademaster.

i don't know where you are going with "wrong things" here, but be another nonsensical analogy

Oh, so they nailed it like you want to with the Arms Warrior, depicting a very specific archetype, but not with the other ones? Tauren Warriors are, either, Chieftains or Tauren Warrior unit (totem-bearers), Bronzebeard Dwarf Warriors are Mountain Kings (and to a lesser extent Riflemen).

[jellmoo]

tbh i don't even care what class they add. as long as it has a ranged dps spec.

I think this a very common feeling right now. Melee burnout seems to be very real. This is one of the reasons I think that polling the topic on the forums results in very flawed results. Often times people aren't voting for what they think is coolest, best, or missing from the game. They're just voting against melee and for ranged.

[Ielenia]

Are you for real? the ebst way to mitigate damage is not taking damage, thats why people say to you get out of the fire.

Except the warrior class concept is not of an agile character that "gets out of the way". The warrior class concept is the slower, tough colossus, that can take hits, and that goes for all strength-based classes: the paladin, the warrior, the death knight. None of them have dodge/avoidance/"move out of the way" defensive cooldowns. All of their defensive cooldowns involve them standing their ground and taking the damage.

it would not, clearly would not, since is something minor, two ilusions for gigles

Except it's not "two minor illusions for giggles". You're purposely downplaying the ability's concept to try to make a point, which tells a lot about your arguments.

anda sprint like dash that can have a few seconds of invisibility, but not necessary

Except... it has to have an invisibility, otherwise it's not the same concept. That's like saying WC3's metamorphosis ability doesn't have to turn the demon hunter into a demon as long as it gave the class bonus armor/damage.

ah yes, not at all:

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Warrior#Arms

Oh yeah. Mobility as in "charge". Re-read your quote, and tell me where it says that said mobility is used to get out of danger. Or to trick your adversary. The warrior class concept is about getting into the middle of the fray and staying there.

It indeed does,

It doesn't. Because those who want to play as a blademaster want to play as a blademaster, not "pretend" to be a blademaster. The warrior class does not represent the blademaster concept because it doesn't have the gameplay style one would expect out of a concept based on the Warcraft 3 unit of the same name.

I already pointed, many times, with examples that those two abilities don't represent their gameplay at all, with a video of the ebst orc player in the world and he does not play blademaster like asneaky tricster, because is not their main thing, wind walk is a sprint ability for mobility, the main focus on the blademaster is killing, with powerful striks

Except they do. The concept of two abilities indicate that the blademaster concept is at odds with the warrior class concept. The warriors are the "in-your-face-and-stay-in-your-face" kind of gameplay style, but if we were to equate the blademaster concept's idealized gameplay to one of the existing classes in WoW, it would fit way more to the rogue playstyle, than the warrior playstyle. Samuro's cooldowns are about avoiding damage and getting out of the way, not mitigating damage and standing their ground, for example.

This is also represented in their lore and history who revolves around the mastery of the blade and their martial proweness, not in deceptive or sneaky skills, only a blind man canot see it, and only a disonehst one keep saying those two skills are their "main thing"

Except we still have those abilities' concepts unrepresented in the warrior class, and those abilities' concepts do represent a playstyle that is absent in the warrior class. A playstyle reinforced by Jubei'thos in Hellfire Citadel, as the man goes invisible, and summons copies of himself.

Also, something funny i find while reading the wiki a preview from the warrior class made by blizzard itself, back in legion showing off different warriors, Arms spec is represented by different styles, armored human warrior and blademaster orc warrior, even using burning blade toy, pretty cool

https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...7152976149.jpg

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...series-warrior

Or it's a warrior player fighting a Burning Blade blademaster NPC, like you do in the actual expansion? ALSO, OH NO, THAT WEAPON SEEMS TO BE ON FIRE!? BUT HOW IF BLADEMASTERS CANNOT MANIPULATE FIRE!?

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Once again, it's an "ability" but in reality it's just a glorified toy. As for your other passives you mentioned, they're not at all the same. Because talents and class abilities that provide those buffs were designed to synergize with the mechanics of your class. The warglaives were just stat sticks that had a proc similar to trinkets. I really don't think they were designed with synergy in mind. And Wailing Arrow is an active skill with a cooldown. It's not just some simple passive thing. You actively have to click it to use it. That's why it's different.

So are the weapon and back piece from Sylvanas. They're an ability but in reality they're just, as you put it, "glorified toys." That highly likely will be replaced within this expansion's lifetime, even.

As for your other examples, part of why death knights had warlock abilities was because former orc warlocks shoved their souls into corpses. So first generation death knights actually knew how to wield fel magic.

Except none of those death knights were "first generation death knights", created by Gul'Dan. Those were second and third generation death knights, portrayed in WoW, created by Ner'zhul and Arthas. And second-generation death knights were converted paladins, and third-generation death knights were resurrected heroes of the Alliance and Horde.

But regardless, even the lore around dark rangers just paints them as nothing but undead quel'dorei hunters.

Except it doesn't "just paints them as nothing but undead quel'dorei hunters". The lore depicts them as masters of deception and trickery: "These cunning individuals, adept at manipulating opponents, are mainly composed of forcibly raised Farstrider rangers of Quel'Thalas. They now enjoy nothing more than sowing dissension and hatred within the enemy ranks." What you're doing is akin to describing today's death knights as "just undead paladins/hunters/mages/warriors/etc". Because that is what their lore says.

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Yes, of course it was. That of a winged demon, with horns and hooves. Similar to a Dreadlord:

Nowhere was the Vengeance demon form portrayed.

No, that's your take. The demon hunter concept is about turning into a demon, not a specific type and form of demon. It is fully represented in both of the WoW class' specs. By that logic, none of the demon hunter is represented in any of the specs because none of the demons the DH turns into are "full purple faceless demons" like the WC3, and how the warlock's meta was.

Exactly. You got it, finally.

It doesn't change the fact that the WoW class seems to have been inspired WAY more in the HotS DH, than the WC3 DH.

Yes, they do. Ask Triceron. He worked for a gaming company.

Ask him yourself, since you are the one making the claim.

You are correct about the process.
And why do non-WC3 Hero units lose every time?

Well, the dark ranger, necromancer and tinker, who are WC3 units, also "lost every time". And the demon hunter also "lost every time" until it finally got its time to shine, two expansions ago.

Also, may I remind you, that the dark ranger, demon hunter and tinker, concepts who do have WC3 heroes, lost to the runemaster, a concept without a WC3 hero, because they weren't one of the top three picks for a new class in Wrath?

Anything is valid. But, What makes it into the game, in the end of the day, are WC3 Hero units-based classes.

And what doesn't make into the game are also concepts based on WC3 units. Where's the dark ranger, necromancer, tinker, alchemist, etc?

It is backed up by a Blizzard statement.

Quote that statement.

List and implementation are two different things. We can have tons of ideas, here on the forums, yet only one will be implemented, whether we like it or not. Do the maths: if 3 expansions in a row, a WC3 Hero unit wins over the others, what does it mean?

Occam's Razor says it's coincidence, correlation.

The other way around. The Pandaren Brewmaster served as the basis for the class, while the others served as supplements.

Most of the class comes from outside sources, though. And if most of what the class is about comes from outside sources, then it's a tough battle to demonstrate that the monk class had the majority of its design based off one single unit that doesn't even share its name with the class.

No, i don't. But, how else would they make them playable?

How about "not making them playable"? That's like asking murlocs to be made smart as humans to make them playable. Or that nagas suddenly have normal legs so they use mounts and be playable. Also, venthyr need anima to survive, and there is no anima in the living realm.

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no one is "wanting to "ridicule" anything,

Dude, you literally did just that when you called the Mirror Image ability is "a minor ability for giggles":

it would not, clearly would not, since is something minor, two ilusions for gigles anda sprint like dash that can have a few seconds of invisibility, but not necessary

[TheFirstOnes]

Some shit like Dragonsworn...

OR EVEN BETTER...

BLIZZARD! GIMME MY FUCKIN BARD CLASS, PLEASE!

[Ielenia]

they literally still said "Though blademasters are masters of stealth and guile,they value personal honor above all else., no trickss, no sneaky rogues(guile means cunning, astuteness, warrior traits, not "deceptive tricksters)

You basically making the argument for us that the blademasters are about stealth and guile. And as for "personal honor", do you know if their personal honor does not include "tricks, sneaky rogue stuff"? Because one can still have their personal honor and still engage in "stealth and guile". A heavy indication of that is the very fact that blademasters are "masters of stealth and guile". Because if "stealth and guile" was against their honor, they wouldn't be masters of that.

Otherwise, that's like saying Khadgar and Jaina are against magic. Despite being masters of magic.

[Daronokk]

To the people that think a Blademaster Class won't work because Warriors and Mages already have some of their iconic abilities, think again...

Just look at what happened to Warlocks, they lost Death Coil to Death Knights and Metamorphosis to Demon Hunters.

If Blizzard wanted to they could take away Invisibility and Mirror Image from Mages, and take away Bladestorm from Warriors. Give them to the new Blademaster Class along with some new abilities like they did with the Demon Hunter.
Meanwhile the Mage and Warrior should get something new that fills their loss. Not that difficult.

[jellmoo]

You are literally "slamming your head" against the Truth, that a Blademaster played and is, something different than what you assumed

Dude, do you honestly not think that maybe, just maybe you're wrong when literally everyone in the thread is telling you the same thing?

[Ielenia]

You are literally "slamming your head" against the Truth, that a Blademaster played and is, something different than what you assumed

Oh wow, and you even felt the need to capitalize the first 't' in 'truth', as if you're speaking some sort of divine statement. Which is doubly amusing since what you call "truth" is nothing but a subjective interpretation. In other words, you're once again dishonestly stating your own personal opinions as fact.