Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

I don't really know and my theory isn't based on actual lore in game, it's just what I think about how the conclusion of this expansion would come to a satisfying ending.

I can't imagine the secret would be how to have characters leave the Shadowlands. Doing so sems piss easy for those with an above average standing in the major factions of the Shadowlands. Kyrians obviously do it constantly, and are indeed magically transformed to be able to do so without any issue whatsoever, not to mention Ardenweald literally has that giant portal to the living world right there.

I imagine the big secret the Jailer will find is on how to extend his influence beyond the Shadowlands. His power comes from the Shadowlands, and we are given no indication he can influence anything else.
If I was writing at least I would make the big secret how to use the Shadowlands itself on other realms. Essentially how to break the fabricated stalemate between all teh cosmic forces.

[Nyel]

I can't imagine the secret would be how to have characters leave the Shadowlands. Doing so sems piss easy for those with an above average standing in the major factions of the Shadowlands. Kyrians obviously do it constantly, and are indeed magically transformed to be able to do so without any issue whatsoever, not to mention Ardenweald literally has that giant portal to the living world right there.

I imagine the big secret the Jailer will find is on how to extend his influence beyond the Shadowlands. His power comes from the Shadowlands, and we are given no indication he can influence anything else.
If I was writing at least I would make the big secret how to use the Shadowlands itself on other realms. Essentially how to break the fabricated stalemate between all teh cosmic forces.

Yeah, that's more of what I tried to say. The ability to shape the world of the living as they can shape the world of the dead. But again, we somehow must connect all of this to Azeroth. If we don't, this expansion was more story filler than WoD which actually gave us Gul'dan and Legion.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Would that shock you? This entire expansion has been one long extended bit of filler plot. Our reason for going to the Shadowlands are flimsy at best. We don't even come here to save all of creation, we literally come here to save Anduin and Pals, as well as dragging Sylvanas back to the denizens of Azeroth can take it in turns to smack her across the face.

Death is broken, it isn't just affecting Azeroth and thats an obvious thing that you aren't putting out. Its not filler plot or any stupid reasoning like that at all. The Shadowlands is where the problem is and well the rift above Icecrown is kinda a big problem as in theory anything from the Maw can get to Azeroth(Well Most of everything). Anduin and co are kidnapped because they defied Sylvanas. And considering how we'd go into the "Bad place" to rescue them. And no we aren't really going after Sylvanas to bring her back. People want her dead not "Bring her back."

Now this plot isnt entirely without merit, the idea that we think we are doing something simple and it ends up being more complicated than we could ever imagine is a storytelling device that can work brilliantly. But Blizzard never seemed to figure that we need a reason to care beyond the baseline level of "kill the evil dude".
Shadowlands has essentially spent a full 2 major patches now mostly dragging its feet on why we should care to defeat Zovaal. The best the game can offer at this point is that we should defeat him because he is evil, not because he has really done anything do us or Azeroth personally to deserve it.

Are you just ignoring the game to make your complaint sound logical? Cause you are pretty much ignoring Sylvanas's motivations and well what Zovaal wants. He's behind the BFA war and all those that were killed are now in the Maw which isn't supposed to happen. All of this isn't flimsy reasons to go to the Shadowlands. Zovaal even tells his plan "Death comes for the soul of your world." We know what that means. He wants Azeroth's soul for some plan to basically enslave reality to his will(He did create the Lich King so goal is the same).

You don't just ignore a threatening thing like that and well we still had to rescue Thrall, Anduin, Jaina and Baine. There's more then enough reason to go to the Shadowlands. Even after you rescue our azerothian leaders we still have to be there because well leaving the Shadowlands would just leave us vulnerable to the Maw's forces. Sure we could ignore it but thats like ignoring the Burning Legion invasion via the tomb of Sargeras and we didn't ignore that. Zovaal may be evil(And thats a reason to go after him but even Bolvar points out he is the one who is the master of the Helm of Domination.

It all leads to Zovaal, the game even tells you why. He misleads Sylvanas about saving the Shadowlands but that was a lie. There's no dragging of feet. Just because we aren't on Azeroth doesn't mean the threat to it is fake. This idea that we have to be on Azeroth for a threat to her(the planet and world soul) be relevant or "important."

[Nyel]

Death is broken...

This has - to this day - zero tangible influence on Azeroth. Death is broken as of now is just a phrase they've given us. It basically has no meaning at all at this point and only gets one when we get a direct connection to Azeroth which we as players can experience. As long as we don't go back to Azeroth, everything of the expansion's story has taken place elsewhere and therefore was completely disconnected from the place we tried to save.

[therumblings]

Haven't seen anyone mention this but apparently Blizzard stealth removed a bunch of jokes/flirts on the PTR assuming this post on reddit is accurate.

https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...okes_from_the/

[Nyel]

Haven't seen anyone mention this but apparently Blizzard stealth removed a bunch of jokes/flirts on the PTR assuming this post on reddit is accurate.

https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...okes_from_the/

At this point, this is just sad. Most of them have been completely harmless and indeed funny puns and jokes.

"Nice pants. What's the drop rate?" is an epic line.

[Sondrelk]

Are you just ignoring the game to make your complaint sound logical? Cause you are pretty much ignoring Sylvanas's motivations and well what Zovaal wants. He's behind the BFA war and all those that were killed are now in the Maw which isn't supposed to happen. All of this isn't flimsy reasons to go to the Shadowlands. Zovaal even tells his plan "Death comes for the soul of your world." We know what that means. He wants Azeroth's soul for some plan to basically enslave reality to his will(He did create the Lich King so goal is the same).

That is exactly my point, pretty much all the reasons to care for him as a character has to do with what other, more interesting and charismatic characters he is latched to.
His "interesting" backstory is basically just how he was responsible for Ner'zhul and Arthas.
His characterization in SL proper is pretty much all carried by Sylvanas being the person we do want to defeat.
Going forward I care more about rescuing Anduin than I care about defeating Zovaal.

Zovaal is a blank slate as a character, existing primarily as a nebulous evil villain for more interesting characters to latch onto. He could be replaced by a disease that makes people evil and his impact on the story would be the same, and possibly even made better.

[Leiandri]

It's accurate. I went through most of the races on the PTR earlier this morning and it seems that anywhere from 30-50% of ALL joke and flirt voice lines have been removed. Both male trolls and female dwarves only ended up with 2 silly voice lines left for example.

[therumblings]

It's accurate. I went through most of the races on the PTR earlier this morning and it seems that anywhere from 30-50% of ALL joke and flirt voice lines have been removed. Both male trolls and female dwarves only ended up with 2 silly voice lines left for example.

This is absolutely depressing, but people will still find a way to defend this, no matter how far they go.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Haven't seen anyone mention this but apparently Blizzard stealth removed a bunch of jokes/flirts on the PTR assuming this post on reddit is accurate.

https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...okes_from_the/

I mean at least it would be consistent, the flirts were inuendo ladden (obviously, that was the whole joke about them), so it was forseeeable that they might be next on the chopping block.

- - - Updated - - -

It's accurate. I went through most of the races on the PTR earlier this morning and it seems that anywhere from 30-50% of ALL joke and flirt voice lines have been removed. Both male trolls and female dwarves only ended up with 2 silly voice lines left for example.

Just to make sure, how did you test this? I mean they are random aren't they?

[Raetary]

I hate this.
They could've just reworded some of the jokes if they were such an issue.

[Sondrelk]

I hate this.
They could've just reworded some of the jokes if they were such an issue.

Isnt that exactly what is being done right now?...

They have not removed /Flirt, they are removing specific jokes.

[therumblings]

they are removing specific jokes.

Which literally none of them needed to be removed.

[Dracullus]

I start to think that all these quality of life changes were not panic move, but something to offset community reaction for this whole woke censoring.

[Sondrelk]

Which literally none of them needed to be removed.

Well I guess Blizzard disagrees.
The fact that they didn't just remove /Flirt as a whole does mean they looked at all of the ones available and out some thought into it.

Hopefully they replace the lines removed with something though, even if I cannot remember the last time I heard someone use a /flirt line in-game other than to see that it is still there.

[therumblings]

I start to think that all these quality of life changes were not panic move, but something to offset community reaction for this whole woke censoring.

I'm thinking the same thing. If they give players what they wanted since the beta for gameplay, they are more likely to ignore the censoring.

Blizzard is in such a sad state of affairs right now, almost every week making themselves look even worse, I might just take a break from the overwhelming shitstorms for a few months and return to see if it gets any better or worse.

[Sondrelk]

I start to think that all these quality of life changes were not panic move, but something to offset community reaction for this whole woke censoring.

Or maybe, just maybe the developers removed the stuff because they didn't like it being a part of the game, and they banked on the community not really caring whether they could fart on people, or inappropriately moan at strangers.

Most likely Blizzard changed stuff because they decided to give the whole thing a once over now that they were already working on removing references to sex pests, but really the community being angry at this reflects poorly on themselves more than anything.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I start to think that all these quality of life changes were not panic move, but something to offset community reaction for this whole woke censoring.

I think they simply have 2 different root causes. The sterlization of the game right now is a reaction to the lawsuit and maybe some of the woke elements now having the power to change things that previously were prevented. The QoL changes were because people didn't enjoy the game and stopped playing.

[Dracullus]

I'm thinking the same thing. If they give players what they wanted since the beta for gameplay, they are more likely to ignore the censoring.

Blizzard is in such a sad state of affairs right now, almost every week making themselves look even worse, I might just take a break from the overwhelming shitstorms for a few months and return to see if it gets any better or worse.

This whole censoring part is ridicolous, but also meaningless, maybe beside RP players. No matter intention behind it, 9.1.5 changes and new goals like MT return are more important to me than ability to flirt or fart. And it's not hard to avoid shitstorm, cause you see them more outside game than in game.

[therumblings]

This whole censoring part is ridicolous, but also meaningless, maybe beside RP players. No matter intention behind it, 9.1.5 changes and new goals like MT return are more important to me than ability to flirt or fart. And it's not hard to avoid shitstorm, cause you see them more outside game than in game.

Each individual change is meaningless and can easily be ignored. But each individual change adds up over time. Blizzard's current philosophy is flawed and will keep pushing changes. Certain players will keep defending them no matter how far they go, they could remove every female player character for some bullshit reason, and the usual shills will make up reasons it needed to be removed. First they came for NPCs, I was fine with removing references to scumbags, then they came for sexuality in general, and now jokes and flirts. I simply want to avoid Blizzard for a few weeks or maybe months, because their new attitude is sickeningly transparent. Each individual change is not important, but the reason behind it is much bigger.