Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hugnomo]

I really hope they use this new reality altering plot device to really shake things up going forward. Have it make some radical change that could take us to a WoW 2.0 of sorts, Azeroth revamp or something like it.
Because, even if I'm a huge fan of WoW and Warcraft in general, for years, it is feeling a little stagnant. With the slow content delivery this time around, only 2 major patches, being sued, all the controversies and scandals ... I'm not one for exaggeration, and often argue against the more dramatic side of the community, but it seems like it's one of the worse, if not the worst, moments in Blizzard history.
As someone who's never been a fan of LoL, having watched Arcane, their MMO is sounding more and more appealing. A new, modern game, built off of a great quality narrative that's had mainstream success ... At the same time, FF XIV has become very successful as well.
This is just my opinion, but even as someone who isn't usually negative about the game, it's feeling like it's falling behind. I think they need something shockingly impressive soon.

Edit: By a revamp I don't mean retreading old stories. No time travel, just a modern, beautiful world with great new stories to tell.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I mean I think the best way for the Narrative Team to restart is to start with a clean slate and then reframe how they want to tell their story. The Campaign System doesn't work because of how slow it is and they should figure out a new strategy on that front.

Obviously I don't think that's happening with the Trial of Sylvanas seemingly happening after the Raid which means that it is very likely that we're going back to an Azeroth where the Narrative Team will be able to do a lot of damage relatively quickly especially with the potential of Genocidal Turalyon enslaving the entirety of Azeroth in preparation for the arrival of God Empress Yrel. Which again just reminder that is one storyline that could occur but there could be many other storylines that add to this next expansion becoming one of the most chaotic expansions of all time and wasting 3-5 expansions just like BFA.

Definitely I think the Narrative Team should chill out and pace the story slower but within a different format and actually try and tell the story that they want instead of waiting for outside transmedia that doesn't really do anything for theorycrafters in the first place and at this point most of us are just waiting to see what Zovaal ending is and try and piece together the events of Shadowlands in a post-Shadowlands world.

I mean the solution to the campaign system is to frankly just dump it all at once and call it a day. But then the campaign would be exposed for what it is, which is a beginning, 75% filler, and an ending.

Frankly even "stepping back and slowing down" really isn't enough to get the story structure fixed. They need to rebuild the foundations of how the story is being told at all. And I don't mean "reboot the universe so we can tell Arthas' story again." I mean they need to just close the old book, open a new one, and start again from the prologue. Introduce new allies, new villains, new arcs and then start building the story out again from there. If they're serious about putting a stopper on "and now let's go more in depth on this one line of dialogue from WC3" after Shadowlands, then 10.0 gives them the best spot to start telling something new. Something that goes beyond Undeath and Light and Void ad nauseum.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

Says a lot that we got a batch of 9.2 cutscenes yesterday and we're still desperate for news.

Shadowlands really doesn't do it for anyone.

I mean, those cinematics gave nothing to talk about, outside the brief FF XIV similarity.
Open a portal to Zareth. Go in it. Jailer opens a portal to the raid.

[Ersula]

I mean what if this never ends and Sylvanas is just the Main Character forever? I mean there's a chance that is the case.

I think they took the story down this road because they wanted WoW to have a Loki-esque character. A character both intensely loved & hated, with nefarious means.

But how annoyed do you think they are that they're only at the Thor 2 point in this storyline & Marvel literally made a girl Loki who goes by "Sylvie"? They may take a hard left turn just to avoid accusing of ripping off Marvel. And the Irony is that trying to avoid associations with Sarah Karrigan is how we got the character in the first place.

[Villager720]

False, the Ren'dorei were introduced for three key Story reasons:

1) To serve as foil to the Sin'dorei, and vice versa. Like the Sin'dorei, the Ren'dorei were cast out of the faction they belonged out and were forced to rely on dark powers to endure. Both were also led (at least originally, in both cases) by an ambitious and young Magister. This is reflected in the crests of both races. While the Sin'dorei phoenix rises from the ashes towards the Light of the Sunwell, pointing upward, the Ren'dorei phoenix falls from the Light of the Sunwell, pointing downward.

2) To continue the storyline of Alleria started in Patch 7.3 in the Mac'aree zone. Alleria learned how to use the Void under the ominous Locus-Walker's teachings, and she became the first of what would later become the Ren'dorei. Just as she learned to control the Void, it was a natural continuation that she would become a master herself in using the Void. The student becomes the master. And that is why a "group of her kin" was introduced, to give Alleria the chance to rescue her kin from the Void, and become their teacher. She started as a student of the Void, and became teacher herself. You could say that the cycle was complete.

The Ren'dorei were not introduced for cosmetic reasons, there was a clear Story purpose behind them!

Couple things:

First - the blood elves weren’t cast out of the Alliance. The high elves left before the Third War, and the blood elves pulled their military support from the remaining Alliance of Lordaeron after Garithos tried to have them murdered. So the blood elves and void elves aren’t a foil in how they joined their respective factions.

Second, if they were introduced for important story reasons as you claim, and not for cosmetic reasons, how come they almost immediately got sidelined, with Alleria, in all story arcs since? They didn’t even feature in the old god themed patches of BfA. The only development for the void elves since 8.0 has been to make them more high elven in appearance. A cosmic update, if you will.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I think they took the story down this road because they wanted WoW to have a Loki-esque character. A character both intensely loved & hated, with nefarious means.

But how annoyed do you think they are that they're only at the Thor 2 point in this storyline & Marvel literally made a girl Loki who goes by "Sylvie"? They may take a hard left turn just to avoid accusing of ripping off Marvel. And the Irony is that trying to avoid associations with Sarah Karrigan is how we got the character in the first place.

Yeah, I don't know. I kinda hope if she has to survive she just becomes part of the Trio of the Windrunner sisters and she's no longer completely Yandere over her sisters anymore since she got her soul back. Maybe we can have something that has a payoff with the sisters that isn't that awful comic and its' iconic meme art.

I mean Zovaal is essentially just Thanos and this definitely does feel like World of Warcraft's Infinity War although I have no idea if that means we're going for a Endgame scenario with Time Travelling involved or if its a reset. Perhaps, it's nothing at all. I guess we'll see. I honestly just hope that Sylvanas's trial is not ascension to godhood or leading to another Sylvanas themed expansion down the line.

[Sharby]

I really hope they use this new reality altering plot device to really shake things up going forward. Have it make some radical change that could take us to a WoW 2.0 of sorts, Azeroth revamp or something like it.
Because, even if I'm a huge fan of WoW and Warcraft in general, for years, it is feeling a little stagnant. With the slow content delivery this time around, only 2 major patches, being sued, all the controversies and scandals ... I'm not one for exaggeration, and often argue against the more dramatic side of the community, but it seems like it's one of the worse, if not the worst, moments in Blizzard history.
As someone who's never been a fan of LoL, having watched Arcane, their MMO is sounding more and more appealing. A new, modern game, built off of a great quality narrative that's had mainstream success ... At the same time, FF XIV has become very successful as well.
This is just my opinion, but even as someone who isn't usually negative about the game, it's feeling like it's falling behind. I think they need something shockingly impressive soon.

I don't think its unreasonable to wish for something a bit less grounded for WoW's future considering current state of things.

I actually think Shadowlands is pretty decent for an expansion and I still want something more groundbreaking for 10.0.



People could argue that a risk is the last thing WoW should take right now but I'm not too sure, honestly something as simple as removing faction barrier would go a long way.

[Hitei]

I mean what if this never ends and Sylvanas is just the Main Character forever? I mean there's a chance that is the case.

Unless she ends up like Garrosh where she time travels and then one of her sisters kills her and causes them to go through a depression arc again. I really have my doubts the Banshee Queen will be killed off.

Honestly. When has she ever even been the "main character" except in people's heads? Some of BfA's cinematics, and her raid instance? She certainly wasn't main in BfA itself. The intro was mostly about Saurfang and the Night Elves (she was 100% secondary to Anduin in the book) not her; the war campaigns were about Jaina and the Kul Tirans, and then the Zandalari; Magni and Brann for the Azeroth questlines; Azshara and the Mechagnomes; and finally Wrathion and N'zoth. She really just shows up on rare occasions to bark some orders and then leaves, and then is around as the villain of the culmination of Saurfang's storyline.

She's been in a lot of cutscenes in Shadowlands, but the expansion hasn't really been about her. After the cinematic she fucks off to the background as the cause of shit going haywire, then everything from the maw intro until like, Battle of Ardenweald is just about the Jailer/Maw/Covenants. She's in cutscenes, but usually as a secondary to either the Jailer or Anduin--and then important for her specific raid tier, after which she's stripped of armor and weapons and seems to just be, at absolute best, a helper.

I think people just went into BfA assuming she'd follow Garrosh's story, become super important and then get killed off there or right after. So now they feel like she's been the focus for two expansions... when really she wasn't a focus at all during BfA in the actual game or supplemental media, people were just obsessing over her in discourse.

Nathanos is the exact same thing. Very little of BfA is about him, he largely just hangs out on the ship in Zuldazar and helps out in bits of the war campaign. But people spent so much time absolutely foaming at the mouth about him and being Danuser's insert that they felt like he was everywhere and the only thing in the story. Ditto Thrall in Cata, really (which I'm equally guilty of).

It's literally a case of making yourself sick of a character because you spend so much time thinking about them.

[Ersula]

Yeah, I don't know. I kinda hope if she has to survive she just becomes part of the Trio of the Windrunner sisters and she's no longer completely Yandere over her sisters anymore since she got her soul back. Maybe we can have something that has a payoff with the sisters that isn't that awful comic and its' iconic meme art.

I'm still expecting Alleria to have her dark storyline soon. The void doesn't have to be a negative influence, but its definitely a bad influence on her. And that's the fitting storyline: Vareesa is the mediator between them & then during that storyline Vareesa & Sylvanas will be on the outside the way Vareesa & Alleria where during the last 4 years.

Couple things - the blood elves weren’t cast out of the Alliance. The high elves left before the Third War, and the blood elves pulled their military support from the remaining Alliance of Lordaeron when Garithos tried to have them murdered. So the blood elves and void elves aren’t a foil in how they go in their respective factions.

Second, if they were introduced for important story reasons as you claim, and not for cosmetic reasons, how come they almost immediately got sidelined, with Alleria, in all story arcs since? They didn’t even feature in the old god themed patches of BfA. The only development for the void elves since 8.0 has been to make them more high elven in appearance. A cosmic update, if you will.

Sort of, though they didn't "leave" the alliance at that time. Silvermoon just didn't help during the first war. That doesn't mean "leaving the alliance" because more than half of the other Human Kingdoms didn't participate in the first war either. Garithos didn't exactly conspire to kill them either, he just didn't want to put effort into helping them. Including using them to protect human forces. Silvermoon did aid Lordaeron during the Third War, then it was the Alliance's unsatisfactory aid in the aftermath of the attack on the Sunwell that led them to switch factions.

Blood Elves & Void elves are one race with an enormous berth of lore. Just like the Night Elves & Nightborne are one race with an enormous berth of lore.

But as for "Not getting any story focus sense they were added" uh look how many races there are: Most of the races haven't gotten any story focus since Legion. Imagine if any of the races who have had less development than High Elves complained as much as they did. Let the final note of this discussion be pondering on why anyone who's character looks like THIS: Would ask for High Elves as an Allied race?

[huth]

She's been in a lot of cutscenes in Shadowlands, but the expansion hasn't really been about her. After the cinematic she fucks off to the background as the cause of shit going haywire, then everything from the maw intro until like, Battle of Ardenweald is just about the Jailer/Maw/Covenants. She's in cutscenes, but usually as a secondary to either the Jailer or Anduin--and then important for her specific raid tier, after which she's stripped of armor and weapons and seems to just be, at absolute best, a helper.

She's been little more than one of the Jailer's many stooges, and i'd say not even a particularly important one either. As seen by how he casually casts her aside in SoD.

[Makabreska]

She's been little more than one of the Jailer's many stooges, and i'd say not even a particularly important one either. As seen by how he casually casts her aside in SoD.

Well, her work was done. He had little use for her after SoD and he doesn't seem to be big on sentimentalities.

[Hugnomo]

I don't think its unreasonable to wish for something a bit less grounded for WoW's future considering current state of things.

I actually think Shadowlands is pretty decent for an expansion and I still want something more groundbreaking for 10.0.



People could argue that a risk is the last thing WoW should take right now but I'm not too sure, honestly something as simple as removing faction barrier would go a long way.

Yeah I thought it was decent as well, but wasn't given a fair shake due to the release schedule being so slow. And having one less tier.

I think they really need a bold swing. And revamping or removing factions, at least gameplay wise in some form, could definitely factor in that.

[Sharby]

Yeah I thought it was decent as well, but wasn't given a fair shake due to the release schedule being so slow. And having one less tier.

I think they really need a bold swing. And revamping or removing factions, at least gameplay wise in some form, could definitely factor in that.

If Shadowlands came after Legion I think it would've been received a lot better, a sobering expansion after how intense Legion was, but people definitely would've respected them taking a bit to calm down.

But to have a relatively conservative expansion after BFA was a big error on Blizzard's part and to be in the middle of said expansion during external turmoil is a bad combination, I haven't noticed much of a population drop since this all started but I don't think I can deny being a WoW player is kinda awkward in some gaming spaces right now.

If Legion got launched during the pandemic I think WoW would've seen a big resurgence. But what's done is done lol.

[Luck4]

I think they took the story down this road because they wanted WoW to have a Loki-esque character. A character both intensely loved & hated, with nefarious means.

Kinda hard to agree with this when we see Loki being beaten and in trouble so many times. Still waiting for something like this to happen with Sylvanas:

[FronzillaN7]

I've been a long time viewer here on mmochamp, but never have left a forum reply before. But after seeing this gif of Hulk smashing Loki like that, I have to say, if something like this indeed happens to Sylvanas, please, please, please, let Baine do this. Let him do something! Preferably this!!

[Three Faced Goddess]

Looks like Ersula was right. Shit. No more Lich King and the scourge is completely forgotten. Truly the end of my favorite era. Sorry Ersula, I was wrong.

[TheFirstOnes]

Looks like Ersula was right. Shit. No more Lich King and the scourge is completely forgotten. Truly the end of my favorite era. Sorry Ersula, I was wrong.

What do you mean?

[Three Faced Goddess]

The Reforging the Helm IGC tag had the descriptor that they're using the helm of domination to be make the Arbiter's Crown which is fucking stupid. I hate it so much. That means that the rampaging Scourge will either be left to rampage or they forgot about the them. I think the latter is more likely, unfortunately. Kind of like the giant Sword.

[Ersula]

The Reforging the Helm IGC tag had the descriptor that they're using the helm of domination to be make the Arbiter's Crown which is fucking stupid. I hate it so much. That means that the rampaging Scourge will either be left to rampage or they forgot about the them. I think the latter is more likely, unfortunately. Kind of like the giant Sword.

I think you mean the Arbiter + Lich King responsibilities will be done by the same person. Honestly this would be more fitting for Sylvanas. I mean didn't she want suicide this whole time? Does she actually care what anyone might do to her as punishment. It feels more fitting if Pelegos is like "My first decree as Arbiter is to force Sylvanas to repay her debt to society by being the arbiter forever, bye."

[Three Faced Goddess]

I think you mean the Arbiter + Lich King responsibilities will be done by the same person. Honestly this would be more fitting for Sylvanas. I mean didn't she want suicide this whole time? Does she actually care what anyone might do to her as punishment. It feels more fitting if Pelegos is like "My first decree as Arbiter is to force Sylvanas to repay her debt to society by being the arbiter forever, bye."

I just hate what they did with the LK, there could have been so many awesome things they could have done with the character but threw that away because the current writers want to unsaddle themselves from the foundational lore. The Lich King and Scourge were my favorite parts of Warcraft besides the Forsaken, Sylvanas, and Dark Rangers. The forsaken identity is shattered. They ruined Sylvanas for me. Dark Rangers are never going to be playable (despite being teased.) The Lich King role is dead and the Scourge are going to be rofl stomped like they were never a threat.

I don't think Sylvanas is going to be Arbiter. I'm pretty sure it's Pelagos. Sylvanas is probably going the way of the dodo or written out of the story entirely for the foreseeable future.