[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Fabinas]

It's tricky to weave, but saying that you're not interested in appealing to the hardcore fans of the books is pretty dumb. LOTR made changes but the overall story stayed the same. Here's how Rafe Judkins would have done Lord of the Rings:

Episode 1: Rosie Cotton POV. Bilbo Baggins is throwing a big obnoxious party and pisses everyone off by disappearing. Sam is drunk and puking, so Rosie brings him home. What can she do? You can't find any better men.

Episode 2: Rosie discovers that Frodo is going mad from the one ring. Lady Galadriel arrives and tells Rosie she has to bring Frodo and Sam to Mount Doom. She leaves behind Gandalf, a wizard who is always high from smoking too much weed, to help them on the journey.

Episode 3: The hobbits are helpless in the wild, but Rosie gets things in order. She makes a camp, she hunts for food, and she even gets Gandalf to give up pot after she hits him several times with a walking stick. There's some debate about which way to go, and they listen to Frodo and end up attacked by Black Riders. Gandalf, finally sober, keeps them off. They all decide to follow Rosie from now on.

Episode 4: Love triangle, Sam and Frodo fighting over Rosie attracts more Black Riders, and they barely make it to Rivendell where they are saved by Arwen.

Episode 5: New Fellowship of the Ring: Legolas is a female, Arwen takes Aragorn's place, Rosie obviously involved. Off to Moria.

Episode 6: In Moria. Pippen makes too much noise, attracting the Balrog. Gandalf is knocked off a bridge, but Rosie saves them. It turns out that Elrond gave Rosie his ring of power and she uses it to defeat the Balrog.

Episode 7: Galadriel. Don't have to change this part much.

Episode 8: Boromir and Frodo both go mad and start fighting over the ring. Rosie, after fighting off several hundred Orcs, kills Boromir (good riddance, he's a man), then uses her ring to cure Frodo of his madness. Arwen goes off to win the battles of the two towers while Rosie brings Sam and Frodo towards Mount Doom.

There would be two more seasons, the last one ending with Frodo and Sam both going completely mad and Rosie throwing them both into Mount Doom then passionately making out with Arwen after they reunite over the ruins of Barad-dur.

Late to the party, err, discussion, as i just lately watched WoT.

But if i were Bezos, i'd definitely hire you for this LotR "adaptation"

Pure comedy, lol'd so hard with your post.

[Witchblade77]

so I'm finally getting around to listening to the books (original recording - wait times at the library were kinda obscene for them, and at the moment I don't have time to read books THAT size) and I actualy can see where Rafe got some of his changes. it shows that he was paying some, though not enough attention. (for instance Lewes was genuinely not the first of the reborn persona that fought with the dark one and books make it clear in a prologue of the first book - he's just the first to get actualy named a Dragon and the one who got Saidin corrupted through his hubris). other changes are just... dude... WHY? I mean I get it, it takes Jordan forever to get through anything, and you had to make it fit into a set number of episodes, but at the same time us not meeting Thom in a first episode is a damn shame. Every major player converging into Two Rivers at the same time makes so much more sense then meeting him for the first time by what appears to be an accident. I really would rather Rafe kept the scene with Thom, Morraine, Rand and Mat instead of adding the scene with Egwene getting her braid. that scene was kinda dumb tbh, meanwhile Thom and Morraine tip toeing around each other in the book had me cackle with glee.

amusingly so far every single character I can see as their show counterparts... except for Morraine. its not the height, its just.. vibe is such a vague word but its all I have.

[Xath]

so I'm finally getting around to listening to the books (original recording - wait times at the library were kinda obscene for them, and at the moment I don't have time to read books THAT size) and I actualy can see where Rafe got some of his changes. it shows that he was paying some, though not enough attention. (for instance Lewes was genuinely not the first of the reborn persona that fought with the dark one and books make it clear in a prologue of the first book - he's just the first to get actualy named a Dragon and the one who got Saidin corrupted through his hubris). other changes are just... dude... WHY? I mean I get it, it takes Jordan forever to get through anything, and you had to make it fit into a set number of episodes, but at the same time us not meeting Thom in a first episode is a damn shame. Every major player converging into Two Rivers at the same time makes so much more sense then meeting him for the first time by what appears to be an accident. I really would rather Rafe kept the scene with Thom, Morraine, Rand and Mat instead of adding the scene with Egwene getting her braid. that scene was kinda dumb tbh, meanwhile Thom and Morraine tip toeing around each other in the book had me cackle with glee.

amusingly so far every single character I can see as their show counterparts... except for Morraine. its not the height, its just.. vibe is such a vague word but its all I have.

Very few of the show characters are anywhere near Jordan's characters in feel they are largely missing the humanizing aspects. Lews didn't get Saidin corrupted through hubris it was corrupted because the tower disagreed on how to deal with the situation which caused a rift and when the time came that something absolutely had to be done no woman was willing to join with the 100 companions to seal the prison. The backlash tainted saidin if it had been both it's possible both could have ended up tainted. Pretty much every change made makes the story worse what's impressive is the original draft that got the series greenlit is arguably even worse.

[Witchblade77]

Very few of the show characters are anywhere near Jordan's characters in feel they are largely missing the humanizing aspects. Lews didn't get Saidin corrupted through hubris it was corrupted because the tower disagreed on how to deal with the situation which caused a rift and when the time came that something absolutely had to be done no woman was willing to join with the 100 companions to seal the prison. The backlash tainted saidin if it had been both it's possible both could have ended up tainted. Pretty much every change made makes the story worse what's impressive is the original draft that got the series greenlit is arguably even worse.

listen. you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just saying that when characters show up in a narrative, so far all but Moiraine show up in my minds eye looking like their show counterparts. I'm saying that I like show's casting choices for the most part and the actors themselves I doing a good job IMO feeling like the characters they are portraying (narratives they are given I sometimes question cough Layla and that damn love triangle" but the acting itself? works for me), and I even understand why they would chose to condense some of the narrative beats, because holy hell things take FOREVER to happen in a book. Some of it is just descriptions of the characters or the world, but some of it works in a book to give you more of a feel of the world, but would just feel like a slog in a TV show. heck it almost feels like a slog in the book as well.

[rhorle]

that damn love triangle"

It is subtle in the books but the show just gave the sub-plot a larger focus and did it in a more direct way. It likely would have worked better if Perrin never had a wife and if it was done earlier in the show. I added spoiler tags in after the fact because I remembered you said you just started the audio book. The stuff isn't much of a spoiler since it is more general or not important to the story over all but they don't happen on the show.

Egwene was accused of staring at him even though everyone in the village talked about her and rand getting married when old enough. And Perrin does express that his feelings could be a little complicated towards Egwene when talking to Eylas. He says he loves her but not like that, not like a sister either, and Rand and her are a thing anyways. There are some that say Matt even had a crush on Egwene but that feeling in Perrin and Matt fade as they get exposed to more outside the Two Rivers and was never something they would act on because of Rand being their bestie

[Shadowferal]

It is subtle in the books

That really shows you never touched the books, let alone read the books.

[Orby]

listen. you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just saying that when characters show up in a narrative, so far all but Moiraine show up in my minds eye looking like their show counterparts. I'm saying that I like show's casting choices for the most part and the actors themselves I doing a good job IMO feeling like the characters they are portraying (narratives they are given I sometimes question cough Layla and that damn love triangle" but the acting itself? works for me), and I even understand why they would chose to condense some of the narrative beats, because holy hell things take FOREVER to happen in a book. Some of it is just descriptions of the characters or the world, but some of it works in a book to give you more of a feel of the world, but would just feel like a slog in a TV show. heck it almost feels like a slog in the book as well.

I agree about casting. I think the casting in the show was fine, and he actors did well with what they were given. Unfortunately the show rushes needlessly fast through the first book that a lot of the character development and notable plot points are missed. also they need to sort out the look of Loial by the second season, retcon that abomination, he looks like a reject from The Wiz musical

I just wish that with only 8 episodes they did half of the first book, there was no way they were going to get Eye of the World into eight 1 hour episodes. They needed at least maybe 12. Maybe 14. The first 10 chapters being 1 episode in the show was fine. Because no one wants to wait that long to get to the trolloc attack. and with alot of the exposition cut you can easily get those first 10 chapter in.

I mean they skipped the whole Baerlon city part and by the second episode were at Shadar Logoth which I felt happened way too fast. I think episode 2 could have been the journey to Taren Ferry to the arrival at Baerlon, with two episodes for Baerlon and the episode after that being Shadar Logoth which would had Shadar Logoth be on episode 5 if they were allowed more episodes. But alas with only 8 episodes it sucks that things were as they were. I am hoping the Great Hunt is more smoothly paced otherwise I wont be continuing to watch. The show sacrifices so much to fit everything into one season.

[rhorle]

That really shows you never touched the books, let alone read the books.

Oh look a false accusation because you think you are some expert even though you don't remember the books correctly.

Spoiler: 

Egwene never dragged her feet in her life," he protested. "She always does her share. I don't despise her, I love her." He glared at Elyas, daring him to laugh. "Not like that. I mean, she isn't like a sister, but she and Rand ... Blood and ashes! If the ravens caught us ... If ... I don't know. "

The topic was mercy killing Egwene but it still shows mixed feelings.

"Perrin, of course. Why were you staring at him? Everybody says you'll marry Rand al'Thor. When you're older, I mean, and have your hair in a braid."

"What do you mean, everybody says?" Egwene said dangerously, but Adora just giggled. It was exasperating. Nothing was working the way it should today.

"Perrin is pretty, of course. At least, I've heard lots of girls say so. And lots of girls look at him, just like you and Cilia."

Egwene blinked and managed to put that last out of her head. She had not been looking at him anything at all the way Cilia had! But, Perrin, pretty? Perrin? She looked over her shoulder to see whether she could find pretty in him.

I found the full text. While she denies it was anything romantic it is still something that is subtly hinted at from the books. It of course goes nowhere but it is still there. It is from the "Earlier-ravens" prologue that was added when they split Eye of the World up into separate volumes.

[Shadowferal]

Oh look a false accusation because you think you are some expert even though you don't remember the books correctly.

Spoiler: 

The topic was mercy killing Egwene but it still shows mixed feelings. I found the full text. While she denies it was anything romantic it is still something that is subtly hinted at from the books. It of course goes nowhere but it is still there. It is from the "Earlier-ravens" prologue that was added when they split Eye of the World up into separate volumes.

Oh please. She was mentioned once in the original books (not the added-come-lately that you Wikipedia'd).

And it wasn't the first book, nor the 2nd...or even the third.
Shadow Rising; Chapter 32 (4th book)

Perrin looked past the stout, smiling woman; then his head whipped back. When he had left the Two Rivers, Laila Dearn had been a slim girl who could dance any three boys into the ground. Only the smile and the eyes were the same. He shivered. There had been a time when he had dreamed of marrying Laila, and she had returned the feeling somewhat. The truth was, she had held on to it longer than he had. Luckily, she was too entranced with her baby and the even wider fellow by her side to pay much attention to him. Perrin recognized the man with her, too. Natley Lewin. So Laila was a Lewin now. Odd. Nat never could dance. Thanking the Light for his escape, Perrin looked around for Faile.

[rhorle]

Oh please. She was mentioned once in the original books (not the added-come-lately that you Wikipedia'd). [/i]

It is still part of the official lore of the story. Just because different editions didn't contain it doesn't stop it from being part of the story. There are also glossary changes that were changed as well that according to you wouldn't be mentioned in the "original books" even though the fixes are accurate to what the Author wanted and intended.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with saying it is the 4th book since the thing you quote has nothing to do with the two things I referenced or even reference anything mentioned.

[Mazza]

I agree about casting. I think the casting in the show was fine, and he actors did well with what they were given. Unfortunately the show rushes needlessly fast through the first book that a lot of the character development and notable plot points are missed. also they need to sort out the look of Loial by the second season, retcon that abomination, he looks like a reject from The Wiz musical

I just wish that with only 8 episodes they did half of the first book, there was no way they were going to get Eye of the World into eight 1 hour episodes. They needed at least maybe 12. Maybe 14. The first 10 chapters being 1 episode in the show was fine. Because no one wants to wait that long to get to the trolloc attack. and with alot of the exposition cut you can easily get those first 10 chapter in.

I mean they skipped the whole Baerlon city part and by the second episode were at Shadar Logoth which I felt happened way too fast. I think episode 2 could have been the journey to Taren Ferry to the arrival at Baerlon, with two episodes for Baerlon and the episode after that being Shadar Logoth which would had Shadar Logoth be on episode 5 if they were allowed more episodes. But alas with only 8 episodes it sucks that things were as they were. I am hoping the Great Hunt is more smoothly paced otherwise I wont be continuing to watch. The show sacrifices so much to fit everything into one season.

The thing that still baffles me is that when the constraint of 8 episodes was known, they still ADDED stuff that did nothing to enhance the narrative, like the Steffen arc. I would trade those bits for more important stuff that was actually cut (so far), like Caemlyn, in a heartbeat.

[Rennadrel]

Literally gutting Caemlyn out suggests that there will be zero character development between Rand and Elayne, because ya know, reasons. They've molested Rand's whole character and story arc so badly that it's not even in the same bloody galaxy as the books. Anyone who watches the show and then reads the books is going to be thoroughly surprised and maybe even annoyed that the narrative is not what they thought.

[Aphrel]

It's tricky to weave, but saying that you're not interested in appealing to the hardcore fans of the books is pretty dumb. LOTR made changes but the overall story stayed the same. Here's how Rafe Judkins would have done Lord of the Rings:

Episode 1: Rosie Cotton POV. Bilbo Baggins is throwing a big obnoxious party and pisses everyone off by disappearing. Sam is drunk and puking, so Rosie brings him home. What can she do? You can't find any better men.

Episode 2: Rosie discovers that Frodo is going mad from the one ring. Lady Galadriel arrives and tells Rosie she has to bring Frodo and Sam to Mount Doom. She leaves behind Gandalf, a wizard who is always high from smoking too much weed, to help them on the journey.

Episode 3: The hobbits are helpless in the wild, but Rosie gets things in order. She makes a camp, she hunts for food, and she even gets Gandalf to give up pot after she hits him several times with a walking stick. There's some debate about which way to go, and they listen to Frodo and end up attacked by Black Riders. Gandalf, finally sober, keeps them off. They all decide to follow Rosie from now on.

Episode 4: Love triangle, Sam and Frodo fighting over Rosie attracts more Black Riders, and they barely make it to Rivendell where they are saved by Arwen.

Episode 5: New Fellowship of the Ring: Legolas is a female, Arwen takes Aragorn's place, Rosie obviously involved. Off to Moria.

Episode 6: In Moria. Pippen makes too much noise, attracting the Balrog. Gandalf is knocked off a bridge, but Rosie saves them. It turns out that Elrond gave Rosie his ring of power and she uses it to defeat the Balrog.

Episode 7: Galadriel. Don't have to change this part much.

Episode 8: Boromir and Frodo both go mad and start fighting over the ring. Rosie, after fighting off several hundred Orcs, kills Boromir (good riddance, he's a man), then uses her ring to cure Frodo of his madness. Arwen goes off to win the battles of the two towers while Rosie brings Sam and Frodo towards Mount Doom.

There would be two more seasons, the last one ending with Frodo and Sam both going completely mad and Rosie throwing them both into Mount Doom then passionately making out with Arwen after they reunite over the ruins of Barad-dur.

The most insane part by all of this is that this is isnt even an exaggerated comparision to the current wot shitshow^^

[Xath]

listen. you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just saying that when characters show up in a narrative, so far all but Moiraine show up in my minds eye looking like their show counterparts. I'm saying that I like show's casting choices for the most part and the actors themselves I doing a good job IMO feeling like the characters they are portraying (narratives they are given I sometimes question cough Layla and that damn love triangle" but the acting itself? works for me), and I even understand why they would chose to condense some of the narrative beats, because holy hell things take FOREVER to happen in a book. Some of it is just descriptions of the characters or the world, but some of it works in a book to give you more of a feel of the world, but would just feel like a slog in a TV show. heck it almost feels like a slog in the book as well.

Yes the books that constantly remarked on people being fascinated by different hair colors or even eye color let alone skin tone definitely should have an NYC level or multi ethnicity in a tiny backwater village on the edge of forever. If everyone besides Rand looked similar including secondary cast it would be semi acceptable but they don't. Even Rand is only supposed to stand out for his hair height and eyes. His skin tone isn't even remarked on until Elaida raises his shirt sleeve to reveal untanned skin. Aka he has a farmers tan just like the others he isn't meant to be pasty white. The casting is almost as bad as the changes made to story. Min is one of the worst castings basically ever. She is supposed to be a couple years older not decades and she's pretty clearly not described as Asian but hey her name is Min so rafe casts her as Asian which is definitely not racist at all. Same with Lan. The cultures in wheel became super jumbled because of the breaking. Shienar for example is largely EU racial appearance possibly Spain but heavy heavy Japanese cultural influences. The only super mixed culture is the Seanchan because they absorbed conquered groups and the original group sent was when the land was united under Hawkwing. Rand coming starts to break those barriers Tam marrying an outlander was a huge deal in TR in the book version. In the show version that makes no sense because the various races are already smashed together in a tiny village with no outside contact. Part of the thing that makes it obvious the Dragon had come is all the various groups start coming together rather than staying split apart.

[Orby]

The thing that still baffles me is that when the constraint of 8 episodes was known, they still ADDED stuff that did nothing to enhance the narrative, like the Steffen arc. I would trade those bits for more important stuff that was actually cut (so far), like Caemlyn, in a heartbeat.

That's the only thing about the series I really couldn't get past. Nothing else really bothered me (except for some reason the effects got worse towards the end of the series, but I digress. Also Loial. poor poor Loial, what did they do to you? lol.

I will give season 2 another chance, and put the first season down to first season blues. Hopefully with a second season their budget has increased and are given more freedom for more episodes. Once again I would struggle to even put book 2 into eight episodes. So I hope they let season 2 breath more.

[Adam Jensen]

Christ.

I just saw the first episode and I can't get over how bad this shit was.

[bledgor]

Christ.

I just saw the first episode and I can't get over how bad this shit was.

IT gets worse, much much much worse.

[Smallfruitbat]

Christ.

I just saw the first episode and I can't get over how bad this shit was.

I would stop there, the show runners plumb new depths of trash as it goes on.

[Orby]

Christ.

I just saw the first episode and I can't get over how bad this shit was.

yea doesn't getting better. episode 1 is really the peak :P

[Celement]

To be honest they would of had a far better shot at telling a compelling story if they simply set it in the universe. The wheel of time is so heavy on inner dialogues I can't see any plausible way to covert that into another media without it just be inner monologues the tv series.