Have you noticed how many people hate the very game they play?

[Grax]

Except that isn't what Blizzard wants. I think Blizzard would rather these players just fucked off instead of clogging up every feedback thread with 10,000,000,000 IQ suggestions like, "just make WotLK again." These people desperately clinging onto the retail version of this game like it'll somehow magically return to whatever random version of the game they've idealized in their minds are the worst aspect of the community. <br>
<br>
The other thing that I always find funny about WoW is how players seem to think that it's WoW's job to deliver every gaming experience imaginable all at once. It can't just be a MMO. It has to be a MMO, a single player experience, a dungeon grinding experience, a raiding experience, a {insert any game mode from any other game that's ever existed here} experience... and it has to be the best fucking experience that's ever existed otherwise Blizzard clearly just hates its customers. I don't envy WoW developers at all because they have to sift through layers and layers of pointless feedback from people who do not or cannot separate their desire to play a video game with their desire to play WoW and only WoW.

Except that the largest single reason why players seem to think that it's WoW's job to deliver every gaming experience imaginable all at once is because WoW has tried to deliver every gaming experience imaginable all at once. That's why we have normal, heroic, and mythic+ dungeons; LFR, normal, heroic, and mythic raids; rated arenas and battlegrounds; pet battles, world quests, streamlined talents and swappable specs, the WoW token, et al. Not all of which is "bad" taken alone, but does serve to separate players into distinct, highly-directed content silos, which I think isn't good.

[Skildar]

I don't know if you miss something about how it already works, because that feature is already in the game.

If you fail a 15-level key: you still get the same gear if you won in the vault so you don't need a change.

- - - Updated - - -



Youtubers don't create the sentiment, they only monetize it, and concentrate the people already having it.

I was not solely talking about youtubers but also bout the people putting thumbs down and shitting on the game in the comments
same goes for all the haters spewing their toxicity on reddit, etc.

[Arai]

I don't know if you miss something about how it already works, because that feature is already in the game.

If you fail a 15-level key: you still get the same gear if you won in the vault so you don't need a change.

Well no because your key gets depleted.

[epigramx]

Well no because your key gets depleted.

It went at that level because you upgraded. So you effectively want to set any difficulty you want.

That probably would lead to not using m+ entirely and have only a "m15" drop-down choice.

[Arai]

It went at that level because you upgraded. So you effectively want to set any difficulty you want.

That probably would lead to not using m+ entirely and have only a "m15" drop-down choice.

There are many ways to fix this. Raids dont need those artifical timers, if blizzard wants to they could do the same with Dungeons by designing them a bit differently.
You still have to get your key up there and like i said there are other ways to design this system. If it has to be reduce the ilvl for a 15+ Dungeon.

The m15 drop down choice is already in the game. Its called boosting mate.

Also if you aren't geared properly or play properly you will definitely not finish a 15 Dungeon even without a timer since you can't get past bosses. Also return of investment on time.

Btw remember the 1h try on Algalon? Or the 30 tries max on Lich King? It sucked for a reason and got removed for a reason.

Edit: I wouldn't care a bit about M+ if there was a challenging and engaging gearing choice for solo players but there isn't. Right now you have to get M+ gear to get into raids.

[Athorha]

I keep reading:

1. "I can't wait for the tier set protection system", " I can't wait for double leggo", "I can't wait for when it's easy" (in general)

2. "Phew we're done with this tier", "it was so painful", "I'm not pulling this boss again!".

3. "that was a much needed vacation from the game"

maybe you don't want to play.

Most people don't smile much when they play video games. Some people need to move on from video games / get over the fact that certain content (especially in rpgs) are tiresome when you've been playing games for decades. It doesn't mean the content is dated, slow... however they want to spin it, just that it's catering towards the new generation of gamers who haven't been doing the same thing for 15 years.

People call wow grindy, takes too long to catchup, you can literally start a new character and be in sepulcher normal modes in less than 2 days played, probably less than one if you have friends help do a mythic tour at 60.

Some people want to log in, press two buttons, never question their strategy and say to themselves "today was a good day". The only reason they enjoy wow is because there is no metric telling them they suck, because they avoid rated content and make up excuses as to why its not up to their supreme intellect

[Ghost of Cow]

Sometimes I hate the game, sometimes I don't. I just avoid the content I hate or take a break from the game as a whole.

Basically, yep.

Not sure why people make a bigger issue out of this than it is.

[Dhrizzle]

My favourite WoW-haters are the ones with ex-girlfriend (or ex-boyfriend) syndrome who claim to despise WoW then start playing a game that is almost exactly the same and can't shut up about how the almost-identical feature in their new game is so much better than anything WoW has ever had and isn't it bad how WoW does X when new game will do x and...

I'd say RIFT players were worst for that because the game and its marketing were so obviously going after ex-WoW players.

[Tyris Flare]

It gets used more and more often, but "I love the game, I just want it to be great!" is a bit of a cheap deflection with regards to OP's point and the larger conversation. Having liked some previous iteration of the game--potentially an iteration that hasn't existed for more than a decade at this point--doesn't mean you don't currently hate the game, and so also doesn't mean you're not actively choosing to play a game you hate and complaining about how much you hate it.

Likewise, "I care about the game" is something close to virtue signaling, what you care about isn't "the game" but rather your enjoyment of the game, that is, whether it appeals directly to you; which is fine or even to be expected really, but it sounds a lot nicer and more altruistic to claim it's about "care for the game" than "what you want. It becomes pretty obvious this is the case when many of the people using the phrase "care about the game" are also the same people who will shit talk anyone enjoying modern iterations of it.

Which isn't to say that there isn't valid criticism (nor did I say this anywhere) but merely to point out that these two sorts of phrases are very often, or even most often, just used to attempt to pass off someone actively choosing to do something they don't like and then complaining about having done it as some sort of noble suffering for the greater good.

At some point you have to take some personal responsibility and realize that spending 10 years playing a game you don't enjoy playing (regardless of it you enjoyed it 15 years ago) is a pretty dumb thing to do--and that obsessing over it not being something you enjoy anymore for years, or even worse, getting angry that other people still enjoy playing it is, at best, immature, and at worst seriously unhealthy.

People really need to learn to let go and find something else the do enjoy.

Really good post.

[Kumorii]

I'd say you have a warped view if you claim you hate on a game because you love it and want to be improved. That's not healthy... In any context.

[Soikona]

My favourite WoW-haters are the ones with ex-girlfriend (or ex-boyfriend) syndrome who claim to despise WoW then start playing a game that is almost exactly the same and can't shut up about how the almost-identical feature in their new game is so much better than anything WoW has ever had and isn't it bad how WoW does X when new game will do x and...

I'd say RIFT players were worst for that because the game and its marketing were so obviously going after ex-WoW players.

Tbf, rift had a lot of potential. Great class system and fun open world content!

[epigramx]

There are many ways to fix this. Raids dont need those artifical timers, if blizzard wants to they could do the same with Dungeons by designing them a bit differently.
You still have to get your key up there and like i said there are other ways to design this system. If it has to be reduce the ilvl for a 15+ Dungeon.

The m15 drop down choice is already in the game. Its called boosting mate.

Also if you aren't geared properly or play properly you will definitely not finish a 15 Dungeon even without a timer since you can't get past bosses. Also return of investment on time.

Btw remember the 1h try on Algalon? Or the 30 tries max on Lich King? It sucked for a reason and got removed for a reason.

Edit: I wouldn't care a bit about M+ if there was a challenging and engaging gearing choice for solo players but there isn't. Right now you have to get M+ gear to get into raids.

There's a basic error in your assumptions regarding the gameplay. Level 15 is extremely easier than Level 15 timed.

So in order to give the same rewards with a new untimed gametype: they would have to do it at level 18 or 20.

- - - Updated - - -

Most people don't smile much when they play video games. Some people need to move on from video games / get over the fact that certain content (especially in rpgs) are tiresome when you've been playing games for decades. It doesn't mean the content is dated, slow... however they want to spin it, just that it's catering towards the new generation of gamers who haven't been doing the same thing for 15 years.

People call wow grindy, takes too long to catchup, you can literally start a new character and be in sepulcher normal modes in less than 2 days played, probably less than one if you have friends help do a mythic tour at 60.

Some people want to log in, press two buttons, never question their strategy and say to themselves "today was a good day". The only reason they enjoy wow is because there is no metric telling them they suck, because they avoid rated content and make up excuses as to why its not up to their supreme intellect

You downplay the level of grinding needed to do end-game if you are competitive.

You will waste weeks on a new account to compete for a spot in a hard core raid.

You will waste weeks on a new account to go back at your >2500 m+ rating.

[Arai]

There's a basic error in your assumptions regarding the gameplay. Level 15 is extremely easier than Level 15 timed.

So in order to give the same rewards with a new untimed gametype: they would have to do it at level 18 or 20.

Which is the reason why i said it needs to be done differently. Fact is the existing system is toxic and doesn't work for the majority of the player base. I could figure something out how to make it work 10x better than currently without that arbitrary timer system but im not gonna sit here and work it out for 10-20 hours since im not being payed to do that. Thats blizzards job.
Maybe acknowledge its a problem or you look like a blizz boot licker.

[epigramx]

Which is the reason why i said it needs to be done differently. Fact is the existing system is toxic and doesn't work for the majority of the player base. I could figure something out how to make it work 10x better than currently without that arbitrary timer system but im not gonna sit here and work it out for 10-20 hours since im not being payed to do that. Thats blizzards job.
Maybe acknowledge its a problem or you look like a blizz boot licker.

It's not toxic if you like it, and stop playing when you don't like it. E.g. I found it fine up to ~20 in s2; then I realized I have to respec and change covenant to not feel like a nerfed bitch; so I had decided to never do more than 20 again (possibly even if they make my spec OP because it's proven the whole gametype is an imbalanced piece of shit that favors a handful of specs because it's too small in size).

[Osperand]

Tbf, rift had a lot of potential. Great class system and fun open world content!

Yes i enjoyed Rift,

I played WoW on and off for 15 years or so, last few years were not because i was enjoying the game, but just that i had so much of my life invested in it, was very hard to walk away from. I think though that leaving WoW was the best thing I did (for me personally). Since i stopped playing WoW i realised just how many great games i missed out on playing and then had a blast playing them all.

I think WoW will go on for quite a while as still plenty of people paying the monthly sub and spending in the cash shop. All things end though, i would love to see a proper WoW 2.0 with improvements.

I am having a blast playing lost ark at the minute, not spent a penny on it and tons of stuff to do while slowly levelling my gear. I would just say variety is the spice of life, too much of one thing is not healthy.

[erifwodahs]

So if I want tiers and double legendary items faster because I love pushing keys, that makes me hate the game? Do you even use brain?

[epigramx]

Yes i enjoyed Rift,

I played WoW on and off for 15 years or so, last few years were not because i was enjoying the game, but just that i had so much of my life invested in it, was very hard to walk away from. I think though that leaving WoW was the best thing I did (for me personally). Since i stopped playing WoW i realised just how many great games i missed out on playing and then had a blast playing them all.

I think WoW will go on for quite a while as still plenty of people paying the monthly sub and spending in the cash shop. All things end though, i would love to see a proper WoW 2.0 with improvements.

I am having a blast playing lost ark at the minute, not spent a penny on it and tons of stuff to do while slowly levelling my gear. I would just say variety is the spice of life, too much of one thing is not healthy.

They'll never kill wow and they'll never make wow 2. The most that will happen which approaches that is rebranding it and reshaping the world cata-style and changing the technical nature of its installation.

E.g. something smart they could do is to erase any notion of "Expansion" and just sell it as "Warcraft" because new users ain't got no time figuring out what those 99 expansions even mean.

[erifwodahs]

It's not toxic if you like it, and stop playing when you don't like it. E.g. I found it fine up to ~20 in s2; then I realized I have to respec and change covenant to not feel like a nerfed bitch; so I had decided to never do more than 20 again (possibly even if they make my spec OP because it's proven the whole gametype is an imbalanced piece of shit that favors a handful of specs because it's too small in size).

you sound like you hate this game, using your logic

[epigramx]

you sound like you hate this game, using your logic

No, because the OP is about PLAYING parts of the game and hating them.

I said on what you quoted that I had decided to not play >20 m+ at all.

[Mentaldemise]

In regards to the OP, I've been around the Warcraft/Starcraft franchise for over 20 years now, a lot of my big moments in my life all had 1 thing in common, I was playing WoW at the time, so of course, I'll always have that soft spot in my heart for the game, however, the past 5 years of warcraft have just been an absolute train wreck in almost every way and it doesn't seem to be getting better.

To put it into a metaphor, imagine having a really close friend that you've known for a large portion of your life, only for them to start smoking meth and being a menace to everyone, that's essentially what warcraft is at the moment to a lot of people where they remember all the good times and hope that'll get on the straight and narrow again and you can be friends with them again, but atm all you really can do is criticize them.

Having people angry at the game means that people still care about it, when these forums begin to go silent, that's when you should worry about what people think about warcraft.