Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Celestian]

One of the things I found quite funny when trying it was when I cleared a dungeon for the first time my REWARD is a discount bundle in the shop. My reward for clearing a dungeon is the opportunity to spend money. Oh but at a discount, ya know cus they want you to be used to spending money early. Even if it's just a little. Get that taste.

From what I briefly saw of the game and the videos I have seen of others playing Blizzard has doubled down on every predatory, disgusting behaviour that P2W games have. The mental tricks of luring people in with rewards, dailies, small free tastes of what it'd be play to spend money, cheap 1-time only bundles to get you into spending just a little to get the ball rolling, every penny spent is some form of gambling mechanic to get those gambling addicts hooked etc. etc... Every mechanic in the game, every prompt, every action is designed with trying to get the player to spend money ahead of anything else.

Diablo Immortal is everything bad about current-gen games, games whos mechanics are more focused on mental warefare with the player to make as much money as possible and it saddens me than the company and game at the forefront of all these disgusting behavours is both the company and game series that I once loved.

I understand companies exist to make money, but that doesn't excuse disgusting behaviour and these predatory mechanics are exactly that. I just want game companies to be about making good games again. People should spend money on your game because your game is good and they want to support it, not because they was coaxed into spending it.

I couldn't agree more.
All of this makes the real game quite meta. Since the real feat is not beating the odds within this game but to withstand the temptation to pay them real money outside of this game. It's a character-test. And Blizzard has tried hard to deliver an end-boss in this regard.

[rhorle]

I think the game itself is fine. $15 for a battlepass, $10/mo for the "premium" access (premium daily rewards). So long as you arent busting a load in the shop, I don't see why $60 for three months worth of game is such a bad proposition.

It is a little confusing but you can buy the battle pass for $5. The $15 one is a collector edition that gives you a few extra cosmetics.

[Jotaux]

Most free games give you a chance to double your reward after completing a level or w/e. I don't really see an issue with it. The only money I've spent is on the battle pass and I don't plan on paying beyond that. My friends and I are having fun and we've spent like $5 each. If they start gating content behind adds or money then I won't play anymore.

[- Zephox -]

The game is illegal in Belgium and the Netherlands because those countries do consider the business model predatory and unethical.

Allow me to correct you there. Game is not illegal as tons of other gatcha games exist in both countries and Fifa etc exists and tons of other games like Clash Royale, Clash of clans etc.
Blizzard didn't want to release probability information on items from lootboxes hence game not available. If they decide tomorrow to release that information over how much percent chance there's for epic, legendary etc items game will be live here within an hour.

The laws passed clearly mention there has to be that information for games to be available should they have gatcha mechanics purely for gambling addicts.

To add as well, loot boxes or whatever could be allowed with no issue as long as items or stuff received can't be exchanged/transferred from one player to another as that opens the huge black market issue where everyone argued about

[exochaft]

Doesn't that mean that the subscription to a game like WoW is gambling? You put in money in the hopes to get something back We all play games for some reason. Some want to pay to get their way, others want to grind and earn it. There is a reason why Game Genie, Game Shark, and other devices were bought back in the day. People want shortcuts and are willing to pay.

The difference is the subscription is paying for access to the entire game, what D:Immortal is doing is quite different. The way the loot drops work in conjunction with the currency you purchase is just gambling with an extra step in the middle. It's the difference between gambling online slots versus gambling slots at an actual casino: one has the extra step of going to the casino while the other is instantly available, but they're both gambling. Similar to slots, it's quite possible to spend a ton of money in D:Immortal and end up in the same state you were if you didn't spend money at all. This is why the estimates for how much money required to guarantee benefits are so insanely high for D:Immortal, as what you're guaranteed could be worthless. This gets compounded that it's pretty much impossible to proceed past a certain place in the game unless you spend money, so not only are you gambling but also paying for access to aspects of the game. Guess you could spin that and say you're getting more bang for your buck at that point? However, it's not this gambling system itself that's the sole issue, it's that there's tons of other MTX schemes going on within the game on top of gambling.

While some people are saying many other games are worse when it comes to MTX, I think that's incorrect. The way I'd phrase this is that D:Immortal is less overt (and even a bit more slick) about how they weave in the MTX, using quite a few methods to do it without sending up the warning flags other games do. The end result is that people perceived there's less monetization schemes going on when the opposite is true.

It's quite sad because the base game is pretty solid, and there are tons of worse games who do the MTX models better. The game reeks of NetEase, and the whole game experience is worse off for it. Many people probably won't see it because the game is so new and they haven't delved far into the game, but as the beta testers will tell you who played through to the end-game... the worst part of the game is the MTX scheme.

[ArenaDk]

Bullshit once you beat the tutorial the game outright shows you a lootbox for $0.99 (The first hit is "free" system) and is like hey here is a discount. Then when u get to the main hub it shows it to you over and over if u want to do rift's. If you didn't see advertisements for it then you didn't play past the first 5 seconds.

You can enjoy the game and still criticize it but don't try to act like it isn't there.

My thoughts on Diablo Immortal. The gameplay is solid but all the daily, battlepass and MTX systems is fucken exhausting to deal with. Don't shove it in my face every 3 seconds. Honestly just play Diablo 2 Remastered or Diablo 3.

(uninstalled)

1 advertisement every few hours is not much in my book

[rhorle]

The difference is the subscription is paying for access to the entire game

But aren't you just paying to gamble with RNG for rewards? Also don't you get access to the entire game with Diablo Immortal? It is you can just pay to earn things faster. Also what point can't you proceed pass with out paying? No source of information about the monetization states that access to aspects of the game are not restricted by first having to pay. All you are doing is speeding up your odds of getting items or paying for perks like expanded inventory or other QoL stuff.

https://www.denofgeek.com/games/diab...ox-pay-to-win/

[Super Kami Dende]

Eh. I'm having fun so far. Nearly lvl 40. Haven't needed or even thought I needed to pay a cent yet. If I have enough Fun I don't mind dropping $50 on a F2P game. Since its what I'd drop on a normal game anyway.

[Zoibert the Bear]

ITT hordes of paypigs that have nothing better do do with their miserable lives than defending a company that actively profits from introducing kids to potentially adicting softcore gambling.

This game is banned in a few countries already, with a few more looking at this sort of predatory monetization more closely now. I sure hope more governments start cracking down on this disgusting warm pile of shit that Blizzard and their friends at Neteasy just shat out.

[Rad1um]

Is it Pay to win or Pay to make things easier?
If Theres a way to track if a player have bought anything beneficial with irl money, it would be possible to make a legit leaderboard.
Then i wouldnt mind that some players wanna Pay extra to shorten their game experience.

Did anyone stop to read this? F***ing beautiful and easy to implement.

Get 2 separate player-bases going, and add a function:

if player has purchased pay 2 win items they do not count towards main leaderboard, they'll be put in leaderboards that other paying 2 win players are aggregated. They could be rewarded for their hard work with more pay 2 win items.

Other database is reserved for people who played without paying and they are rewarded for their efforts with in game items that are not obtainable by pay 2 win players by simply implementing another function that wont let pay 2 win players see this gear/whatever else.

It'll keep the hardcore players happy, deter paying 2 win because you want that status and pay 2 win people could get more paid items for free and not be bitched at by the hardcore purists.

This is probably the best idea anyone has come up with. Shoutout Mojusk.

How this would work as far as teaming up goes? I have no idea. But im sure one of you smarties can figure it out because dividing them all completely would not be good in terms of cohesion.

[Jester Joe]

ITT hordes of paypigs that have nothing better do do with their miserable lives than defending a company that actively profits from introducing kids to potentially adicting softcore gambling.

This game is banned in a few countries already, with a few more looking at this sort of predatory monetization more closely now. I sure hope more governments start cracking down on this disgusting warm pile of shit that Blizzard and their friends at Neteasy just shat out.

I'm sure a Mature rated game is aimed at children.

[Lady Atia]

And you're everything wrong with gaming at the moment. Perfectly happy to keep shelling out money to unlock things an upfront cost gave you thr ability to unlock. Why not charge 20 for the game and remove all the HEAVY monetization?

Because people, such as yourself, are happily dropping money on crap like this.

The game wouldn't cost 20 bucks if they released it as a normal game. It's pretty much a diablo MMO, so the alternative to the current model would be that you would have to pay something like 45-60 dollars for the main game with a 10 dollar monthly subscription like WoW has. And honestly, I would rather prefer the Diablo Immortal model than the current WoW model, especially as I have two wow accounts lol.

But than again, I mean to play Diablo Immortal super casually just for cosmetics (which honestly, sadly isn't as good as the D3 version of transmog from what I saw so far) so the whole "get crests via the shop" thing isn't an issue for me, but I get that it may be a problem for others.

[Elim Garak]

Did anyone stop to read this? F***ing beautiful and easy to implement.

Get 2 separate player-bases going, and add a function:

if player has purchased pay 2 win items they do not count towards main leaderboard, they'll be put in leaderboards that other paying 2 win players are aggregated. They could be rewarded for their hard work with more pay 2 win items.

Other database is reserved for people who played without paying and they are rewarded for their efforts with in game items that are not obtainable by pay 2 win players by simply implementing another function that wont let pay 2 win players see this gear/whatever else.

It'll keep the hardcore players happy, deter paying 2 win because you want that status and pay 2 win people could get more paid items for free and not be bitched at by the hardcore purists.

This is probably the best idea anyone has come up with. Shoutout Mojusk.

How this would work as far as teaming up goes? I have no idea. But im sure one of you smarties can figure it out because dividing them all completely would not be good in terms of cohesion.

This is utopia because the free players are there to be the punchbags for the whales. Free players are the whales' content. It's the only way it can work. Nothing is "free". If you play for free - you get played. You are the product.

[Zoibert the Bear]

I'm sure a Mature rated game is aimed at children.

Are you serious? You can't be serious. Do you think "Only click here if you are 18+" buttons work in porn sites? I bet you do.

The monetization is still aggressive and predatory, so my point stands even if you want to get into technicalities. This game should burn.

[Elim Garak]

Are you serious? You can't be serious. Do you think "Only click here if you are 18+" buttons work in porn sites? I bet you do.

The monetization is still aggressive and predatory, so my point stands even if you want to get into technicalities. This game should burn.

You should be banned from internet because kids can get online

[Jester Joe]

Are you serious? You can't be serious. Do you think "Only click here if you are 18+" buttons work in porn sites? I bet you do.

The monetization is still aggressive and predatory, so my point stands even if you want to get into technicalities. This game should burn.

Are you saying porn sites are aimed at children then?

Or are you missing the point.

[Zoibert the Bear]

Are you saying porn sites are aimed at children then?

Or are you missing the point.

No, you seem to be ignoring my point which you replied to though. Let me break it down step by step and hopefully we can at least be on the same page even if you don't agree.

Port sites are obviously not aimed at children. This game is obviously not aimed at children.

Both of the things above cause real, tangible harm to young people. If you think otherwise, that's fine.

[Unholyground]

I think just to spite everyone shitting on the game like OP I am going to dump like 20 bucks on it to get the first few bundles and the battle pass. To be honest this as a free game has more value than WoW has at a 21$ a month subscription plus box price based on the last few major fumbles.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you serious? You can't be serious. Do you think "Only click here if you are 18+" buttons work in porn sites? I bet you do.

The monetization is still aggressive and predatory, so my point stands even if you want to get into technicalities. This game should burn.

If you are not monitoring what your children do and the content they consume you are a shitty parent period, no defending shitty parenting practices because parents are too lazy to properly engage with their crotch goblins. Don't want to do the work then don't have them.

[Jester Joe]

No, you seem to be ignoring my point which you replied to though. Let me break it down step by step and hopefully we can at least be on the same page even if you don't agree.

Port sites are obviously not aimed at children. This game is obviously not aimed at children.

Both of the things above cause real, tangible harm to young people. If you think otherwise, that's fine.

No, I'm not ignoring your point.

You originally said, and I quote, "ITT hordes of paypigs that have nothing better do do with their miserable lives than defending a company that actively profits from introducing kids to potentially adicting softcore gambling."

Nothing about this game is for introducing kids to gambling, because its not intended for kids. So it's weird to insult people just because they like the game and then criticize it for something it's not. Last I checked, its on parents to ensure their kids don't go on porn sites or play games they're not supposed to.

Just because someone enjoys the game despite flaws doesn't give you the right to ridicule them, and the attempt at a moral high ground in doing so what I'm pointing out is flawed.

[DStrukt]

well I just played it thought it was quite fun actually, but didnt want to play too much because its open beta... I dont want to replay the same again, will wait for launch. assuming its free, i will play this for sure