Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[Endus]

You don't provide "jack shit" either. If gun control worked, there would be evidence of such. There isn't.

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/111201...reviews-deaths
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/f...cy-evaluation/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...l-saves-lives/

You're right up there with people who read a "report" by Big Tobacco and think smoking's totes healthy for you.

You're only unaware of the evidence supporting gun control because you willfully and deliberately close your own eyes and stick with propaganda by the likes of the NRA.

Like I said if gun control worked, Then there would be a difference between states with "high" gun control and "low" gun control.

There is. Breccia linked it.

That's not the case. California has similar gun homicide per capita as Texas. Colorado similar to New Jersey. The GVA includes all cases of firearm related death, not only homicide. So here's my data. And those numbers are from the CDC.

Let's read what it actually says, then;

its gun-friendliness score, where 1 is the least gun-friendly and 5 is the most gun-friendly. This score is based on individual state laws regarding things like background checks, permit requirements, and open carry rules.

Linking that early because they made up this score and I want it to be clear what the numbers mean in the next quote;

The vast majority of states with the most gun homicides are states that score a 3 or higher for gun-friendliness, indicating that there may be a correlation. While Maryland, the state at the fifth position, received a gun-friendliness score of 1, their gun homicide rate is high because Baltimore is a city known for its problems with gun violence, including a high number of firearms charges. In 2019, Baltimore recorded 348 homicides, the second-highest number in the city’s history.

While some states with low firearm homicide rates have high gun-friendliness scores, this is likely to be because they are sparsely populated states with few to no major cities. Historically, violent crime tends to be lower in rural areas than in more populated metropolitan areas.

In short; your own source correlates lower levels of gun control (and thus, higher gun-friendlyness) with higher firearms homicide rates.

You didn't even bother to read your source, did you?

So far, your "evidence" boils down to "a map that just shows population distribution" and "a source that directly and overtly contradicts your claims". Not looking good for you, champ.

[Linkedblade]

Okay. Here's murders.



Wow, those two maps look awfully similar.

Now say you're sorry.

That's homicide, not firearm homicide. My post #1125 has the firearm homicide rates.

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https://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/111201...reviews-deaths
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/f...cy-evaluation/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...l-saves-lives/

You're right up there with people who read a "report" by Big Tobacco and think smoking's totes healthy for you.

You're only unaware of the evidence supporting gun control because you willfully and deliberately close your own eyes and stick with propaganda by the likes of the NRA.



There is. Breccia linked it.



Let's read what it actually says, then;

Linking that early because they made up this score and I want it to be clear what the numbers mean in the next quote;



In short; your own source correlates lower levels of gun control (and thus, higher gun-friendlyness) with higher firearms homicide rates.

You didn't even bother to read your source, did you?

So far, your "evidence" boils down to "a map that just shows population distribution" and "a source that directly and overtly contradicts your claims". Not looking good for you, champ.

The numbers are simply firearm deaths / population. The stars are subjective, but not necessarily wrong, but those don't magically change the numbers in any way.

Again why do states like CA and TX have similar firearm homicide rates, but drastically different firearm law. It's almost as if gun control doesn't work, or at the very least doesn't contribute in any meaningful way.

[Trifle]

In fact if you look over the form 4473, that you have to fill out before every firearm purchase via a dealer, question 11 hits all sorts of different information.

The qualifier is the important bit here, "via a dealer". It's somewhat irrelevant what disqualifies you from having a gun if you can just buy one in a private sale eg gun shows with no background check required (state dependent).

[Endus]

The numbers are simply firearm deaths / population. The stars are subjective, but not necessarily wrong, but those don't magically change the numbers in any way.

Dude, I have zero problems with the numbers in your source. Their "gun-friendliness" is subjective, but I have no reason to contest it methodologically.

The source directly contradicts you on what those numbers actually show.

Again why do states like CA and TX have similar firearm homicide rates, but drastically different firearm law. It's almost as if gun control doesn't work, or at the very least doesn't contribute in any meaningful way.

Or that it's not the only factor, and that cherry-picking specific examples is itself a demonstration of bad-faith dishonesty.

You have nothing to support your point. Your only actual source disagrees with your conclusions, and your claims about the data are objectively false, by your own source.

[Linkedblade]

The qualifier is the important bit here, "via a dealer". It's somewhat irrelevant what disqualifies you from having a gun if you can just buy one in a private sale eg gun shows with no background check required (state dependent).

Gun shows are dealer events. You still have to follow all of your home state's laws.

[Breccia]

That's homicide, not firearm homicide.

And you cherry picked. Because you're wrong.

[Trifle]

Gun shows are dealer events. You still have to follow all of your home state's laws.

There may be dealers at gun shows, but there are large amounts of private sellers. You obviously have to follow the state's laws, which is why I clarified it was state dependent... but roughly 30 states don't have any such laws, so it defaults to the federal laws. Which are that private sales don't need background checks.

[Linkedblade]

Dude, I have zero problems with the numbers in your source. Their "gun-friendliness" is subjective, but I have no reason to contest it methodologically.

The source directly contradicts you on what those numbers actually show.



Or that it's not the only factor, and that cherry-picking specific examples is itself a demonstration of bad-faith dishonesty.

You have nothing to support your point. Your only actual source disagrees with your conclusions, and your claims about the data are objectively false, by your own source.

Exactly, it's not the only factor. In fact when I mentioned other factors, in the mega-thread, you called me a bigot. You don't provide any sources and resort to ad hom, your assessment of faith is irrelevant.

I picked CA and TX because they happen to be the closest. I also said NJ and CO. I was trying to pick states with similar populations, and opposing laws. There isn't a correlation between gun control and gun homicide. Same for violent crime and gun control.

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And you cherry picked. Because you're wrong.

That's very similar to the one i posted. CA and TX are similar rates, with opposing laws. NJ and CO as well. In fact Louisianna has pretty average gun laws, but the highest rate of any of them.

[Breccia]

If you have to cherry pick to make your point, you don't have a point.

The South and its weak gun laws are still far darker than CA. And NYState is still better than all of them.

[Linkedblade]

There may be dealers at gun shows, but there are large amounts of private sellers. You obviously have to follow the state's laws, which is why I clarified it was state dependent... but roughly 30 states don't have any such laws, so it defaults to the federal laws. Which are that private sales don't need background checks.

No. You can't buy a gun in another state without it going through an FFL. That is the federal law.

[Breccia]

In fact Louisianna has pretty average gun laws, but the highest rate of any of them.

That's flat-out false. They're one of the worst in the country.

Mississippi is also quite far down there.

[D Luniz]

In a move that shocked no one(cept the maybe the "BOTH SIDES!!" people, assuming they arent as dishonest as the GOP is in all this)
the GOP is just trying to waste time to do the normal "Not a damn thing"

https://twitter.com/AndrewSolender/s...50546399428608

[Breccia]

Not everyone who is shot at, dies.



States with weak gun laws also see much higher firearm crime, including as shown robberies and assaults. It's not just homicides and gun deaths.

[Endus]

Exactly, it's not the only factor. In fact when I mentioned other factors, in the mega-thread, you called me a bigot. You don't provide any sources and resort to ad hom, your assessment of faith is irrelevant.

No, I said your phrasing implied bigotry. Usually, the rhetoric that calls to "demographics" is a dogwhistle for "more black people".

You clarified it wasn't that, but then your clarification was about a factor that wasn't even demographic in the first place.

I picked CA and TX because they happen to be the closest. I also said NJ and CO. I was trying to pick states with similar populations, and opposing laws. There isn't a correlation between gun control and gun homicide. Same for violent crime and gun control.

Your own source states otherwise.

You're lying. Openly and unashamedly.

[Breccia]

By the way, the training the Uvadle teachers got? Not helpful.

Texas teacher whose 11 students were killed says active shooting training set the children up 'like ducks' for the shooter

Reyes was teaching his fourth-grade class in room 111 at Robb Elementary School on the day a gunman burst into the school, and massacred 19 children and two adults.

He said his students were watching a movie after an end-of-year celebration when they heard gunshots. Reyes says he told the children to hide under the table and act like they were asleep. But the gunman burst into the room and opened fire, shooting Reyes twice and killing all of his students.

"We trained our kids to sit under the table, and that's what I thought at the time. But we set them up to be like ducks," a visibly upset Reyes said. "You can give us all the training you want, but laws have to change."

He said he "tried his best" with what he was told to do, and tearfully apologized to the families of his students.

Reyes told GMA that he felt "absolutely" abandoned by police that day and said there's "no excuse for their actions."

[Ivanstone]

No. You can't buy a gun in another state without it going through an FFL. That is the federal law.

You can buy a gun in another state with a stray purchaser. Gary, Indiana supplies a lot of the guns used in Chicago, Illinois. If it weren't for the state line they would be virtually the same city. Yes, a weapon transfer is illegal but just because its illegal doesn't lesson its availability. California's gun homicide rate is inflated because of Nevada gun sales.

A recent example of this is Kyle Rittenhouse illegally obtained a rifle with a straw purchaser. Mexican cartels frequently straw purchase weapons in vast numbers from neighbouring US states.

[Breccia]

The CDC has spoken on the topic.

But they're not the only one.

Over the 4-year study period, there were 121,084 firearm fatalities. The average state-based firearm fatality rates varied from a high of 17.9 (Louisiana) to a low of 2.9 (Hawaii) per 100,000 individuals per year. Annual firearm legislative strength scores ranged from 0 (Utah) to 24 (Massachusetts) of 28 possible points. States in the highest quartile of legislative strength (scores of ≥9) had a lower overall firearm fatality rate than those in the lowest quartile (scores of ≤2) (absolute rate difference, 6.64 deaths/100,000/y; age-adjusted incident rate ratio [IRR], 0.58; 95% CI, 0.37-0.92). Compared with the quartile of states with the fewest laws, the quartile with the most laws had a lower firearm suicide rate (absolute rate difference, 6.25 deaths/100,000/y; IRR, 0.63; 95% CI, 0.48-0.83) and a lower firearm homicide rate (absolute rate difference, 0.40 deaths/100,000/y; IRR, 0.60; 95% CI, 0.38-0.95).

That study does say they can't prove cause and effect, but they did demonstrate correllation. I suppose it could be coincidence that there was less gun death, gun assaults, gun robberies, and gun homicides in areas with stronger gun laws...but I don't believe it. In fact, I don't think anyone does.

[Linkedblade]

No, I said your phrasing implied bigotry. Usually, the rhetoric that calls to "demographics" is a dogwhistle for "more black people".

You clarified it wasn't that, but then your clarification was about a factor that wasn't even demographic in the first place.



Your own source states otherwise.

You're lying. Openly and unashamedly.

You're admitting to being racist. Gangs aren't just black people. Shame on you.

And here I did the work for you on the correlation coefficient between firearm homicide rates and gun friendliness: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing See? no meaningful relationship, at all.

[unfilteredJW]

You're admitting to being racist. Gangs aren't just black people. Shame on you.

Man, really fucking chasing that win.

[Linkedblade]

The CDC has spoken on the topic.

But they're not the only one.



That study does say they can't prove cause and effect, but they did demonstrate correllation. I suppose it could be coincidence that there was less gun death, gun assaults, gun robberies, and gun homicides in areas with stronger gun laws...but I don't believe it. In fact, I don't think anyone does.

But they're using the number of laws on the books against the rate, that is the second link. More laws doesn't necessarily mean more or less gun control.

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By the way, the training the Uvadle teachers got? Not helpful.

Texas teacher whose 11 students were killed says active shooting training set the children up 'like ducks' for the shooter

I dont know exactly what they were taught. I know most places teach ADD. Avoid, deny, defend. So pretty much run if you can, lock yourself away, and if you cant then find a weapon you defend yourself.

There's a few weird things about Uvalde, that I don't think well ever know the answers too. How did the guy get into the school? Most schools have man traps at all entrances.