Leaving M+ group should give you DESERTER

[lllll]

Generally speaking isn't a single person in your run.

If people, generally speaking, cared so much about their performance, you wouldn't run into those people at anywhere close to the frequency that we do currently.

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Doesn't throwing implies a will to do harm ?

If I was doing that kind of DPS I wouldn't even go into m+. I'd go to the training dummies, open up wowhead or go to a class discord and read up, sim myself and then stand at the dummies for hours until I pull acceptable damage. Acceptable damage meaning pulling numbers close to the sim DPS. Then I'd try it out in heroics and then from there go to m+ if it's acceptable.

[Jester Joe]

Ok, fair, so since this season rewards scale all the way up to 20s, does that mean that we (collectively) will be plagued by "bads" until we (M+ enthusiasts) break through the 20s key threshold then ?

Im skeptical about how many people will care to push just for ilvl once they get KSM which is still only 15s, no?

I could be wrong, but I am doubtful for how many will push that high just for the gear, and would rather just call it.

If people, generally speaking, cared so much about their performance, you wouldn't run into those people at anywhere close to the frequency that we do currently.

I'm confused by what you're trying to argue.

I can't say I encounter that many players who are genuinely terrible with to kill a key or make it not worth doing anymore.

[Zardas]

There's no way you're serious...

If you're doing tank DPS in anything higher than a 5, you're throwing. Intentional or not.

English is not my first language so my apologies if words don't have the exact same meaning as I think they have, but is there such things as a "unintentional throwing" ? Like, sorry that you have to learn it that way, but some people are just bad at the game, they don't purposefully do small dps. And they will forever stay bad at the game if people like you keep putting more and more blame on them being leaving them in their mistakes. Again, you too sounds like a League of Legends player, and that's definitely not a compliment.

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If I was doing that kind of DPS I wouldn't even go into m+. I'd go to the training dummies, open up wowhead or go to a class discord and read up, sim myself and then stand at the dummies for hours until I pull acceptable damage. Acceptable damage meaning pulling numbers close to the sim DPS. Then I'd try it out in heroics and then from there go to m+ if it's acceptable.

And you think that every player know the game enough to have such instinct ?

Also do you think that every player can improve that way ? There is a couple a old people in my guild that sure couldn't.

[lllll]

And you think that every player know the game enough to have such instinct ?

They shouldn't be in m+ if they're going to do less dps than a healer.

[Azharok]

English is not my first language so my apologies if words don't have the exact same meaning as I think they have, but is there such things as a "unintentional throwing" ? Like, sorry that you have to learn it that way, but some people are just bad at the game, they don't purposefully do small dps. And they will forever stay bad at the game if people like you keep putting more and more blame on them being leaving them in their mistakes. Again, you too sounds like a League of Legends player, and that's definitely not a compliment.

Ok, i'll humour you, if you've never stepped foot in M+ and don't know what a damage meter is. Fine you wouldn't know if you're doing good or bad.

I highly doubt that ANY player that interacts with the M+ system does not have some form of damage meter. Therefor, you can very clearly see your DPS ranking vs other people in the group and how you hold up against them. I'm not saying they are doing bad dps on purpose, I'm saying they KNOW they are doing bad dps : They are throwing.

As for the LoL player comparison. I honestly don't care what you think of me.

[Zardas]

They shouldn't be in m+ if they're going to do less dps than a healer.

And how do you want them to increase their dps if they don't have the reflex to go check their rotation and sim and can't go to m+ to meet people actually knowing it ?

I highly doubt that ANY player that interacts with the M+ system does not have some form of damage meter. Therefor, you can very clearly see your DPS ranking vs other people in the group and how you hold up against them. I'm not saying they are doing bad dps on purpose, I'm saying they KNOW they are doing bad dps : They are throwing..

First I can present you a few people I know who don't use any dps meter, and still m+.

Second does it means that if you just know that you are behind in terms of dps but would like to improve you are throwing ? Is this your definition of throwing ?

[lllll]

And how do you want them to increase their dps if they don't have the reflex to go check their rotation and sim and can't go to m+ to meet people actually knowing it ?

I don't care. I won't play with them.

[Zardas]

I don't care. I won't play with them.

Yup, that's the kind of behavior I would except from you after a few of your messages

[lllll]

Yup, that's the kind of behavior I would except from you after a few of your messages

I'm not going to sit around and coach every single player I encounter in the game that's pulling shit DPS. It's not tenable. It's beyond ridiculous to expect that others help the people that are pulling shit dps.

[Steelcryo]

Prepare for ninja key inserts?
What if I insert my HoA instead of leaders HoA? I hold everyone hostage? 10 minutes in really doesn't mean that I am going to waste 20 minutes more just because I wasted those 10 - it's like saying that if you watched 20minutes of some horrible movie you might as well finish it. No - that would be dumb af. Basically a definition of sunk cost fallacy.

Just add a confirmation about the key, like a ready check, before locking people in.

[Azharok]

And how do you want them to increase their dps if they don't have the reflex to go check their rotation and sim and can't go to m+ to meet people actually knowing it ?



First I can present you a few people I know who don't use any dps meter, and still m+.

Second does it means that if you just know that you are behind in terms of dps but would like to improve you are throwing ? Is this your definition of throwing ?

You're reaching for straws ...

1 - I don't believe you but it doesn't matter.

2 - There's being behind other dps, and there's being behind the tank while also having obscene ilvl for the key level. There's nothing wrong with being behind a tank if he clears Tree room in AA in one pull. But You'd expect a DPS player to be in front of the tank on pure ST fights. My definition of throwing is being the most geared player in a key and yet managing to be dead last DPS (behind tank). This isn't some hypothetical, I've seen it, multiple times.

[callipygoustp]

People, still, not aware of the information presented in raider.io.

[Zardas]

I'm not going to sit around and coach every single player I encounter in the game that's pulling shit DPS. It's not tenable. It's beyond ridiculous to expect that others help the people that are pulling shit dps.

Well, maybe you just don't have the strengh and patience to teach others. That's unfortunate, but I guess there is also be people like you ruining the experience of other people.

1 - I don't believe you but it doesn't matter.

Do you want to plan a discord reunion so that I can prove it ?

2 - There's being behind other dps, and there's being behind the tank while also having obscene ilvl for the key level. There's nothing wrong with being behind a tank if he clears Tree room in AA in one pull. But You'd expect a DPS player to be in front of the tank on pure ST fights. My definition of throwing is being the most geared player in a key and yet managing to be dead last DPS (behind tank). This isn't some hypothetical, I've seen it, multiple times.

You don't have to justify yourself mate, you can have the definition you want, I just wanted to clarify it so we are speaking about the same thing. So, I think I got your point, what I'm not understanding however is why you don't want these people to improve ?

[lllll]

Well, maybe you just don't have the strengh and patience to teach others. That's unfortunate, but I guess there is also be people like you ruining the experience of other people.

Do you realize how many people there are that are pulling shit dps? It's simply not tenable to coach someone doing shit dps until they can do acceptable dps. It requires hours, if not days to fix everything they're doing wrong and that's if they are willing to learn, which most people that kind of DPS are not.

[Zardas]

Do you realize how many people there are that are pulling shit dps? It's simply not tenable to coach someone doing shit dps until they can do acceptable dps.

Would you say that, in the average key, there is more people pulling shit dps than people not pulling shit dps ?

[lllll]

Would you say that, in the average key, there is more people pulling shit dps than people not pulling shit dps ?

Yes.

10chars

[Azharok]

Do you want to plan a discord reunion so that I can prove it ?

I mean sure why not, but i'd like to know what their io is and their average key lvl is (previous seasons also work i don't mind).

You don't have to justify yourself mate, you can have the definition you want, I just wanted to clarify it so we are speaking about the same thing. So, I think I got your point, what I'm not understanding however is why you don't want these people to improve ?

I don't remember saying I didn't want them to improve. The convo has been going on for a while now and I kinda lost track. You can quote where I said or implied it though.

[Zardas]

Yes.

10chars

That's just stupid, keys would never been timed if that was the case

I mean sure why not, but i'd like to know what their io is and their average key lvl is (previous seasons also work i don't mind).

Oh not a lot that's for sure, +5 at most. Don't know about their rio, I don't even use it myself.

I don't remember saying I didn't want them to improve. The convo has been going on for a while now and I kinda lost track. You can quote where I said or implied it though.

Didn't you said that you didn't mind quitting keys, leaving the other guys just full of shame without trying to help them ? Maybe I'm mixing with someone else, my apology if that's the case.

[thunderdragon2]

No kicking allowed. A person has to afk for 3.mins or remove themselves. Problem solved.

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Why? Bad group makers should be punished. If it's obvious that they key won't be done before you even start then a player has an obligation to the community to lower that key.

why would they INTENTIONALY drop some1s key by leaving when the key goes i?

[Tojara]

Still no. You made the group and if you didn't vet people enough or set expectations, nobody should be forced to do anything. Solo shuffle is different because it's random queue placement designed by Blizzard.

The only thing that should actively be done is just letting a key that isn't finished stay at the exact same level. That's a big part of the frustration. If your 17 vaults (or whatever) is bricked because somebody left on the second boss, there's no reason it should auto deplete to a 16. If you finish the run, sure. But it should lower the key upon FAILURE to time the key when finishing it, or on your own accord because you just want to run it at a lower level.