Read them as they came, never got that impression. You'd need to be more specific, but if that's the case - why so much hate toward caster hybrids.
Read them as they came, never got that impression. You'd need to be more specific, but if that's the case - why so much hate toward caster hybrids.
After being Medieve the Uberpally for many years, finally shelved in favor of Belledanna, the Uberlock!!! (patent pending)
-Unretired as of the launch of 6.0! Currently guild shopping. Need a good Warlock? I need a good home!
I'm pretty sure they're not any better single target(ele has rather good cleave i recon, though?).
The difference between hybrid utility and pure utility is that bringing more hybrids increases their utility. Most pure utility comes in the form personal CDs, whereas the more Shadow Priests you bring the more hymns you have. The Mage example with Will is pretty much the only one I can think of where pure stacking utility was needed.
As for Healthstones, that's an argument for having one Warlock, not multiple.
As much as it's 'bleeding' - look at the actual number of people playing that spec. Raidbots is an excellent tool for that: Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 25N is a fight that many guilds are still doing week in and week out (in order to progress on the later fights that are easier on Heroic). On Raidbots, All Parses, there are 2882 parses in the last 2 months for Shadow, and it's a fight that is just horrible for them. For Affliction, there are...2980. So with all the 'bleeding' there are only 100 more Affliction parses. If you look at All Fights combined, Shadow is literally the most popular spec in the game.
Sure, you'll say, well, what about Boomkin, or Ele. I don't deny Ele is in a bad spot, but this isn't because of single target DPS, it has everything to do with their kit. Ele has never been and never will be, good at multi-dotting fights, and that's precisely what this tier is full of. Boomkin doesn't have the sheer numbers that Affliction or Shadow have, but they are an obvious case where the general populace underrates them and top, world-first level guilds 'stacked' them (relatively) for progression (Paragon had 2 and 1 Warlock for Sha, Method had 3 and 2 Warlocks).
I don't really understand why hybrid taxes are 'pathetic' or 'disgusting' or 'bullshit'. Until Blizzard separates trees, talents and skills completely Hybrids will always be able to do things that Pures cannot. This is valuable. It's not amazing in Patchwerk, but in fights with Phasing, groups, or fights requiring more than just DPS, being able to do other things to handle RNG and corner cases merits rosters spots. That is what this tier was. You cannot move forward without a tax because that just leads to Cataclysm 2.0 - why would anyone bring more than 1 Warlock when a Shadow Priest does the same DPS (or better) along with being able to Disperse, Hymn, Mass Dispel, Leap of Faith, Void Shift etc.
Officially, yes. Look at the results now though, and heal-OS Hybrids are the only specs lagging behind in DPS.Didn't they do away with the concept of hybrid tax like two expansions ago?
http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.
There will always be class stacking in 25-man. It's just a luxury they have I think we'll never get around. In 10-man it hasn't been justified on many fights this tier. As long as we see this I think the game is in a good place.
I really don't see much of a problem with hybrids now. While I do agree that they should be able to compete with pure DPS classes they have still been needed on most fights.
I really hope that affli spec will be nerf.
I am tired with the mentality :
"Oh darling, we suck on pvp" -> "No pb, we won't touch to ur spec on pve"
"Oh fuck morron, OP spec on pvp !" -> "No pb, 10% nerf on pve"
... ... ...
That and it's not like CC or personals are unique to pures. Look at DK's (level 90 talents) with CC's, and all hybrids having some personals (dispersion being the best of all).
Boomkin utility is probably one of the best in the game with their CC (something not unique to pures) row and their tranquility + symbiosis, and they have excellent multi-target damage (look at sha for instance).
Personally I'd rather pures get some of that utility, or even better, get hybridized/eliminated completely, than have to rely on a "hybrid tax" to compensate. But I guess the latter design decision seems easier.
---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 06:44 PM ----------
quoting another post of yours:
Says enough...
Last edited by nightfalls; 2012-12-29 at 06:46 PM.
Elemental is behind for various reasons, and lacking single-target damage is indeed one of them. Plenty of other specs lack multidotting and perform fine. Elemental doesn't.
---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 07:51 PM ----------
Compensating for good utility by lowering damage is bad design, which is why Blizzard has - agian, officially - moved away from it.
Also, pure utility isn't as bad as most people seem to think. Sure, it can't compare to Elemental/Shadow/Boomkin utility, which may be too good, but it's definitely on par with Warrior/DK (and possibly Enh/Ret) utility.
Never really seen any posts confirming or denying the hybrid tax, all I can really see are results. At the moment most hybrid dps tend to be fairly weak. Also hybrid tax was never about utility, this is something the community came up with. Do you have a spec that is officially a tank/healer spec? Then you are a hybrid.
I don't think this thread is ever going beyond mages/hybrids calling for warlock nerfs and warlocks saying they're fine.
After being Medieve the Uberpally for many years, finally shelved in favor of Belledanna, the Uberlock!!! (patent pending)
-Unretired as of the launch of 6.0! Currently guild shopping. Need a good Warlock? I need a good home!
Scorch with moving should be baseline IMO, mages are very stationary as it is...
Wish all casters were a little more stationary TBH. It takes away what was traditionally one of the big downsides to casters. (Source)
Stationary may look good from a design theory perspective, but it's really not fun to play glued to the floor.
At the end of the day, there aren't many ways we can challenge folks. If we can't make moving a challenge, we lose a big one. (Source)
The affliction spec is in a weird state right now. It's pulling great numbers in PvE but as far as PvP goes, it's utter crap.
In theory the solution could be simple - make dots hit harder without being dependant on Haunt and MG. Which gets complicated in multidotting situations...
Workaround could be to limit the amount of dotted targets to three. And try to balance the numbers around that without making it stand out so much in PvE...
Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2013-01-03 at 10:41 PM.
There's nothing 'bold' about that statement at all. Even with Demonology having a broken mechanic in Simcraft (Shadowflame isn't scaling off of Meta, huge dps loss) and the garbage APL, these are the results on a 10 minute fight with 0% vary length and heavy movement: Demo vs Aff
Keep in mind that once Simcraft fixes the issue with Meta scaling and I do some work on the APL, the Demo numbers are going to go up pretty dramatically, and they're already 3k ahead. Without KJC, Affliction would not be played as much as it is.
All of that said, half the tier is borderline patchwerk so none of it really matters.
Last edited by Teye; 2013-01-03 at 11:20 PM.
The longer the fight the higher the chance that Aff beats Demo Teye. Aff does very well in long term fights due to spec efficiency(of which it is one of the highest in the game) and doesn't have to worry about damage spikes. Not to mention the damage bonus they get from utilizing Grimoire of Sacrifice.
No it's not.
Look at 99th percentile on any fight, there are a few where it is ahead, but on many other classes wreck it.
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/The_Stone...all/14/60/p99/
It's just that more people know how to play Affliction Warlock properly than any other class. In fact Mages sim higher than Warlocks now.