No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[satimy]

Combined with pathfinder requirements it is going to be the perfect storm of anger directed at Blizz. And rightfully so, because Blizzard once again is dragging their feet on transparency once more.

I'm a big bad Orc warrior but I have to jump like a fairy to some stupid treasure to be able to mount my drake. Literally retarded

[Hexxidecimal]

I started playing WoW in 2006. World PvP is dead the moment people can fly from point A to point B without having to interact with other players on the way.

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That's funny because it was around before I started playing and yet world PvP was alive and well when I started playing WoW and I distinctly remember it dying when BC came out.

It did die when BC came out but it wasn't due to flying. First and foremost, in vanilla World PvP for a while was the only kind of PvP to had. BGs didn't exist and the only way to get your PvP on was to create it. Specifically the battle between South Shore and Tarren Mill and the ever present siege of crossroads.

When BGs were introduced world PvP took a sharp downturn at this point. At least on my server, as the grind for High Warlord was easiest met IN BGs. World PvP didn't completely die however since you could still get gain honor from World PvP as well.

BC was released. Arena's were introduced and the best gear for PvP was only achievable through arena. Also it was way more achievable than the High Warlords gear, so far more people participated. This is when world PvP died. People would still flirt with world PvP at the PvP points in each of the zones but it never reached the constant fever pitch that existed previously. There were just less participants. It had nothing to do with flying, as world PvP in vanilla was pretty much relegated to only a few zones (for the most part). I would rarely run into someone randomly while questing. When things were happening in the PvP hot spots I would join. In BC there were no serious hot spots because everyone was grinding for PvP gear in Arena and more and more people were doing because the arena based PvP was waaaaaaay more accessible than high warlords stuff ever was.

The rate at which I PvPed in the world actually increased in BC since the alliance and horde shared leveling zones. But the big PvP battles of vanilla never really returned, well until wrath. Even then it was a dedicated zone and felt more like a BG than not.

[Katchii]

I'm a big bad Orc warrior but I have to jump like a fairy to some stupid treasure to be able to mount my drake. Literally retarded

No you have to jump like a big bad orc warrior...just like I'm sure you do in dungeons between pulls or at raid entrances or whatever. Don't be so dramatic.

I personally agree with the achievement, minus the stupid rep grind. I'm not exactly a pro-flyer (definitely not an anti-flyer) but I will say I would not have been playing WoD the last couple months to get all my characters to 100 if I couldn't fly...no fuckin way was I going to tromp through WoD content 8+ more times on the ground at a snails pace. Leveling and even at level cap in special "no flying zones" I'm totally fine with, but having flight in the long term is just better IMO because it IS so convenient and saves a shitload of time on alts or doing whatever the hell you want on your main after you've already done everything else with them.

[Hexxidecimal]

Also has a proper engine for all those jumping puzzles and explorations. Not a 12 year old WoW engine.

I would say a better engine, I didn't feel a game had a proper engine for that stuff till Wild Star. Which felt like a real marriage of a platformer and MMO. That game was really good but the community died off mainly cause the game was quite hard. Just further proving that the day of difficult mechanics was over. It's good to have an option for harder level stuff, it's not good to make it the bread and butter of the game though. Despite how anyone feels, for a company to be "successful" the core of the game needs to be far more approachable.

[Connll]

I started playing WoW in 2006. World PvP is dead the moment people can fly from point A to point B without having to interact with other players on the way.

Thats funny.

Because I started playing WoW in april 2005. World PvP was dead the moment Battlegrounds were introduced, and people no longer had to deal with the horrendous lag that WPvP used to cause whem teams met until then.

That's funny because it was around before I started playing and yet world PvP was alive and well when I started playing WoW and I distinctly remember it dying when BC came out.

Funny indeed.

Because I was around before you and World PvP was nothing but the occasional ganker griefing players 30 or so levels behind him, and I distinctly remember it having a resurgence when players could reach places faster via Flight, particularly for the Hellfire Peninsula PvP objectives and Nagrand.

[WowIsDead64]

But has a TON of jumping puzzles and exploration is very much forced as a lot of your xp comes from that.

Yeah, unfortunately moving to other game - is trade off. Perfect MMORPG simply doesn't exist. Biggest pro of GW2 for me - design of outdoor content (cooperative by default, dynamic world, personal story, more immersive), biggest con - game mechanics (action combat, lack of dedicated healers/tanks). But currently I have literally 0 content to do in Wow - Blizzard have taken all content away from me. Also classes/specs/roles are so gimped in Wow now, that there is no difference between it and, let's say, Wildstar. So GW2 is certainly worth trying it, cuz I simply don't have any other choice, except continuing playing totally nerfed and completely useless WOD content, such as Garrisons and Tanaan. Jump puzzles aren't that bad though, if properly implemented. I did some in Wildstar just for fun and actually liked them. In Wow, with it's "binary" terrain - they're simply terrible and worthless.

[ShiyoKozuki]

I don't know. Some designs are terrible, but they are tolerable. For example. Yeah, when Blizzard started to kill talent trees back in Cata/MOP, I was really mad about it. Same with Druid Tree form. But at the end no matter, what changes are made - they are ok, unless they make game unfun or unplayable. You've got used to some design and simply have fear of changes. Terrible "Alternative reality" storyline for example, that reminds me cheap soap operas, that run out of ideas at some point and start to repeat themselves. But I stopped caring about storyline at some point. Garrisons, being UI-based Facebook mini-game...turned to be fun at the end. So, when you say "It's bad", you're simply being principal. I.e. Blizzards' vision of game doesn't match yours. But things, like flying and pruning - are another things. They affect core gameplay. And when core gameplay is unenjoyable for you - no other positive changes can fix it. That's why no flying is last straw for many players. Me for example. Even pruning is tolerable for me, despite of it dumbing down the game. But making core outdoor content gameplay unenjoyable... Nah... Can't tolerate this change.

If you need no clip mode to play a MMO I honestly don't know what to tell you.

[Beazy]

I started playing WoW in 2006. World PvP is dead the moment people can fly from point A to point B without having to interact with other players on the way.

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That's funny because it was around before I started playing and yet world PvP was alive and well when I started playing WoW and I distinctly remember it dying when BC came out.

No it didn't, and no you don't. Quit lying.

I've been playing WoW since closed beta phase two up to half of the life cycle of WoD. World pvp died on June 7th 2005 in patch 1.5. If you say otherwise, you easily prove you dont know what the hell you're talking about. If you started in 2006, you don't have any clue what World PvP is. This is laughable.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.5.0

[Connll]

Combined with pathfinder requirements it is going to be the perfect storm of anger directed at Blizz. And rightfully so, because Blizzard once again is dragging their feet on transparency once more.

Questionable.

"Dragging their feet" implies inaction through doubt.

I postulate that the ones responsible for WoD and now Legion are doing all of this deliberately.

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No it didn't, and no you don't. Quit lying.

Yes I did.

And the only reason I don´t "do" right now, is because I stopped playing about 3 days before patch 6.2.

And if you say that the introduction of battlegrounds didn´t reduced World PvP to a shadow of it was back in the Tarren Mill vs Southshore days, then you are 1-) woefully ignorant, or 2-) intellectually dishonest.

If it is true that you have been playing since Vanilla´s Beta, then you are probably 2-).

[Hexxidecimal]

Yeah, unfortunately moving to other game - is trade off. Perfect MMORPG simply doesn't exist. Biggest pro of GW2 for me - design of outdoor content (cooperative by default, dynamic world, personal story, more immersive), biggest con - game mechanics (action combat, lack of dedicated healers/tanks). But currently I have literally 0 content to do in Wow - Blizzard have taken all content away from me. Also classes/specs/roles are so gimped in Wow now, that there is no difference between it and, let's say, Wildstar. So GW2 is certainly worth trying it, cuz I simply don't have any other choice, except continuing playing totally nerfed and completely useless WOD content, such as Garrisons and Tanaan.

Well as a player who has the wonderful opportunity to play legion I suggest giving it a try. I believe crafting nodes are now shared as are the mobs (well within the same faction). The cooperative feeling of legion is much better than in the past. There is a lack of flying and we have no real idea when it will be implemented. That does suck, however I found the design of the zones and the content to be superb and the most fun I have had with the game since WotLK. Also try out a Demon Hunter, their super high mobility and low mobility cool downs make them a blast to play through out the zones, many of which really allow you to take advantage of the guided slow fall DHs have. Even the double jump helps in many cases. Additionally the artifact weapon adds some complexity back into the classes (well some anyway) that are currently lacking.

I hated WoD, didn't play for almost the entire Xpac. I didn't come back to WoW till Legion's release date was announced. I can say that Legion is a ton of fun and worth trying at least. GW2 I also enjoyed quite a bit when I played it. It's a bit different than it used to be. Specifically the gating of abilities by level. That actually annoys me. You could take 45 mins and just grind out your use in a weapon to get all the abilities for it in the first zone. No longer. On average you have to wait longer now to get them. I also really disliked getting "better" gear was mostly just getting different skins. At the time I played you didn't really increase your power by going into instances and stuff since top level geared topped out quickly. Getting better gear is definitely not the purpose of that game, which is fine but something I never got accustom to. Could be different now, I am not sure.

Also what was wrong with wild star? I loved that game You could also try out Swtor if you like. No flying Swtor or GW2 however. But I really like SWTOR for it's story. It wasn't that that story was super top notch, just that the VO got me more invested.

[Beazy]

Questionable.

"Dragging their feet" implies inaction through doubt.

I postulate that the ones responsible for WoD and now Legion are doing all of this deliberately.

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Yes I did.

And the only reason I don´t "do" right now, is because I stopped playing about 3 days before patch 6.2.

And if you say that the introduction of battlegrounds didn´t reduced World PvP to a shadow of it was back in the Tarren Mill vs Southshore days, then you are 1-) woefully ignorant, or 2-) intellectually dishonest.

If it is true that you have been playing since Vanilla´s Beta, then you are probably 2-).

You post is unreadable. It makes no sense. I didnt even reply to you. You might want to re read the exchange.

[Hexxidecimal]

You post is unreadable. It makes no sense. I didnt even reply to you. You might want to re read the exchange.

Ohh, I was getting confused by this exchange but yeah, Connll uh you are arguing his point to him...

[Nakotsu]

Let's make sure to get a thread going that's like 20000 pages long to talk about it for several months.

yes along with the DDOS attacks they suffer thats what we need !

[WowIsDead64]

Well as a player who has the wonderful opportunity to play legion I suggest giving it a try. I believe crafting nodes are now shared as are the mobs (well within the same faction). The cooperative feeling of legion is much better than in the past. There is a lack of flying and we have no real idea when it will be implemented. That does suck, however I found the design of the zones and the content to be superb and the most fun I have had with the game since WotLK. Also try out a Demon Hunter, their super high mobility and low mobility cool downs make them a blast to play through out the zones, many of which really allow you to take advantage of the guided slow fall DHs have. Even the double jump helps in many cases. Additionally the artifact weapon adds some complexity back into the classes (well some anyway) that are currently lacking.

I hated WoD, didn't play for almost the entire Xpac. I didn't come back to WoW till Legion's release date was announced. I can say that Legion is a ton of fun and worth trying at least. GW2 I also enjoyed quite a bit when I played it. It's a bit different than it used to be. Specifically the gating of abilities by level. That actually annoys me. You could take 45 mins and just grind out your use in a weapon to get all the abilities for it in the first zone. No longer. On average you have to wait longer now to get them. I also really disliked getting "better" gear was mostly just getting different skins. At the time I played you didn't really increase your power by going into instances and stuff since top level geared topped out quickly. Getting better gear is definitely not the purpose of that game, which is fine but something I never got accustom to. Could be different now, I am not sure.

Also what was wrong with wild star? I loved that game You could also try out Swtor if you like. No flying Swtor or GW2 however. But I really like SWTOR for it's story. It wasn't that that story was super top notch, just that the VO got me more invested.

Bad outdoor design - isn't about bottlenecks only. I know, that Blizzard will do many things to improve situations with bottlenecking in Legion. Crutches and supports, but still better than nothing. It's about lack of immersion. I just can't immerse myself into game, when it's felt like a stupid farm-fest. I mean, Wow becomes lesser and lesser RPG and turns more and more into arcade with every subsequent xpack.

If you want to know my opinion about power of my character - I don't care about it that much. As I've already said, I don't care, what kind of gear to collect - Epics or just grey crap. I simply need goal to achieve.

Wildstar? It has nice leveling, but literally 0 casual endgame content - 5ppls and Raids are too hard for PUGs, most outdoor content - is group one. I.e. it's the same, as Vanilla/TBC - you know, that "I'm at level cap. WHAT NOW?" feeling.

[Deletedaccount1]

No it didn't, and no you don't. Quit lying.

I've been playing WoW since closed beta phase two up to half of the life cycle of WoD. World pvp died on June 7th 2005 in patch 1.5. If you say otherwise, you easily prove you dont know what the hell you're talking about. If you started in 2006, you don't have any clue what World PvP is. This is laughable.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.5.0

Yeah? Please enlighten me on what world PvP was like before patch 1.5

[Connll]

I didnt even reply to you.

You are right. You didn´t and I am sorry.

I think I thought that because your post is just below mine.

You might want to re read the exchange.

Thanks for the heads up. I have done so and noticed my error.

Once again, sorry.

[Idoru]

Yeah? Please enlighten me on what world PvP was like before patch 1.5

Even PvE servers had World PvP.

[Deleted]

Oh look another one with no clue at all.

Of all the shit people complain about I will never understand this.

it is not that hard to understand: different people find different things important. And it doesn't mean everybody posting here about flight no being in the expac from the start doesn't mean there are no other problems they have with the game. This just happens the thread about.... well, flight not being in the expac from the start

WoW right now has dumbed down talents, specs, abilities,

And most of them have not been used. Talents/specs have been picked after the most valuable, the most abilities have been used... once because ran out of good-to-reach-hotkeys. And those who can reach every button in the blink of an eye are just to few to care for.

bad PvP,

True... but it has always been bad in WoW.

trash content, trash leveling, no MMO feel to it, easy raiding

Erm..... one point you clearly have no clue. You must have missed the info that World of Warcraft has always been and has always been planned to be the most casual MMO in the world. Because Blizz wanted from the very first moment that not only the average nerdy hardcore MMO-crowd can enjoy their game, but instead everybody can.

and seemingly endless content droughts and yet this is what people complain about?

Again: because this is the tread that is about this discussion. Don't want to think about it, don't want to read it? Then just do't read it.

Flying mounts were definitively the worst thing added to the game pre-wotlk. It completely killed any sort of world PvP that this game had.

And another hint showing how less of a clue you have. First: your personal opinion is NOT a fact. Flying didn't destroy anything. You might have missed the times where instanced Battlegrounds, dungeons and raids did pull away more players from the open-PvP by million times more than flight ever could.
And to be honest: Blizz had great ideas for Open-PvP, and great potential. They just decided to throw it all away instead of actually making use of it. Hallaa was great, we had fun times in BC WITH flight, they just make their own content worthless every time they throw in new stuff. Open-PvP COULD be something fun. But it this state it isn't worth the hassle or to even bother with. And flight has nothing to do with it in the slightest.

[Deletedaccount1]

Oh look another one with no clue at all.

Very nice post my friend, it's a shame Blizzard doesn't pay you to shill their game for them. You'd be amazing at it.

[Deleted]

No it didn't, and no you don't. Quit lying.

I've been playing WoW since closed beta phase two up to half of the life cycle of WoD. World pvp died on June 7th 2005 in patch 1.5. If you say otherwise, you easily prove you dont know what the hell you're talking about. If you started in 2006, you don't have any clue what World PvP is. This is laughable.

Oh. I guess all the world PvP myself and my friends have been enjoying for the last 12 years must have been a dream.

Pity. It was so much fun.