[Megathread] DotA 2

[Bapestar]

A hero that is good at one thing and one thing only does not mean that's a good hero.

Techies is literally only good at defending, which he's OP at. At everything else, he's far below par. His laning sucks. His pushing sucks. His ganking sucks. His teamfighting sucks.

- - - Updated - - -

6.86c has arrived. Nerfs include:

- Invoker loses base STR and Alacrity rescaled to heavily penalize lower levels, especially lvl 1 and 2. Maintains parity at lvl 5 and actually buffed substantially at lvl 6 and lvl 7. Invoker still bullshit but probably not overpowered now.

- Void Time Walk increased to 625, Time Dilation duration increased to 12 sec but cooldown also increased by 2 sec. Utility Void has been pretty good, extra range on Time Walk will be a big help. Will still probably need Blink Dagger or Shadowblade.

- Meaningless damage nerf to Gyro Call Down. Gyro still OP.

- Tusk Walrus Punch cooldown is a LOT higher at lvl 1 and 2, stays the same at lvl 3. Support Tusk nerfed hard, core Tusk still okay.

- Bane Nightmare cooldown is a LOT higher at low levels, stays the same at lvl 4. So much for people ever investing in Enfeeble despite it being a god tier skill.

- Riki Tricks of the Trade cooldown cut almost in half to 40 sec and AOE increased by 25. Actually probably pretty good now with a cooldown that low. Also range and cast point improvements for Blink Strike. Riki might be okay now.

- OD orb drains 1 more INT at all levels and INT steal lasts 10 more sec. Small QOL change for OD. Ulti still not usable before lvl 11.

- Dazzle Shallow Grave cast point increased to 0.40 and mana cost for Shadow Wave increased by 10 at all levels. Dazzle still stronk.

- Wyvern Winter's Curse gives an extra +20 IAS to affected units. Wyvern ulti slightly less shit now.

- Miscellaneous nerfs to Dark Seer Surge and Dirge Tombstone. Because fuck them.

- Death Prophet has higher base INT, more damage and slow on Spirit Siphon, and Exorcism lasts 5 more seconds. DP slightly less shit now. Still shitty Lina, though.

There are other heroes that are bad at other roles and good at few roles, so that is an extremely weak argument. All those other heroes listed are still very playable. It's quite clear you just like calling heroes shit. Besides teamfighting and ganking, techies is not far below par. There are many heroes that have worse pushing and laning than techies.

[PizzaSHARK]

There are other heroes that are bad at other roles and good at few roles, so that is an extremely weak argument. All those other heroes listed are still very playable. It's quite clear you just like calling heroes shit. Besides teamfighting and ganking, techies is not far below par. There are many heroes that have worse pushing and laning than techies.

The fact that you have to pick at nits to justify your position makes it pretty evident just how flimsy that position is. I'm not wasting more time on you. If you think Techies is good, go ahead and keep picking him - it's good of you to run an MMR donation clinic like that, Peruvians need MMR too.

[Bapestar]

The fact that you have to pick at nits to justify your position makes it pretty evident just how flimsy that position is. I'm not wasting more time on you. If you think Techies is good, go ahead and keep picking him - it's good of you to run an MMR donation clinic like that, Peruvians need MMR too.

I don't even play him lol, I'm just getting really tired of people saying x hero is unplayable or trash with no strong argument. If techies was that bad he wouldn't of been added, I'll trust Icefrog over players any day. When I said other heroes have roles they are bad in, it wasn't false.

[Drunkenvalley]

Yeah, I'm just ignoring Bapestar since, at this time, he still hasn't presented literally any argument as to why techies isn't trash. I suggest you do the same on the subject, Pizza.

As for randoming, I don't think it's inherently bad, but I gotta give credit where credit is due: It's usually really obnoxious when your team's spent its first 10 seconds setting up a gameplan, and then some fuckwit randoms a hardcarry so now he wants to safelane.

[Bapestar]

Yeah, I'm just ignoring Bapestar since, at this time, he still hasn't presented literally any argument as to why techies isn't trash. I suggest you do the same on the subject, Pizza.

As for randoming, I don't think it's inherently bad, but I gotta give credit where credit is due: It's usually really obnoxious when your team's spent its first 10 seconds setting up a gameplan, and then some fuckwit randoms a hardcarry so now he wants to safelane.

I have you just don't agree and are a sheep that follows what everyone else does, which is calling heroes trash. You only ignore me because i'm right.

[Lysah]

I don't understand the Invoker "nerf," personally. Alacrity is not inherently what makes this hero good. Assuming he goes null tango for lane phase, if he adds phase boots onto that and skips the travels, he can be pushing like 150 auto attack damage with 3 exorts up by level 7. That by itself is semi-retarded, he basically has a built in Grow with no attack speed penalty as a ranged hero in the form of leveling Exort. Add to that the fact that they didn't change the bonus damage from Alacrity at all, which is where early game Invokers get their power, as they are leveling Exort, not Wex, and the only thing that really got changed was a loss of 40 health. Big whoop.

I understand that the professional scene and Icefrog seem to think that the only way to play Invoker is to run around like a fairy and spamming EMP, but even with that build this change doesn't really do anything. Orchid EMP cold snap doesn't even use Alacrity.

It doesn't surprise me he is getting picked up very quickly, he has been massively overbuffed imo, the change to giving him his ult for free was way over the top and I am still laughing about it. As an Invoker player, one of the things I always considered a balancing factor about this hero is the fact that he needs level ~5 before he really starts to actually be a hero instead of just a fancy creep, and now even that small window of opportunity the enemy has to shut you down no longer exists. There is literally no point in the game where this hero is weak, now. Windows and timing are everything in dota, and new Invoker gives 0 fucks.

[Mellomania]

Invoker does seem strong ye

[StrawberryZebra]

It doesn't surprise me he is getting picked up very quickly, he has been massively overbuffed imo, the change to giving him his ult for free was way over the top and I am still laughing about it.

Didn't he also get a bunch of extra stats at level 25 too as well as Invoke for free? Its hard to disagree though, he'd been slowly getting buffed the last couple of patches including things like his Agh's adding extra stats, increased Int gains. Perhaps the biggest one is not putting Invoke on cooldown if abilities don't swap slots, it adds a nice thick layer of idiot proofing to him. As it stands, he's been overbuffed to the point where its pick him or ban him, which unfortunately means we're probably in for him totally dominating the next couple of tournaments until he gets whacked with the Nerf bat so hard it'll be years before he sees play again.
Admitedly, he did get a small token "nerf", if it even is a nerf, but I can't really see that changing much. As of right now, his only real weakness is his slow movement speed without Wex activated, while it does allow some of the faster Heroes to chase him down, it doesn't change the fact that Invoker has huge right click damage early, strong CC and escape tools and high spell damage. He has the whole package in short, and no point of the game where he's really weak anymore. Your only saving grace is that you can, probably, outrun him.

Yeah, I'm just ignoring Bapestar since, at this time, he still hasn't presented literally any argument as to why techies isn't trash. I suggest you do the same on the subject, Pizza.

I second this. Its not that I'm opposed to discussion about Techies, its just that nothing resembling an argument has been presented in his defense. Its pointless trying to talk about them with someone who insists that they're never wrong because reasons.

[Lysah]

I saw that gif, too bad it's a one in a million set up and an extremely fed Invoker, and Earthshaker could do the exact same thing with 10% of the net worth. It's pretty, though

I should make a gif of me killing a QoP 1v1 mid at level 6 with nothing but alacrity and cold snap, I think that better showcases how ridiculous the hero is.

Edit:
Also, Troll is good again, let it be known.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2037355288
Ultimate rat smasher
360 attack speed from ER already, another ~70 from base agility = nearly attack speed capped naked

[M1r4g3]

Imma say it again, I WANT THIS META DEAD SERIOUSLY ITS SO BRAINLESS AND SHIT.

[PizzaSHARK]

Yeah, I'm just ignoring Bapestar since, at this time, he still hasn't presented literally any argument as to why techies isn't trash. I suggest you do the same on the subject, Pizza.

As for randoming, I don't think it's inherently bad, but I gotta give credit where credit is due: It's usually really obnoxious when your team's spent its first 10 seconds setting up a gameplan, and then some fuckwit randoms a hardcarry so now he wants to safelane.

Meh, doesn't happen in my pro league 3k's. At most we might get someone that plops their abaddon on mid or something.

- - - Updated - - -

I have you just don't agree and are a sheep that follows what everyone else does, which is calling heroes trash. You only ignore me because i'm right.

I don't understand the Invoker "nerf," personally. Alacrity is not inherently what makes this hero good. Assuming he goes null tango for lane phase, if he adds phase boots onto that and skips the travels, he can be pushing like 150 auto attack damage with 3 exorts up by level 7. That by itself is semi-retarded, he basically has a built in Grow with no attack speed penalty as a ranged hero in the form of leveling Exort. Add to that the fact that they didn't change the bonus damage from Alacrity at all, which is where early game Invokers get their power, as they are leveling Exort, not Wex, and the only thing that really got changed was a loss of 40 health. Big whoop.

I understand that the professional scene and Icefrog seem to think that the only way to play Invoker is to run around like a fairy and spamming EMP, but even with that build this change doesn't really do anything. Orchid EMP cold snap doesn't even use Alacrity.

It doesn't surprise me he is getting picked up very quickly, he has been massively overbuffed imo, the change to giving him his ult for free was way over the top and I am still laughing about it. As an Invoker player, one of the things I always considered a balancing factor about this hero is the fact that he needs level ~5 before he really starts to actually be a hero instead of just a fancy creep, and now even that small window of opportunity the enemy has to shut you down no longer exists. There is literally no point in the game where this hero is weak, now. Windows and timing are everything in dota, and new Invoker gives 0 fucks.

sf also gets like 150 attack damage at level 7 and it's also incredibly stupid.

- - - Updated - - -

I saw that gif, too bad it's a one in a million set up and an extremely fed Invoker, and Earthshaker could do the exact same thing with 10% of the net worth. It's pretty, though

I should make a gif of me killing a QoP 1v1 mid at level 6 with nothing but alacrity and cold snap, I think that better showcases how ridiculous the hero is.

Edit:
Also, Troll is good again, let it be known.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2037355288
Ultimate rat smasher
360 attack speed from ER already, another ~70 from base agility = nearly attack speed capped naked

Troll never stopped being good. I don't know why people completely stopped picking him. Even if Troll himself was made bad he'd still be an amazing secondary core to give your main click damage a free massive IAS boost on demand.

[Lysah]

He did lose quite a bit of laning power, but now he can put a value point in W and level QE and permabash people with no items at level 9 easy, this last buff gave him almost an entire hyperstone for free.

[PizzaSHARK]

Climbed 400 MMR in 4 days. Feelsgoodman

[Bapestar]

Troll never stopped being good. I don't know why people completely stopped picking him. Even if Troll himself was made bad he'd still be an amazing secondary core to give your main click damage a free massive IAS boost on demand.

Because like I said, when he was nerfed of course everyone was all lel troll got nerfed, hes trash now. He was good before people spammed him and before he was a fotm hero. And this is the case with many heroes.

[PizzaSHARK]

Because like I said, when he was nerfed of course everyone was all lel troll got nerfed, hes trash now. He was good before people spammed him and before he was a fotm hero. And this is the case with many heroes.

This is nothing new. Gyro got "nerfed" and the pros stopped picking him despite the fact that he was practically unchanged.

[Lysah]

I think the troll nerfs were pretty significant, reduced his ability to autowin any lane substantially.

[Bapestar]

This is nothing new. Gyro got "nerfed" and the pros stopped picking him despite the fact that he was practically unchanged.

You say that then dismiss it when it comes to techies.

[PizzaSHARK]

I think the troll nerfs were pretty significant, reduced his ability to autowin any lane substantially.

Sure, but didn't remove his ability to press to make towers and rax evaporate. Battle Trance literally wins games.

You say that then dismiss it when it comes to techies.

[Bapestar]

Nice Dota 2 review btw shark.

[Deleted]

You say that then dismiss it when it comes to techies.

Except for the practically unchanged part of the quote that you so conveniently chose to overhear because it didn't fit your pants-on-head-deluded narrative, you literal sack of bricks.