Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Edge-]

The truth? I don't know what you are going for here. What was the hoax about Benghazi?

That Clinton was guilty of some criminal wrongdoing. Which is why Republicans kept re-investigating when they didn't get the results they wanted?

I mean, did you even pay attention?

[Skroe]

I don't think so, it still wouldn't be a conspiracy theory at this point as they had active investigations with evidence.

As for this closing up. Mueller might be done with his part but we still don't know the content of the report yet and we still have sealed indictments that we don't know for sure who's name is on them. For all we know, Trump might have one sealed for when he leaves office to avoid fighting the "No indictments in office" bit.

Plus we have all the other stuff Mueller has farmed out that is still going.

No, regardless of what the trolls say, this isn't a conspiracy theory.

If, after everything that has happened, if all the current stuff farmed out all ended up busting with nothing and the sealed indictments ended up being busts. THEN it might be a conspiracy theory for the Russia part but the rest would still stand given all the guilty pleas and such so far.

The poster you're refering to is just doing some of his typical bad faith posting.

[Ragedaug]

That Clinton was guilty of some criminal wrongdoing. Which is why Republicans kept re-investigating when they didn't get the results they wanted?

I mean, did you even pay attention?

Yeah, I was paying attention. The Government left people to die. The state department lied about it immediately after the news broke. We don't know why they lied, but some speculated it was to cover malice or criminal wrongdoing. There were hearings. No evidence was found to prove malice or criminal wrong doing.

Again..where's the hoax?

[Skroe]

So we over the long anticipated and coordinated buffer building by the Trumphadis yet?

I mean as bow waves go, it wasn't really much of one to sail right over.

[Acidbaron]

When it gets made public it will take down a few of these sociopaths so that's nice. Maybe even one of trumps spawn.

Who cares about Hillary any more, she's no longer relevant. All people are doing here is displaying their misogyny while trying to derail the thread.

This thread is about how the republicans sold out their country to a russian government for personal wealth and glory at the cost of american lives.

[Ragedaug]

"I have no arguments, just smears".

Next, please.

Just because I don't idolize the US, and am just amused by BOTH you people with TDS AND dislike the Trump neocon swamp admin does not make me "bad faith".

Imagine the audacity on my part to dislike all side of a "conflict" for separate reasons. How dare I not pick a side and abide by its unspoken, unwritten rules religiously?

I surely must have some sort of hidden agenda.

If you can't pick one side to blindly follow while blindly hating the other side, you are the worse kind of evil. You are the target our public education is trying to reprogram.

[Edge-]

Yeah, I was paying attention. The Government left people to die. The state department lied about it immediately after the news broke. We don't know why they lied, but some speculated it was to cover malice or criminal wrongdoing. There were hearings. No evidence was found to prove malice or criminal wrong doing.

Again..where's the hoax?

I mean, did we forget about the fact that they're still complaining about Benghazi? Did you miss the 2016 RNC? The constant "lock her up" chants? The fact that Republicans continued starting new investigations into Clinton/Benghazi when their initial investigations, and the independent investigations, found no evidence of wrongdoing?

[Ragedaug]

When it gets made public it will take down a few of these sociopaths so that's nice. Maybe even one of trumps spawn.

Who cares about Hillary any more, she's no longer relevant. All people are doing here is displaying their misogyny while trying to derail the thread.

This thread is about how the republicans sold out their country to a russian government for personal wealth and glory at the cost of american lives.

Yeah...uh no. The Democrats have sold out to the Russians for years. From the uranium deal, to Russian payments to the Clinton Foundation, to Russian payments to the Clintons for "speaking", to Obama's whispers to Russian officials over a hot mic about making deals once he wins reelection, to Obama laughing in Romney's face and openly mocking him for Romney saying Russia was one of the biggest threats to the country.

No, this thread is about the Mueller investigation that is going to show no Russian collusion. The party that sold out to the Russians has always been the Democrat party.

[Skroe]

"I have no arguments, just smears".

Next, please.

Just because I don't idolize the US, and am just amused by BOTH you people with TDS AND dislike the Trump neocon swamp admin does not make me "bad faith".

Imagine the audacity on my part to dislike all side of a "conflict" for separate reasons. How dare I not pick a side and abide by its unspoken, unwritten rules religiously?

I surely must have some sort of hidden agenda.

No. You're posting in bad faith. This is what you do. You hide behind buzzwords like "TDS" and "neocon swamp" because you lack the integrity and personal fortitude to put your beliefs forward when called on the game you're playing. But hiding behind some sharp little bad faith? You do that quite easily. That is who you are. We know this about you.

This is an investigation that has lead to 37 indictments, millions of dollars in fines and restitution, and has blown open a whole world of multinational American-European-Russian conspiracy to get Trump elected via coordinated information warfare. It has sent people to jail. The "virtual Mueller report" that has come out through the documents released to the court over the past 18 months show that the Trump campaign was up to its eyeballs in Russian contacts and figures actively collaborated with Wikileaks and Russian intelligence.

Cases have been handed off to other standing DoJ divisions. Rick Gates for example... his cooperation was just handed off. These investigations will go on for years. More broadly, we have at times in the past refered to this as the "Super-Mueller" investigation, because it goes well beyond Russia and this campaign. It extends into Americans peddling access to foreign governments and acting on their conflicts of interest here.

"Collusion"... actually conspiracy, was confirmed repeatedly, most recently with the SCO allegetions regarding Wikileaks, Julian Assange and Roger Stone.

The more salient question is, did Donald Trump's firing of James Comey and lies surrounding the Trump Tower meeting rise to the level of Obstruction of Justice. That is, after all, how the SCO office opened. You will recall, it was less than 6 weeks ago that the mere allegation that Donald Trump compelled Cohen to line to Congress led to a fire for impeachment that was raging so out of control, the SCO office had to step in for the first time ever to clear up the issue. That is how close to the edge on that ONE issue - obstruction - Donald Trump is.

So given all the above, which keep in mind, barely qualifies as an executive summary of the findings of the Trump-Russia investigation to date, when you ask "will this thread be locked as a conspiracy theory", you are posting in the most profound level of bad faith. The Witch Hunt found a hive of witches. Like I'm stunned you even tried that shit.

At least have the balls to own up to it. I don't expect much from you, but seriously... don't insult our intelligence, here.

[Ragedaug]

I mean, did we forget about the fact that they're still complaining about Benghazi? Did you miss the 2016 RNC? The constant "lock her up" chants? The fact that Republicans continued starting new investigations into Clinton/Benghazi when their initial investigations, and the independent investigations, found no evidence of wrongdoing?

2016 is like 3 years ago. I guess I'm confused about why you are bringing that up as evidence that it's still going on now. It's 2019 now.

Otherwise you are suggesting that all campaign rhetoric can be defined as "hoax". And if that's what you define as a hoax, they pretty much every campaign is guilty of that.

To define it as a hoax, you have to show me evidence that the people going after Clinton were doing it out of malice, lying about it when they knew she did no wrong. Because you can't do that, you are just as guilty as anyone saying what Clinton did was out of malice. Can you not see the hypocrisy there, that you are doing exactly what you are complaining out?

[DKjaigen]

Mueller's report could indicate deep seeded corruption, money laundering, tax fraud, and collusion with Russia, and not include any indictments since Mueller himself cannot indict a sitting president. I realize Trumpkins are fucking DESPERATE to be vindicated, but the reality isn't so simple. Of course, no matter what happens, the right wing Trumpkin Nazi apologists on here will say Trump is innocent simply because of lack of indictment, no matter how much corruption is revealed.

Then explain Cohen and Manaford then. Mueller never showed any hesitation to nail these 2. Its very unlikely what you are saying.

[lockedout]

No, this thread is about the Mueller investigation that is going to show no Russian collusion. The party that sold out to the Russians has always been the Democrat party.

1. Mueller did not indict Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, or other people whose purported legal jeopardy was the subject of intense media speculation in the last year.

2. Mueller did not charge anyone in the Trump campaign or circle with conspiring with Russia to fix the 2016 election, as was the subject of intense media speculation in the last year.

3. Mueller did not subpoena the president, as was the subject of intense media speculation in the last year.

4. The president did not fire Mueller, as was the subject of intense media speculation in the last year.

5. The president did not interfere with the Mueller investigation, as was the subject of intense media speculation in the last year. In his letter to Congress, Barr noted the requirement that he notify lawmakers if top Justice Department officials ever interfered with the Mueller investigation. "There were no such instances," Barr wrote.

[Acidbaron]

Yeah...uh no. The Democrats have sold out to the Russians for years. From the uranium deal, to Russian payments to the Clinton Foundation, to Russian payments to the Clintons for "speaking", to Obama's whispers to Russian officials over a hot mic about making deals once he wins reelection, to Obama laughing in Romney's face and openly mocking him for Romney saying Russia was one of the biggest threats to the country.

No, this thread is about the Mueller investigation that is going to show no Russian collusion. The party that sold out to the Russians has always been the Democrat party.

So you have been able to see the report care to share a link so everyone can see it?

[Edge-]

2016 is like 3 years ago. I guess I'm confused about why you are bringing that up as evidence that it's still going on now. It's 2019 now.

Are the "lock her up" chants continuing? Yes? Cool, glad we're on the same page.

Otherwise you are suggesting that all campaign rhetoric can be defined as "hoax". And if that's what you define as a hoax, they pretty much every campaign is guilty of that.

No, Benghazi specifically is a hoax the GOP continues to try to make a "thing". Hence why they spent days talking about it during the RNC.

To define it as a hoax, you have to show me evidence that the people going after Clinton were doing it out of malice, lying about it when they knew she did no wrong. Because you can't do that, you are just as guilty as anyone saying what Clinton did was out of malice. Can you not see the hypocrisy there, that you are doing exactly what you are complaining out?

How many Republican investigations were there after the first one turned up no evidence of any wrongdoing by the State Department, again?

[Skroe]

Yeah...uh no. The Democrats have sold out to the Russians for years. From the uranium deal, to Russian payments to the Clinton Foundation, to Russian payments to the Clintons for "speaking", to Obama's whispers to Russian officials over a hot mic about making deals once he wins reelection, to Obama laughing in Romney's face and openly mocking him for Romney saying Russia was one of the biggest threats to the country.

No, this thread is about the Mueller investigation that is going to show no Russian collusion. The party that sold out to the Russians has always been the Democrat party.

Literally most of the findings of the Special Counsel's office to the courts, that has led to 37 indictments, tell an entirely different story.

Really, whats your end game here? Coordination and Conspiracy between Trump campaign officials and Russian Intelligence was alleged by the SCO's office some time ago. Most recently with Roger Stone and Wikileaks, which US intelligence regards as a front for Russian information warfare.

Did that all disappear in a puff of smoke?

The most outstanding issues with regard to the Mueller Report, other than tying everything up in a neat little bow (which based on the prior fillings, will harbor no good news for Donald Trump and his cult), will be to ascertain if Donald Trump committed Obstruction of Justice in trying to cover up his campaigns, extensive collaboration with Russia.

Do you remember how this started? This started days after Trump fired James Comey on the basis of the FBI's Russia investigation. And the two biggest avenues of the obstruction investigation is if Trump committed a criminal act in that fire, and if Trump committed a criminal act in lying about the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting when he personally dictated his son's responses on Air Force One in July 2017.

Mueller cannot indict the sitting President because the Special Counsel's office is different than the defunct Independent Counsel's office. Furthermore, the SCO, as an, in effect, US Attorney for a topic, rather than a geographic area, cannot send a recommendation to Congress to impeach the President. Neither can the Attorney General. Only the Independent Counsel (Ken Starr during Clinton) could do that.

That is why Democrats in Congress want the report in full - and make no mistake, they _will_ get it. Because they will have to decide if it rises to the level of impeachment. If the Mueller report says something as simple as "Donald Trump's actions were done to slow or prevent the Russia investigation", the answer is, absolutely.

And more to the point, you've kind of missed a larger agenda here. I think we're going to get something like that. By Trump's own words, he obstructed. But if we don't, that's not the end of anything. All that means is that what is useful in the Mueller report and the various indictments will be weaponized against him in 2020 and beyond.

This is after all, politics, and it never ends. Mueller or no Mueller. Trump survives or Trumps, it never stops. I know that the Trumphadis thinks that a Mueller report that stops short of pointing a finger at the President will somehow lead to a vindication of the President. And then what? An approval rating that isn't in the dumps for a record amount of time? An agenda that isn't stalled-to-nonexistent? A better chance in 2020? An end to the legitimacy questions surrounding him? It doesn't really get them anything. Literally nothing changes. The attacks continue. The allegations continue. The war on Trump continues.

Like... this is politics. There is no punctuated end to this, one way or another.

[mvaliz]

So we over the long anticipated and coordinated buffer building by the Trumphadis yet?

I mean as bow waves go, it wasn't really much of one to sail right over.

Despite the Russian Trollfarm's operating on Overtime (what is that, 2.5 extra turnips per hour?), one thing does have me worried - Dumbass Dump's silence.

Unless it's something as simple as them pulling his phone from him, it's not normal for him to be this silent with something this big looming over his head. Normally you can gauge the level of "fucked" he is by the insanity level of his twit-storm. So far, he's been radio silent. =/

[lockedout]

Despite the Russian Trollfarm's operating on Overtime (what is that, 2.5 extra turnips per hour?), one thing does have me worried - Dumbass Dump's silence.

Unless it's something as simple as them pulling his phone from him, it's not normal for him to be this silent with something this big looming over his head. Normally you can gauge the level of "fucked" he is by the insanity level of his twit-storm. So far, he's been radio silent. =/

You follow him on Twitter?

[Celista]

For me, if I gave it a number, I'd say ~40% chance.

But I wonder how much of that is my hope that this country will get its shit together and give Donald the boot in November 2020.

GW was elected twice so my expectations are low.

[Skroe]

Despite the Russian Trollfarm's operating on Overtime (what is that, 2.5 extra turnips per hour?), one thing does have me worried - Dumbass Dump's silence.

Unless it's something as simple as them pulling his phone from him, it's not normal for him to be this silent with something this big looming over his head. Normally you can gauge the level of "fucked" he is by the insanity level of his twit-storm. So far, he's been radio silent. =/

I think of all weekends for him to have a no-twitter rule, this would be the one.

The troll farm has been fascinating to watch though while we wait. Within the first hour or two of the news of it landing at the DoJ yesterday, #Mueller and #MuellerReport was filled with actual people, and journalists, on both sides. But after around 6pm yesterday, it's been swarmed by bot accounts with hashtags like "#INDEPENDENT #EXDEM #1A #2A #GODANDFAMILY. #MAGA #WalkAway #StrongMilitary #KAG #BuildTheWall #AmericaFirst #CNNSUCKS #DRAIN THE SWAMP". The goal of course, was to hijack the #Mueller and #MuellerReport that had risen to the top of trending on social media. What was stunning to me was how mechanical it was.

And what were those troll accounts? Attractive white women in their 20s and 30s, or fake-Veterans. Precisely the kind of things that the PAC I work for (among many others) found appeals almost uniformly single, white, lower middle, suburban and rural males between the ages of 18 and 42.

I mean here is an example from another investigation:





The psychology is, in conjunction with all those ridiculous hashtags, if you agree with said attractive twitter girl, you can fuck them.

The interesting part is, this little trick worked once, in 2016, and really hasn't worked since. Twitter (and Facebook) are damaged goods and IW approaches outside of Twitter and FB will probably be more effective next time around. PACs like mine (but mostly larger) capitalizing on this are doing classical political "ground game" stuff in communities that Trump HAS to win in 2020 in order to win.

In the final analysis, it really doesn't matter if some 23 year old working class dude in rural Kentucky is snookered by some Twitter harlot-bot. What matters is the AARP crowd in Pennsylvannia and Wisconsin.

This is something the Trumphajdis, as you've seen in this thread, are glacial to appreciate but I've been relaying for months based on my own personal experiences with anti-Trump activism. It's dual track. Destroy Trump now if we can. But plan B is just repackage the whole damn thing into a weapon for keeping his presidency effectively locked down before removing him in 2020.

The fact these jabronis are even taking the absence of any news beyond "report done" as vidinication just shows how they haven't wrapped their head quite around this. As if anything would get meaningfully easier for Trump, with a positive report.

What it is really about of course, is them. It's not even the agenda. It's their egos. They made a profound moral compromise voting for Trump and they know it. They may have hated Hillary, but they managed to logic out become Vladimir Putin's willing accomplices. They have been appropriately villified for it. They've appropriately had their patroitism and decency questioned. And for the first time in three years they want to feel like villains of the story that they rightfully are.

The joke of it is, of course, even if Trump were vindicated, by virtue of Tump's other actions... say Charlottesville, or the Concentration Camps, or the Shutdown, or the ruinous tax cut that has blown a $750 billion hole in the budget, or the North Korea diplomacy farce, or damaging NATO, or his broader assault on institutions... by virtue of those, and them standing by their man, they're still the villain.

For my part, and I've said this many times, it wasn't Trump-Russia that made Trump illegitimate in my eyes. It was his response to Charlottesville. He laid down the moral authority of the Presidency that day, and while we've had a president ex-officio, he's only been the leader of far-right America, and not the United States of America. In that, we've been in an interregnum. He did that to himself.

- - - Updated - - -

GW was elected twice so my expectations are low.

I'll just say what I said over two years ago.

We can cry about Trump or we can do something about Trump.

I chose two years ago to do something about it, and have barely gotten more than 4 hours of sleep in 2 years.

Folks who oppose Trump - and I mean larger than Trump-Russia, I mean in opposition to his entire un-American agenda - but haven't gotten up to do something about it, really aren't helping. They're hoping others do the work for them.

I was and remain inspired by the history turnout in November 2018 that was a rebuke to Trump. And the anti-Trump activist community is vast, well financed, well peopled and enthusiastic.

The larger point is this though: if Americans are going to be passive observers to the defilement of their country and merely lament at 'what is going on", what exactly will get them off the bench? Everyone can make a difference, and big and small ways. The end of Trump and burning Trumpism to the ground won't be the achievement of one man, one candidate or one President. It is, as these things always are, the masterwork of countless.

- - - Updated - - -

Why not? You're insulting mine all the time. You don't seem that bright to me either.

Life's tough. Some people might disagree with you.

Just because I was asking something also doesn't mean you know what I think. What I do think, is that there's no proof, as of now, to show clear collusion between Trump himself and Russia, and that his foreign policies are solidifying it.

That does not mean my mind is 100% made up. It's expecting more evidence. My stance is somewhat neutral. I dislike Trump, I dislike what he does, and I also dislike most people that hate him with a passion for weird reasons.

The ideal outcome for me would be no collusion, so you get humiliated, and Trump losing election and going to jail in 2020 for his frauds, so he gets humiliated.

The sad part is I won't see any more compilations of Rachel Maddow crying over Russia. That will be a big loss.

Blah blah blah, you weaselly posted in bad faith and got caught on it and don't have the balls to own it. Yes, this is a question of your manhood and your integrity.

Look, I don't care about your opinion on Trump-Russia and Mueller. That is not what I am responding to. You are entitled to that opinion and in no way shape or form have to agree with me. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

What I am calling out is you with that bad faith "will this thread be closed as a conspiracy theory now" line. You know _exactly_ what you were doing. And we've now had two posts from you going "no no no, what I mean is...".

37 indictments, millions in fines and restitution. Years-long prison sentences. Clear lines of collaboration between Trump 2016 and Russian intelligence. The biggest question left is Obstruction, not "collusion". And you open with that. Hilarious. Bad faith to the core.

If you have even a shred of integrity, and I don't think you do, you'll retract that line now.

I don't think you got the guts to do it. I think I'm in store for the 3rd round "no no no, what I mean is". Hit me with it, baby.

[Belize]

Despite the Russian Trollfarm's operating on Overtime (what is that, 2.5 extra turnips per hour?), one thing does have me worried - Dumbass Dump's silence.

Unless it's something as simple as them pulling his phone from him, it's not normal for him to be this silent with something this big looming over his head. Normally you can gauge the level of "fucked" he is by the insanity level of his twit-storm. So far, he's been radio silent. =/

He isn't gloating either.

My guess is they pulled his phone and pumped him with sedatives