Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[SirBeef]

A progressive who uses logic would observe that electing a president with 95% of Trump's policy agenda in exchange for having no progressive candidate for 8 years is not a good trade-off. You have to be a really dull intellectually not to take that into consideration and focus only on the short-term.

Here's another logical observation for you Jeb, letting things get worse slower is not a step forward.

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OK Jeb, since you are the genius here, can you tell us what "knowledge" we should use here? Such as how doing the exact same thing you've been doing since the 70's as electing the marginally less obnoxious corporate bitch has worked out for you? Did you think about that? How the same strategy you've been using for decades hasn't worked repeatedly? How it led to Trump winning in the first place? Can you explain how doing that exact same thing is somehow different this time?

Oh please lay out the full policy platforms of Biden and Trump so we can see this magical 95% overlap you pearl clutches keep claiming. While Biden isn't a progressive he has adopted many progressive ideas into his platform, has many progressives advising him, and is not even remotely close to being Trump.

[Felya]

So you think Democrat SCOTUS judges will be the same as Moscow Mitch SCOTUS judges?

We are being encouraged to not vote for lesser of two evils, while the greater of two evils has been doing this for those 40 years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinto...e_plan_of_1993

”The long-term political effects of a successful... health care bill will be even worse—much worse. ... It will revive the reputation of. ... Democrats as the generous protector of middle-class interests. And it will at the same time strike a punishing blow against Republican claims to defend the middle class by restraining government.“
— William Kristol, "Defeating President Clinton's Healthcare Proposal", December 1993

While GOP saw Clinton as this much of a threat... we were and still are being told they are the same. Who exactly wins, when arguing that those with a history of pushing healthcare reform are the same as those that blocked it?

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Love watching Biden say he'll put another $300m into the police.

How much is spent on police in your country?

[SirBeef]

No one in their right mind would say Biden and Trump share 95% of policy. Have you considered that having a far right candidate win 2 elections in a row, will not produce a progressive candidate you like in 4 years? Since you are an intelligent specimen, what part of your brain can deduce that in 4 years, there will be a progressive candidate? Can you explain to me, how removing progressives from the electorate, is going to help with progressive issues?

Have you considered the long term implications of removing progressives from the electorate, due to clairvoyance seeing a progressive candidate in 4 years?



Doing nothing is not a step forward. Don’t you think having fewer issues to deal with, when your imaginary progressive candidate in 4 years, starts fixing everything? If you have 0 empathy for people being hurt by the Trump administration, because Biden’s will only help some of them, your progressive views don’t seem to be about actually helping people. It seems more about pushing your ideology... after all, if Biden helps just 5% of the people Trump is damaging... that’s 16 million Americans that will not mind things going slower.



Well, before Trump... we had ACA, Paris Accord, Pandemic Response, deductibles, 15% higher tax on corporations, peace treaty with Iran, less travel restrictions, no threat of military in the streets, no trade war, no 2000 troops protecting Saudi oil, no bunker inspections as protestors rage, no accusing a protestors of being Antifa scanning cops, no QQ conspiracy and general embrace of conspiracy over education, clean water and air act, espestos would still be illegal, Blogoyovich would still be in jail, the schools at Fort Lewis would still all be open instead of funding going to the Wall... we see what happens when the lesser of two evils is not selected. How much time will your imaginary progressive candidate in 4 years going to spend fixing this and 4 more years of not selecting the lesser of two evils?

Oh and Jeb Bush’s son is woke... he is voting Trump...



Trump wouldn’t have won if people voted for lesser of two evils. Considering HillaryCare, odds are ACA would have been expended to a public option.

Actually they did vote for the lesser of too evils by about 4M votes more. HRC lost by less than 70k votes in 3 swing states to lose the EC vote. But in reality, people came out to vote HRC over Trump. It was a logistical win at best considering the GOP lost Senate and House seats as well.

[Felya]

Actually they did vote for the lesser of too evils by about 4M votes more. HRC lost by less than 70k votes in 3 swing states to lose the EC vote. But in reality, people came out to vote HRC over Trump. It was a logistical win at best considering the GOP lost Senate and House seats as well.

I would say we voted, if I believed a person encouraging people to not vote, actually voted in 2016.

[beanman12345]

A progressive who uses logic would observe that electing a president with 95% of Trump's policy agenda in exchange for having no progressive candidate for 8 years is not a good trade-off. You have to be a really dull intellectually not to take that into consideration and focus only on the short-term.

Here's another logical observation for you Jeb, letting things get worse slower is not a step forward.

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OK Jeb, since you are the genius here, can you tell us what "knowledge" we should use here? Such as how doing the exact same thing you've been doing since the 70's as electing the marginally less obnoxious corporate bitch has worked out for you? Did you think about that? How the same strategy you've been using for decades hasn't worked repeatedly? How it led to Trump winning in the first place? Can you explain how doing that exact same thing is somehow different this time?

You proved me wrong. I thought I was dealing with extreme ignorance, but seems the issue is an IQ smaller than Trumps. They do not have the same 95% policy agenda like that's just beyond dumb. Not that that even matters because with Biden we get a liberal SC judge to replace liberal RBG. With Trump we get a hardcore conservative SC judge to replace liberal RBG. "bu bu it'd be a neo lib wahhhhh" If it's a neo lib, they'd still be better for any progressive than a hardcore conservative. As I said any progressive with a modicum of logic, you getting mad at me for saying that, is like certain Trumpers getting mad that Hillary called some of them deplorable, the ones who knew it was about them, got mad. Not even sure why I'm responding to you burner, I'm wasting my time since stupidity can't be fixed. Back to just reporting you and ignoring you I go.

[arandomuser]

https://www.history.com/news/us-elec...rn-to-normalcy

wow crazy comparison today

"The four years leading up to the presidential election of 1920 had delivered a ghastly confluence of war, pestilence, terrorism and unemployment. As soon as World War I finished taking the lives of 100,000 Americans, a global influenza pandemic stole another 650,000 more. Race riots, labor strikes and a string of anarchist bombings—including one that slaughtered 38 people on Wall Street—rocked American cities following the war"

"Echoing his promise of a return to simpler, less chaotic times, Harding ran a campaign straight out of the 1890s, a time before the progressivism of Theodore Roosevelt, the idealism of Wilson and the turmoil of populism. While his Democratic opponent, Ohio Governor James M. Cox, travelled 22,000 miles around the country to hold campaign rallies, Harding rarely ventured further than his doorstep"
"Harding’s milquetoast personality and small-town appeal spoke to the times: He won by a landslide in both the Electoral College and the popular vote to become the 29th president of the United States"
So many comparisons, pandemic, civil unrest the attorney general blamed on bolsheviks and leftists, and harding didnt even campaign he literally stood in his house like biden and won 65% of the vote- i think biden shouldnt even do any campaign rallys just stay in his basement and let trump do the campaigning

[Gaidax]

i think biden shouldnt even do any campaign rallys just stay in his basement and let trump do the campaigning

It's not 1920.

That's how you lose elections.

[cubby]

Stacey Abrams on The View shutting down false narratives and owning the whole event like a boss.

Biden is going to pick a woman of color - so it's down to three (four) people:
Harris
Abrams
Demmings
Keisha Bottoms (long shot)

Abrams fits the bill, has state leadership experience and national name recognition. I'm officially placing my bet on her as the nominee.

[beanman12345]

Stacey Abrams on The View shutting down false narratives and owning the whole event like a boss.

Biden is going to pick a woman of color - so it's down to three (four) people:
Harris
Abrams
Demmings
Keisha Bottoms (long shot)

Abrams fits the bill, has state leadership experience and national name recognition. I'm officially placing my bet on her as the nominee.

I think you are probably right it being one of those 4, but I think Duckworth is also on the short list.

[cubby]

I think you are probably right it being one of those 4, but I think Duckworth is also on the short list.

Shit! I always forget about Duckworth. Definitely add her to the list. I mean I will, lol.

[Lenonis]

Shit! I always forget about Duckworth. Definitely add her to the list. I mean I will, lol.

I really like Duckworth and I think as a disabled vet she brings a lot of cred to groups of voters that might be on the fence about Biden.

I understand the arguments about a PoC VP -- but we keep focusing on racial minorities as voting blocs and ignore others...such as military and vets. Although the leadership within the military has a big tendency to be right wing the rank and file, not so much.

If I'm just being super cynical and calculating about it -- Trump's LAW AND ORDER rampage is shredding any support he'd have gotten from minorities otherwise and that's likely to resonate more with military folks -- so a VP that brings that group along is a better political calculation IMO than a minority one.

I also think Harris has some baggage as a prosecutor which could be problematic right now.

[cubby]

I really like Duckworth and I think as a disabled vet she brings a lot of cred to groups of voters that might be on the fence about Biden.

I understand the arguments about a PoC VP -- but we keep focusing on racial minorities as voting blocs and ignore others...such as military and vets. Although the leadership within the military has a big tendency to be right wing the rank and file, not so much.

If I'm just being super cynical and calculating about it -- Trump's LAW AND ORDER rampage is shredding any support he'd have gotten from minorities otherwise and that's likely to resonate more with military folks -- so a VP that brings that group along is a better political calculation IMO than a minority one.

I also think Harris has some baggage as a prosecutor which could be problematic right now.

I like Duckworth, too. Harris I don't think makes to the final round because of the baggage.

But for me, Abrams does three things - and misses in one, but it's actually a bonus.

1. PoC woman - which galvanizes the minority vote (the Democrats we're always going to get the minority vote, but having a minority on the ballot will help get more people out.
2. Experience & GA - she's been a GA leader for awhile, and should be Governor. Putting her on the tickets gets someone with terrific public presence, eviscerates opponents in debates, and puts Georgia's EC into play - as well as makes other southern states questionable for the GOP.
3. She doesn't fit the bill for any particular Cabinet post. Duckworth would make a perfect SecVA - hands down. Abrams doesn't have any one particular Cabinet "thing". So making her VP makes sense. AND...AND, since her "thing" is voter rights, spearheading the Voting Rights Commission would be perfect. She could galvanize the country to fix the voter suppression. Just a thought.

[Dansil]

No one in their right mind would say Biden and Trump share 95% of policy.

The converse is true. You have two neo-liberal candidates sucking wall st dick, offering private healthcare and more imperialist war.

Virtually everyone outside the US can see this because it is obvious. You don't see it because a) you are heavily brainwashed* by corporate media and b) have low standards of education and critical thinking.

* Just pointing out here Felya has literally never said anything bad about Biden and nothing good about Trump. I mean literally never. There's a dozen or so posters like that here. Just how likely is that to reflect the reality?

[Elegiac]

The converse is true. You have two neo-liberal candidates sucking wall st dick, offering private healthcare and more imperialist war.

Virtually everyone outside the US can see this because it is obvious. You don't see it because a) you are heavily brainwashed* by corporate media and b) have low standards of education and critical thinking.

Or it could be that you do not grasp the nature of the political situation in the US? Just a thought.

[Dansil]

You proved me wrong. I thought I was dealing with extreme ignorance, but seems the issue is an IQ smaller than Trumps. They do not have the same 95% policy agenda like that's just beyond dumb.

Wow what an amazing comeback. It is "dumb". I really wasted all that time studying politics. What a brilliant substantiation of your position.

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Or it could be that you do not grasp the nature of the political situation in the US? Just a thought.

You know you are literally parroting a response commonly used by Trump voters? "Trump is dumb as shit",-"YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE U S OF A!!!!!". It is a way for the intellectually limited to avoid having to coming up with an actual argument.

There isn't any special magic about you people, nothing particulary complex, unique or interesting about you culturally. The very reverse in fact, your predictability is tedious.

[Elegiac]

You know you are literally parroting a response commonly used by Trump voters? "Trump is dumb as shit",-"YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE U S OF A!!!!!". It is a way for the intellectually limited to avoid having to coming up with an actual argument.

Cool, I'll expound on it intellectually.

European leftists are not as well equipped to talk about American politics because they live in a political environment where the primary point of contention has been economic class and to a lesser extent religion, versus the United States and other postcolonial countries where the primary animus is racial.

Again, this is why Bernie lost twice; white progressives trying to import European progressivism wholesale without understanding it is not able to tackle many of America's principle issues.

There isn't any special magic about you people, nothing particulary complex, unique or interesting about you culturally. The very reverse in fact, your predictability is tedious.

I'm Greek-Australian, hun, so shove off with that nonsense. Secondly, "virtually everyone" outside the US does not live in a country with it's byzantine electoral structure and aren't forced to make the sorts of tactical voting decisions people in America are.

[Milchshake]

Reminder that when he said "malarkey" in the 2012 debate, he was covering that he was about to say "bullshit."
Paul Ryan does have delicate ear afterall.

Danny Deraney
Holy crap, Biden almost said racist f**ks just at his presser.

What a time to be alive!

[Elegiac]

Reminder that when he said "malarkey" in the 2012 debate, he was covering that he was about to say "bullshit."
Paul Ryan does have delicate ear afterall.

Danny Deraney
Holy crap, Biden almost said racist f**ks just at his presser.

What a time to be alive!

Only appropriate way to refer to a racist in public, honestly.

2021 America is a no malarkey zone.

[Dansil]

Cool, I'll expound on it intellectually.

European leftists are not as well equipped to talk about American politics because they live in a political environment where the primary point of contention has been economic class and to a lesser extent religion, versus the United States and other postcolonial countries where the primary animus is racial.

You think that's an intellectual response....

NO. First, Europe has sizeable ethnic minority populations and the difference between race relations in France or the UK and the US is mainly due to the relative lack of firearms: it is not accidental that copycat actions by black minorities in other countries followed Floyd's murder.

Second, it has been proven in several different studies that the quality of life in the US is pretty much identical for black, white, hispanic etc when adjustments are made for socio-economic bracket. There are some marginal effects to do with availability of childcare but the studies vary between "little" and "none" when assessing race-based differences. In short: it is about money. Nothing else.



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I'm Greek-Australian, hun, so shove off with that nonsense. Secondly, "virtually everyone" outside the US does not live in a country with it's byzantine electoral structure and aren't forced to make the sorts of tactical voting decisions people in America are.

Weird electoral systems are not specific to the US, and tactical voting decisions are if anything more common in Europe with the general popularity of PR. .

[Elegiac]

You think that's an intellectual response....

Don't blame you for your lack of familiarity, honestly.

NO. First, Europe has sizeable ethnic populations and the difference between France or the UK and the US is mainly due to the relative lack of firearms: it is not accidental that copycat actions by black minorities in other countries followed Floyd's murder

"Sizeable ethnic populations"? Yeah - very recently, and their lack of experience with such is part of the reason there's been such an issue with refugee populations. European countries have until recently been net exporters of people and, especially since 1918, pretty ethnoreligiously homogenous.

The US has always been a net importer of people and from its foundation had to grapple with the issues of large minority populations. About 3/5ths of the time, I'd say.

"It's mainly due to a lack of firearms" he said before mentioning George Floyd who was not shot.

Secon,d it has been proven in several different studies that the quality of life in the US is pretty much identical for black, white, hispanic etc when adjustments are made for socio-economic bracket. There are some marginal effects to do with availability of childcare but the studies vary between "little" and "none" when assessing race-based differences. In short: it is about money. Nothing else.

> "European progressives are totally equipped to discuss issues of systemic racism!"
> Repeats right wing talking points claiming that systemic racism doesn't exist.

If you'll step out of your size 42 squeaky shoes for a moment, you might realise that what you're doing here is exactly the thing I was cricitising Bernie's campaign for doing.

Weird electoral systems are not specific to the US, and tactical voting decisions are if anything more common in Europe with the general popularity of PR. .

No; but the US' electoral system is specific to the US.

PR means that third parties are guaranteed representation and the US' electoral system is zero sum which defaults to a binary choice. "Tactical voting in Europe", ha. What a crock.