Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Santti]

There's a wonderful line in the Simpsons, where Ned Flanders, while praying, says he was following the Bible -- "even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff".

The Bible is a complex work, written by multiple people over the span of centuries, meaning some of the authors never met each other.

There's a part where Jesus tells the Disciples to get swords (Luke 22:36-38)

There's multiple parts where servants of God flat-out kill people. Remember the part where Moses friggin' drowns the entire Egyptian army? (Exodus 14:28) These are people who are just chasing a guy who stole all their slaves -- and the Bible has some things to say about slavery, too (Paul's letter to the Colossians 3: 22).

And yes, if you look hard enough -- past the part about not eating pork, not eating mixed fibers, not wearing gold, no tattoos, that kind of thing -- you find the bit about Sodom and Gomorrah, yes, Sodom as in "sodomy". Oh, and it's Old Testament -- Leviticus 20:13 to be precise -- and yet,you rarely hear about the Jewish faith taking such pains to exclude or punish homosexuality as you hear from New Testament followers. Well, claimed New Testament followers.

And anyone who claims to be a follower of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by hating and condemning homosexuals not only misses the grander point -- the point you made yourself, the one Colbert has pointed out too, that Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality but says Love Thy Neighbor over and over -- but had to intentionally go verse-hunting to find an excuse to do so. This is a lot like saying "If I fire my gun randomly into this crowd of people, it will just so happen to only hit the wicked and miss the innocent". It's whatever the holy version of cherry picking is. And this is from a book that can't even be consistent about haircuts. Haircuts. Ain't that topical?

It's nearly impossible, if not completely impossible, to adhere to every single word of a book written by multiple authors over hundreds of years consistently, regardless of the subject matter. If you try, you might find yourself following a thief, and adulterer, and idolator, who can't get "render unto Caesar" right, let alone everything about peace, love, forgiveness, and going to church every once in a while.

It's like they wanted to use the Bible as directions, but were holding it upside-down.

Stupid sexy Flanders!

It's a neat deal, though. You pick the parts you like as they are, and explain away the parts you dislike as allegories or what-he-meant-was.

[Lanrefni]

There's a wonderful line in the Simpsons, where Ned Flanders, while praying, says he was following the Bible -- "even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff".

The Bible is a complex work, written by multiple people over the span of centuries, meaning some of the authors never met each other.

There's a part where Jesus tells the Disciples to get swords (Luke 22:36-38)

There's multiple parts where servants of God flat-out kill people. Remember the part where Moses friggin' drowns the entire Egyptian army? (Exodus 14:28) These are people who are just chasing a guy who stole all their slaves -- and the Bible has some things to say about slavery, too (Paul's letter to the Colossians 3: 22).

And yes, if you look hard enough -- past the part about not eating pork, not eating mixed fibers, not wearing gold, no tattoos, that kind of thing -- you find the bit about Sodom and Gomorrah, yes, Sodom as in "sodomy". Oh, and it's Old Testament -- Leviticus 20:13 to be precise -- and yet,you rarely hear about the Jewish faith taking such pains to exclude or punish homosexuality as you hear from New Testament followers. Well, claimed New Testament followers.

And anyone who claims to be a follower of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by hating and condemning homosexuals not only misses the grander point -- the point you made yourself, the one Colbert has pointed out too, that Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality but says Love Thy Neighbor over and over -- but had to intentionally go verse-hunting to find an excuse to do so. This is a lot like saying "If I fire my gun randomly into this crowd of people, it will just so happen to only hit the wicked and miss the innocent". It's whatever the holy version of cherry picking is. And this is from a book that can't even be consistent about haircuts. Haircuts. Ain't that topical?

It's nearly impossible, if not completely impossible, to adhere to every single word of a book written by multiple authors over hundreds of years consistently, regardless of the subject matter. If you try, you might find yourself following a thief, and adulterer, and idolator, who can't get "render unto Caesar" right, let alone everything about peace, love, forgiveness, and going to church every once in a while.

It's like they wanted to use the Bible as directions, but were holding it upside-down.

My favorite part about the Old Testament is that if you're not Jewish none of those laws even fucking apply to you.

[Felya]

My favorite part about the Old Testament is that if you're not Jewish none of those laws even fucking apply to you.

It’s funny if you juxtaposition how Sodom is referenced from the Old Testament, but if you touch our bacon, there will be hell to pay!

[Breccia]

@Benggaul would have posted this eventually.

New York is making the U.S.' coronavirus trends look better than they are

I'll save you the reading, a graph is worth a thousand numbers.



- - - Updated - - -

So let's talk about North Korea.

"It's fucked?"

Well, yeah, but that's a pre-existing condition. Let's talk about something more recent, Trump's Nobel Prize.

North Korea officially declared an end Friday to its diplomatic dalliance with the U.S. But experts say it’s been clear for some time that President Donald Trump’s bold but risky effort to sweet talk Kim Jong into relinquishing his nuclear weapons never really went anywhere.

Two high-profile meetings with North Korea’s leader bought Trump a hiatus from bellicose rhetoric and nuclear tests, but Kim never stopped building nuclear warheads and the missiles to deliver them, U.S. intelligence officials and private analysts say.

Now, on the second anniversary of that first Trump-Kim summit in Singapore, North Korea is renouncing the diplomacy while promising to expand its weapons program, even as experts say it is ever closer to perfecting a long-range missile capable of reaching and destroying an American city.

Trump therefore joins a long list of presidents who tried and failed to cut a deal to get rid of North Korean nuclear weapons — but the first one who met face to face with the leader of the outlaw regime, lending it a measure of legitimacy. Trump at one point mused that he and Kim “fell in love,” and he showered praise on a dictator who is said by human rights groups to keep tens of thousands of political prisoners in vast gulags.

Trump made a series of other concessions, including the unilateral cancellation of joint U.S. and South Korean missile exercises. He got very little in return.

“In terms of the so-called goals of the summit, we made no progress in any of those things,” said Victor Cha, a former White House adviser to President George W. Bush and now senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and an NBC News contributor. “And this was arguably the one piece of diplomacy into which Trump put all of his personal capital.”

Trump famously proclaimed on Twitter that Americans can “sleep well at night” knowing that North Korea was prepared to give up its nuclear weapons and that “there is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea."

“None of that was true,” said Bruce Klingner, a former CIA analyst and North Korea watcher at the right-leaning Heritage Foundation. “And what we’ve seen since then from leaked intelligence assessments and commercial satellite imagery is that they’ve expanded and improved production facilities for fissile material, missile production, mobile re-entry vehicles and launch vehicles. And they’ve probably built eight or more additional nuclear weapons.”

And North Korea never gave us that Christmas gift they promised.

Because of how NBC News does their site, there's more information here and here. The anniversary thing really makes the point clear.

"Oh, who said anniversaries were that important?"

Oh, Trump did. By putting his rally on "Juneteenth". So, NK trolls Trump in public once again.

Unrelated, but interesting:

Kentucky to remove statue of Confederate leader Jefferson Davis from Capitol

Team Trump was caught claiming donations to BLM were funneled to Democratic campaigns. He deleted the tweet, but the internet never forgets.

The US death rate for COVID-19 is 100 times greater than the listed rate of China. Obviously, China's probably lying and there are news of a new outbreak in a market, but on their face that's pretty bad news for the US. Per capita, [url=https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality]the US is fourth behind France, Italy, and the UK.

And more and more polls have Biden with a slim lead in battleground states like Texas. The Party of Trump is understandably concerned. Not only is a path to EC victory without Texas basically impossible, but they're likely to lose some TX House seats as well.

[Santti]

Do Trump's arms just not go higher than his stomach without help, or what? Help with the shaking?

Some people in the Twitbook connected that with dementia. I've little experience with it, but it does seem quite plausible.

That, or the mention of Vietnam did indeed made his bone spurs flare up.

[s_bushido]

Do Trump's arms just not go higher than his stomach without help, or what?

That was...strange...to watch. I wouldn't read too much into it though. Looks like "old man with old man health problems" sort of stuff. Which wouldn't really be that big a deal if this wasn't the narcissistic dumbass who paid some doctor to reassure the American public that he was the leading example of Alpha Male Health and Virility.

[Zan15]

There's a wonderful line in the Simpsons, where Ned Flanders, while praying, says he was following the Bible -- "even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff".

The Bible is a complex work, written by multiple people over the span of centuries, meaning some of the authors never met each other.

There's a part where Jesus tells the Disciples to get swords (Luke 22:36-38)

There's multiple parts where servants of God flat-out kill people. Remember the part where Moses friggin' drowns the entire Egyptian army? (Exodus 14:28) These are people who are just chasing a guy who stole all their slaves -- and the Bible has some things to say about slavery, too (Paul's letter to the Colossians 3: 22).

And yes, if you look hard enough -- past the part about not eating pork, not eating mixed fibers, not wearing gold, no tattoos, that kind of thing -- you find the bit about Sodom and Gomorrah, yes, Sodom as in "sodomy". Oh, and it's Old Testament -- Leviticus 20:13 to be precise -- and yet,you rarely hear about the Jewish faith taking such pains to exclude or punish homosexuality as you hear from New Testament followers. Well, claimed New Testament followers.

And anyone who claims to be a follower of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by hating and condemning homosexuals not only misses the grander point -- the point you made yourself, the one Colbert has pointed out too, that Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality but says Love Thy Neighbor over and over -- but had to intentionally go verse-hunting to find an excuse to do so. This is a lot like saying "If I fire my gun randomly into this crowd of people, it will just so happen to only hit the wicked and miss the innocent". It's whatever the holy version of cherry picking is. And this is from a book that can't even be consistent about haircuts. Haircuts. Ain't that topical?

It's nearly impossible, if not completely impossible, to adhere to every single word of a book written by multiple authors over hundreds of years consistently, regardless of the subject matter. If you try, you might find yourself following a thief, and adulterer, and idolator, who can't get "render unto Caesar" right, let alone everything about peace, love, forgiveness, and going to church every once in a while.

It's like they wanted to use the Bible as directions, but were holding it upside-down.

Don't forget apparently its evil to be homosexual, but going into a cave with your young daughters and getting them both pregnant made Lot a superstar in the bible.

Living in an isolated area after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot's two daughters conspired to inebriate and seduce their father due to the lack of available partners. Because of intoxication, Lot "perceived not" when his firstborn, and the following night his younger daughter, lay with him.

[Breccia]

Do Trump's arms just not go higher than his stomach without help, or what?

Truth be told, with his signature thumbs up from the bulging waistline, I was asking myself that the other day.

But there are too many shots of him with raised arms. I think it's more effort for him to raise his arms than it should be, but I think he can do it.

[Thepersona]

Don't forget apparently its evil to be homosexual, but going into a cave with your young daughters and getting them both pregnant made Lot a superstar in the bible.

Living in an isolated area after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot's two daughters conspired to inebriate and seduce their father due to the lack of available partners. Because of intoxication, Lot "perceived not" when his firstborn, and the following night his younger daughter, lay with him.

Putting your penis in the anus of other male (or female) is bad, but fucking your own daughters is fine and dandy.

And also, if you rape a virgin girl, cue the rocks for the girl.

[D Luniz]

He did lose Papa Johns? Wasnt that CEO a huge dick? i thought he'd be right at home at FOX!

yes, and that's why he isn't the CEO anymore, and why Pizza Hut is the official pizza of the NFL

[caervek]

One of the big problems with the debate around historical statues is IMO the romantic idea of good vs bad people seem to have.

Back in the days of the slave trade there were essentially three types of people, the slaves, the people actively engaging in slavery, and the people who wanted to be actively engaging in slavery but couldn't afford it. If people want to get rid of X statue because he was into slavery that's cool but they should also be in favour of removing practically every statue erected before the year 2000 as approximately 100% of them represent a slaver or a racist or a homophobe or a misogynist or a transphobe. Hell they should be campaigning to pull down mount Rushmore while they're at it. And while they're at that they may wanna burn any pictures/paintings they have of their great grandparents or any older ancestors because they would have been just as bigoted.

I wonder how up for destroying confederate statues people would be if each one required the destruction of a civil war era union statue? After all that war was essentially a economic war between a bunch of northern racists and a bunch of southern racists fighting over farms vs plantations. Lincoln didn't throw the slavery card in until he realised he was going to lose the war and any chance of re-election unless he did something drastic.

[Thepersona]

One of the big problems with the debate around historical statues is IMO the romantic idea of good vs bad people seem to have.

Back in the days of the slave trade there were essentially three types of people, the slaves, the people actively engaging in slavery, and the people who wanted to be actively engaging in slavery but couldn't afford it. If people want to get rid of X statue because he was into slavery that's cool but they should also be in favour of removing practically every statue erected before the year 2000 as approximately 100% of them represent a slaver or a racist or a homophobe or a misogynist or a transphobe. Hell they should be campaigning to pull down mount Rushmore while they're at it. And while they're at that they may wanna burn any pictures/paintings they have of their great grandparents or any older ancestors because they would have been just as bigoted.

I wonder how up for destroying confederate statues people would be if each one required the destruction of a civil war era union statue? After all that war was essentially a economic war between a bunch of northern racists and a bunch of southern racists fighting over farms vs plantations. Lincoln didn't throw the slavery card in until he realised he was going to lose the war and any chance of re-election unless he did something drastic.

The northern states abolished slavery. That was the sole reason for the south to secede. Fuck off.

[beanman12345]

That is some terrible photoshop, like they didn't even try. That arm though.

[solinari6]

I look forward to the retraction and apology.

"A FoxNews.com home page photo collage which originally accompanied this story included multiple scenes from Seattle's 'Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone' and of wreckage following recent riots," the note read. "The collage did not clearly delineate between these images, and has since been replaced. In addition, a recent slideshow depicting scenes from Seattle mistakenly included a picture from St. Paul. Fox News regrets these errors."
and
"We have replaced our photo illustration with the clearly delineated images of a gunman and a shattered storefront, both of which were taken this week in Seattle's autonomous zone," a Fox News spokesperson told the newspaper.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/13/media...est/index.html

[Breccia]

One of the big problems with the debate around historical statues is IMO the romantic idea of good vs bad people seem to have.

Are...are you suggesting owning slaves is going to come back into fashion? Because I personally am of the idea that slave owning will never be American ever again.

Also, please don't use Slippery Slope arguments. It makes it seem like you're not posting in good faith.

Speaking of spineless cowards who picked the wrong side and don't want to be remembered as losers who defended evil even though they are losers who defended evil, Mike Pence is now on the record as to why he wasn't also at the church, holding a Bible upside-down.

I was at the White House. And I was actually encouraged to stay at the White House out of an abundance of caution. It was obviously a volatile environment at moments, and so I was encouraged to remain.

But I would have been happy to walk shoulder to shoulder across Lafayette Park with President Trump

"Also," he didn't add but I'm pretending he did, "we were taking a tour of the bunker during the daytime. And Trump would be happy to present his taxes, but he's being audited. Since 2000. Out of an abundance of caution."

I see the SS was taking an abundance of caution to protect Pence, but not Trump. Hmm. Wonder if all that unpaid overtime and underfunding is showing its head.

[DarkTZeratul]

After all that war was essentially a economic war between a bunch of northern racists and a bunch of southern racists fighting over farms vs plantations. Lincoln didn't throw the slavery card in until he realised he was going to lose the war and any chance of re-election unless he did something drastic.

Bullshit. Despite a considerable amount of after-the-fact historical revisionism, the South was EXTREMELY clear that they were seceding primarily because the North wanted to abolish slavery, and they didn't.

And since I wouldn't make such proclamations without evidence:

From Confederate Vice Present Alexander H. Stephens' "Cornerstone Speech" a few weeks before the Civil War:
"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. [...] Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. [...] Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

From the South Carolina Declaration of Secession:
"The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution."

From the Mississippi Declaration of Secession:
"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery--the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

Florida's declaration of secession was a simple statement with no mention of causes, but John C. McGee, president of the Florida convention that voted on secession, said at the convention:
"At the South and with our people, of course, slavery is the element of all value, and a destruction of that destroys all that is property."

Several other states' declarations, while making no direct mention of slavery as a cause, referred to joining with "the other slave-holding states."

So when you try to say that slavery only came into play as the last act of a desperate President Lincoln... Well, as Thepersona put it, you can just fuck right off.

[solinari6]

Aaak! You never let one of those "the civil war wasn't about slavery" people derail a thread! You just put them on your ignore list and move on!

[Mekkle]

Man police are hungry for blood this month. Yet another murder. These protests alone are gonna ruin trump more then his own mouth at this rate.
https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/13/atlan...ck-man-wendys/

[Belize]

That is some terrible photoshop, like they didn't even try. That arm though.

Flat arm syndrome is a very serious condition, don't mock the poor boy!

[Yadryonych]

Fox News runs digitally altered images in coverage of Seattle’s protests, Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

I look forward to the retraction and apology.

I wouldn't believe any side on this, both are extremely biased and knowing a bit of internet magic you can make screenshots of any site posting pics of naked furry girls or hitler riding unicorn