Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Redwyrm]

This appears to be the best place to plop this down. It doesn't get much clearer than this.

[cubby]

Someone was gonna win the primary. Enthusiasm is kinda irrelevant there.

Biden won because people thought he was more electable, despite Bernie representing their best interests far better. They made a mistake.

They feared the "socialism" attack ads would be super effective vs. Bernie. Well looky here, they are still using the "socialism" attack ads, to great effect, against.....center right biden.

People continue to try and claim "Bernie would have done better" with absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE to back up that claim. And Bernie lost the Primary - which may or may not be an indication of his performance in the General - it is the ONLY objective proof we have of his electability in a national endeavor.

[postman1782]

Where are all you links for Trump's misspeaks again? We'll wait for those links...

It's sad that Trumpkins only have this to use.

You are going to be waiting a while. Just like when Trump claimed there were airports during the Revolutionary War.

[cubby]

Yep. When Biden misspeaks, he owns up to it and corrects himself.

When Trump lies, he doubles down on it and refuses to admit he was wrong. See also: Sharpiegate.

That would have been a one day story at best if he had just said 'My tweet was based on outdated information and I apologize if I created any unnecessary confusion or panic".

I could not agree more. And in fact, it's the attribute of Trump that is the most fearful of all - his inability to admit a mistake. It should be a prerequisite for the Office.

[DingDongKing]

This appears to be the best place to plop this down. It doesn't get much clearer than this.

Lindsey Graham is just another fucking worm. Just like Rubio, McConnell, Cruz and all the other hypocrites in the GOP. Cunts, the lot of them.

[Hinastorm]

And from all accounts, those attacks are having about the same impact as bunny farts. Also, Biden, center right? He's a moderate, not conservative.

Biden being a centrist is part of the reason those 'Biden is a radical socialist!' attacks aren't really working. Bidens appeal, in my opinion, lies in his 'boring' nature; people want a return to normality adn stability after the chaos of the past four years but especially this year with the pandemic and Trumps utterly incompetent handling of it. Biden promises basically a normal 'boring' Presidency compared to Trump.

Biden has a pretty simple argument to make, which is to ask "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" and I think the answer for a lot of people is 'No'.

The attack ads aren't working on the left, but they're not intended for the left. They're intended for his idiot supporters to get them to show up to vote out of fear. They're working in that regard, but he could say literally anything bad and his dupes would believe it, so...ya, idk.

My point still stands, people voted for Biden because they thought he was "more electable". That was, and is, bullshit.

[Bodakane]

So 2016 then? Going to assume 2016 because we're talking about the Presidential election.

Those 80M votes do matter, never said they didn't. My point is that there wouldn't be more this year if Bernie had won the nomination. Because he didn't bring out more in the Primary, even though they are different processes - we're talking about a percentage increase in any one group of people (young voters in this case).

How can you possibly square that fucking circle? 80 million didn't vote in the primary, so according to you and your actual lack of facts, the only way to get those people to vote...is in the primaries....i mean what the actual fuck cubby?

I have presented facts and links. You have not. You couldn't be arguing in any more of a bad faith way than any russian Trump supporter at this point.

[Zaydin]

The attack ads aren't working on the left, but they're not intended for the left. They're intended for his idiot supporters to get them to show up to vote out of fear. They're working in that regard, but he could say literally anything bad and his dupes would believe it, so...ya, idk.

My point still stands, people voted for Biden because they thought he was "more electable". That was, and is, bullshit.

If Bernie was such a great candidate, why did he lose to Biden, the guy you think is terrible?

And if Bernie lost to Biden, who you claim is bad, what makes you think he could beat Trump?

[Bodakane]

People continue to try and claim "Bernie would have done better" with absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE to back up that claim. And Bernie lost the Primary - which may or may not be an indication of his performance in the General - it is the ONLY objective proof we have of his electability in a national endeavor.

I gave you evidence to support my well thought out and clear claim. You can disagree with my stance but this lying you're doing is just wrong. You also have done nothing in the way of defending your point or even actually addressing mine. This is very very very bad faith on your part.

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If Bernie was such a great candidate, why did he lose to Biden, the guy you think is terrible?

And if Bernie lost to Biden, who you claim is bad, what makes you think he could beat Trump?

Hinastorm literally just explained it to you. Dear god what is with all these people just flat out ignoring points they don't like?

[Antiganon]

Where are all you links for Trump's misspeaks again? We'll wait for those links...

It's sad that Trumpkins only have this to use.

It's fine, the herd mentality will protect us from COVID.

[jonnysensible]

The attack ads aren't working on the left, but they're not intended for the left. They're intended for his idiot supporters to get them to show up to vote out of fear. They're working in that regard, but he could say literally anything bad and his dupes would believe it, so...ya, idk.

My point still stands, people voted for Biden because they thought he was "more electable". That was, and is, bullshit.

i always though they were intended to blind dopey democratcs into thinking they should go soft on these dipshit republicans as a form of entryism given the people behind the lincoln project are massive baddies

[Zaydin]

I gave you evidence to support my well thought out and clear claim. You can disagree with my stance but this lying you're doing is just wrong. You also have done nothing in the way of defending your point or even actually addressing mine. This is very very very bad faith on your part.

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Hinastorm literally just explained it to you. Dear god what is with all these people just flat out ignoring points they don't like?

Okay, great. If Bernie was so great surely he could have successfully argued that he was the more electable candidate. Yet he didn't.

So I'm just going to repeat myself: The candidate you claim was great lost, and lost substantially, to the guy you claim is terrible.

I don't know why you Bernie bros can't accept that the Democratic electorate on average isn't uber liberal.

If you want candidates like Bernie to win primaries, then they need to do a better job selling themselves to primary voters. Because on that metric, Bernie failed miserably.

[cubby]

I gave you evidence to support my well thought out and clear claim. You can disagree with my stance but this lying you're doing is just wrong. You also have done nothing in the way of defending your point or even actually addressing mine. This is very very very bad faith on your part.

You actually didn't. You just think you did, which is much worse.

I'm sorry you can't see logic anymore. It's disappointing, to say the very least. When you're ready to come back to the table, let us know, and we can chat. Until then enjoy your unsupported "feels".

Hinastorm literally just explained it to you. Dear god what is with all these people just flat out ignoring points they don't like?

Someone didn't read the entire post....

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Okay, great. If Bernie was so great surely he could have successfully argued that he was the more electable candidate. Yet he didn't.

So I'm just going to repeat myself: The candidate you claim was great lost, and lost substantially, to the guy you claim is terrible.

I don't know why you Bernie bros can't accept that the Democratic electorate on average isn't uber liberal.

If you want candidates like Bernie to win primaries, then they need to do a better job selling themselves to primary voters. Because on that metric, Bernie failed miserably.

It's pretty obviously he's so blinded by whatever Bernie is to him that logic and reasoning are no longer accessible to him. Hinastorm even pointed out his arguments logic problems and he blindly ignored it, and then claimed it was proof he was right.

At some point you just have to give up - @Bodakane is clearly not willing to listen to reason. The response regarding Hinastorm is clear evidence of that.

[Bodakane]

Okay, great. If Bernie was so great surely he could have successfully argued that he was the more electable candidate. Yet he didn't.

So I'm just going to repeat myself: The candidate you claim was great lost, and lost substantially, to the guy you claim is terrible.

I don't know why you Bernie bros can't accept that the Democratic electorate on average isn't uber liberal.

If you want candidates like Bernie to win primaries, then they need to do a better job selling themselves to primary voters. Because on that metric, Bernie failed miserably.

#1 I'm not a Bernie bro. I preferred Warren by a far margin. And I'm willingly voting for Biden and have stated all of that multiple times.
#2 Your benchmark isn;t real.
#3 People like you & Cubby are why this country is moving further and further right, because vote by what you think is the safe pick based on flawed notion that independents are moderates.

[Antiganon]

People continue to try and claim "Bernie would have done better" with absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE to back up that claim. And Bernie lost the Primary - which may or may not be an indication of his performance in the General - it is the ONLY objective proof we have of his electability in a national endeavor.

Bernie's primary performance is not indicative of his potential general election performance. They are different contests, which different voters in play, different kinds of messaging, wildly different attacks from the opposition, etc.

Comparing the two is not useful for debate. Especially not at this stage when any possible point that anyone could make is 100% moot.

[Bodakane]

I'm sorry you can't see logic anymore. It's disappointing, to say the very least. When you're ready to come back to the table, let us know, and we can chat. Until then enjoy your unsupported "feels".




Someone didn't read the entire post....

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It's pretty obviously he's so blinded by whatever Bernie is to him that logic and reasoning are no longer accessible to him. Hinastorm even pointed out his arguments logic problems and he blindly ignored it, and then claimed it was proof he was right.

At some point you just have to give up - @Bodakane is clearly not willing to listen to reason. The response regarding Hinastorm is clear evidence of that.

This is horseshit. You should be ashamed off yourself. You haven't given any reason. None. No facts, no reasons. You can't even address my actual points. It is cowardly and bad faith. I misjudged you immensely.

[Antiganon]

I gave you evidence to support my well thought out and clear claim. You can disagree with my stance but this lying you're doing is just wrong. You also have done nothing in the way of defending your point or even actually addressing mine. This is very very very bad faith on your part.

You haven't actually given any evidence though, because it doesn't exist. You've linked plenty of analysis, but the plural of analysis isn't data, and the analyses you linked are based on conjecture and polls that even the pollsters openly tell you to take with a huge grain of salt.

You are arguing the unprovable. Please stop.

[cubby]

#1 I'm not a Bernie bro. I preferred Warren by a far margin. And I'm willingly voting for Biden and have stated all of that multiple times.
#2 Your benchmark isn;t real.
#3 People like you & Cubby are why this country is moving further and further right, because vote by what you think is the safe pick based on flawed notion that independents are moderates.

Look at you, making assumptions based on nothing.

Warren was my first choice, too - I voted for her in the Primary.

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This is horseshit. You should be ashamed off yourself. You haven't given any reason. None. No facts, no reasons. You can't even address my actual points. It is cowardly and bad faith. I misjudged you immensely.

I guess you have nothing left, now that you've been proven wrong, but personal attacks and childish lashing-outs.

It's not surprising, given your post history. It's just disappointing.

[Bodakane]

You haven't actually given any evidence though, because it doesn't exist. You've linked plenty of analysis, but the plural of analysis isn't data, and the analyses you linked are based on conjecture and polls that even the pollsters openly tell you to take with a huge grain of salt.

You are arguing the unprovable. Please stop.

I did. I gave evidence to support my claim. I used the facts that we have to craft my stance. As I said in the post you just quoted, you can disagree with my stance if you want that's fine. My issue with cubby is that he has repeatedly not given a single reason as to why primaries are indicative of the general. Not a fact, not even an explanation. Literally nothing. He just says it is so. There's no line of reasoning to follow or anything. He'll do it to you too.

Here, facts in red and bold (posted links and everything), my opinion based on those facts in blue:
Hillary is moderate and more independents voted for Trump than Hillary. That likely means independents are NOT moderate.

No one argued that. No one addressed it. Even though the entirety of their strategy is literally predicated on the fact that independents = moderate. That's just one example of the many points I made in a similar fashion with similar results. No debate, no addressing my points, just cubby shouting me down while providing nothing in the way of his stance at all. its wrong.

[draynay]

Warren was my first choice, too - I voted for her in the Primary.

Sometimes it seems like everybody on this forum did, wtf happened? Stupid everyone who doesn't post here ruined it for us.