Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[szechuan]

Moderator: What will you do if Trump refuses to leave?

Fly Pence: Obama Spied on me

[cubby]

It was such a weird debate. Trump is a bombastic spaz, and Pence is the most deadpan person I've ever seen. I don't think anyone gained any ground, but even though Pence like didn't answer any questions, it felt somewhat like a normal debate, at least when compared to last week.

I have to agree, it was a pretty normal, straight forward debate.

[Felya]

It is beyond ridiculous to blame anyone for the covid virus deaths but China for not containing it well enough. There are many nations suffering from it. Not just the US.

Yeah, why didn’t other countries suffer the same death count? Why did Trump’s China travel ban, only ban nationals and permitted a covid carrier to travel to Boston for a Bio conference... then to California... then back to China... they traced covid to her, across Boston and California... what’s up with that?

[Thepersona]

It is beyond ridiculous to blame anyone for the covid virus deaths but China for not containing it well enough. There are many nations suffering from it. Not just the US.

Lol nope. You can blame the Chinese for not reporting their shenanigans with due haste (which in part happened because of normal bureaucracy and you know, this being a new virus), but you cannot dodge blame when the president of your country calls, repeteadly for the opening of it, and berates the usage of masks as a stupid thing. Stop with your crap, and own the failures of Trump, as his supporter.

[beanman12345]

It is beyond ridiculous to blame anyone for the covid virus deaths but China for not containing it well enough. There are many nations suffering from it. Not just the US.

It's the trump virus. It is what it is.

[noidentity]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ml?jwsource=cl

There were a few interruptions during the debate but it was mostly just going over the allotted time, I laughed hard when Kamala talked to Pence like a child but i was more shocked he actually stopped talking.

[Kallisto]

This. It makes me so angry that Joe and Kamala aren’t pointing out every time they are asked that the GOtrumP is already packing the courts (and that they, by the way, have a plan to reform and depoliticize the courts)

She did point it out during the debate though

[Omega10]

If Pence failed to make up any ground then he lost the debate. That's because the Trump campaign is currently bleeding to death and Pence 'winning' the debate was vital for them to plug the wound long enough to stop from bleeding to death.

Unfortunately for the Trump campaign, Pence has the charisma of a plank of wood and is about as likeable as a cockroach.

My take on it is that Harris showed that she would be fine with the title Vice President Harris. And, President Harris if necessary.

I think that overall she projected both strength and empathy. Show knows how to play the game, and will be strong for the US as either Vice President or President.

Overall results:

1) Kamala Harris
2) The fly
3) Pence

[Edge-]

It is beyond ridiculous to blame anyone for the covid virus deaths but China for not containing it well enough. There are many nations suffering from it. Not just the US.

Absolutely not. We can compare our response to the response of other developed nation, which it's largely worse than. Only the UK has a higher death rate than us in the west, and they're a shitshow as well.

[beanman12345]

Lol nope. You can blame the Chinese for not reporting their shenanigans with due haste (which in part happened because of normal bureaucracy and you know, this being a new virus), but you cannot dodge blame when the president of your country calls, repeteadly for the opening of it, and berates the usage of masks as a stupid thing. Stop with your crap, and own the failures of Trump, as his supporter.

Can't even blame Chinese for not reporting it, since Trump knew everything about it back in January.

[Thelxi]

That was great. A lot happened, but I think overall they both did a great job. The moderator got steamrolled by both, but they kept it civil. Yes Pence probably did end up with more airtime by going overtime while avoiding and deflecting most questions, but Kamala looked pretty damn good, assertive and civilized.

They both filled the gaps that Trump and Biden left last debate. Kamala very comprehensively laid out clear plans, policy and political positions, while Pence humanized the Trump ticket a bit and maybe made it a bit more palatable for some people to vote for Trump. I really think they both did well, maybe even equally well. Which is a good thing. Biden is actually gaining momentum atm so anything that doesn't disrupt that is great.

[Rasulis]

Another Biden exaggeration.....https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/06...-off-by-16073/

Democratic Presidential Nominee Joe Biden falsely claimed that former President Barack Obama granted pardons and reduced sentences for criminal charges to 18,000 people in his NBC town hall Monday night.

The blunder occurred when town hall host NBC News’s Lester Holt asked Biden a question about his record with criminal justice reform during his time in the White House with Obama.

“He points to the Criminal Justice Reform Bill. As you and Barack Obama served at a time when you had both houses of Congress and still couldn’t get some of these things done,” Holt noted.

Biden quickly interjected and attempted to defend himself.

“Yeah we did,” Biden insisted. “We led…18,000 people got clemency.”

Records from the United States Department of Justice demonstrate, however, that only 1,715 people were granted reduced sentences and only 212 were pardoned by former President Obama and former Vice President Biden over their eight years in office together. Contrary to Biden’s exaggerated claims, the Obama administration actually denied forms of clemency such as commutations and pardons to over 20,000 people.

Biden is like my favorite old uncle. Sometimes he exaggerated his stories. I know that and I didn't care. Bottom line is he is a nice guy, he meant well, and I like him.

As for Trump - he is the amalgamation of the worst aspects and base instincts of every single greedy and lying developers that I have ever met.

[Thepersona]

Absolutely not. We can compare our response to the response of other developed nation, which it's largely worse than. Only the UK has a higher death rate than us in the west, and they're a shitshow as well.

If you consider Latin America part of the West, we also had a shitshow. Mostly because we have corrupt officials bought by corporations, inept officials, or both. And populists (Looking at you, Bolsonaro and Fernandez)

- - - Updated - - -

Can't even blame Chinese for not reporting it, since Trump knew everything about it back in January.

And as Kamala said, dismantled the pandemic response team, that was stationed in China. FFS this couldnt be worse if they tried.

[Elegiac]

And as Kamala said, dismantled the pandemic response team, that was stationed in China. FFS this couldnt be worse if they tried.

That feel when folks are trying to spread lies that were debunked in the debate, lol.

[Benggaul]

I like how you leave out the incompetence of trump.

GP says they're a one-issue voter. Ask him how he feels about Trump benefiting from "dead babies" as he calls them.

[Endus]

Lol nope. You can blame the Chinese for not reporting their shenanigans with due haste (which in part happened because of normal bureaucracy and you know, this being a new virus), but you cannot dodge blame when the president of your country calls, repeteadly for the opening of it, and berates the usage of masks as a stupid thing. Stop with your crap, and own the failures of Trump, as his supporter.

Let's also recall that at the time China was dealing with the virus, nothing was known of its transmission or much about its effects beyond the surface symptoms. China was reacting with no useful information to work from, so it shouldn't be that surprising that they made some guesses that turned out to be wrong, in the end.

The USA really doesn't have the same excuse, since those things were starting to be understood when the virus hit the USA in January, and certainly by February. This is why most other nations did fine in their responses, with a few exceptions like Spain and Italy that were swiftly corrected, though not before a lot of infection occurred. The USA basically never actually locked down in the way that was required to get a handle on this, which is why you never did.

Calling this the "China virus" is just a bullshit a propaganda move. China isn't responsible, particularly not for other nation's failure to take responsible measures to contain the pandemic.

[TigTone]

GP says they're a one-issue voter. Ask him how he feels about Trump benefiting from "dead babies" as he calls them.

I don’t think he’s coming back tonight. But I will next time he pops up.

[Rasulis]

It is beyond ridiculous to blame anyone for the covid virus deaths but China for not containing it well enough. There are many nations suffering from it. Not just the US.

Every time somebody say something like that, I refer them to the timeline of San Francisco response to Covid-19.

On January 21, with only a single confirmed case in the US, and President Trump still insisting he was “not at all” worried about a pandemic and that “we have it totally under control,” emergency preparedness plans were activated simultaneously at three major San Francisco institutions: the teaching hospital at UCSF Medical Center, SF General, and the Department of Public Health. The two hospitals canceled elective surgeries and cleared entire floors to create surge wards filled with intensive-care beds. the Department of Public Health streamlined command and control to focus the entire department on the novel coronavirus. Less than a week later, on January 27, Breed activated the city government's own Emergency Operations Center, preparing to coordinate a response across departments, plan outreach efforts, and commandeer city property and resources.

[Endus]

GP says they're a one-issue voter. Ask him how he feels about Trump benefiting from "dead babies" as he calls them.

I said in another post somewhere that I don't really think there's such a thing as a single-issue voter. I think they're zero-issue voters, who will blindly vote based on party affiliation, and they use that single issue as a justification for their refusal to critically think about their vote and what it means.

Which is why, if their candidates bail on that one issue, they generally don't actually change their vote.

[Omega10]

Can't even blame Chinese for not reporting it, since Trump knew everything about it back in January.

There is this article from January 21:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/19/a...hnk/index.html

Title: China confirms new coronavirus can spread between humans

Excerpt:

A mysterious respiratory virus that has killed at least three people and sickened more than 200 in China can be transmitted between humans, a Chinese government-appointed expert has said, fueling fears about the possibility of a deadly epidemic as millions prepare to travel for the Lunar New Year holiday.
Zhong Nanshan, head of the team set up by China's National Health Commission to investigate the pneumonia-like virus, confirmed that at least two cases had been spread from person to person and medical staff had also been infected.
Authorities had previously said that the new strain of coronavirus, which was traced by health officials to a seafood market in the central Chinese city of Wuhan, was primarily passed from animals to humans.

But at least two people have become infected in recent days, despite living hundreds of miles from Wuhan.
"The current cases show there is definitely human-to-human transmission," Zhong told Chinese state-run CCTV, explaining that two people in China's Guangdong province were infected by a family member who had recently returned from Wuhan.

Basically it was initially thought that the virus could only spread from animals to humans. Which could possibly be because initially it only DID spread from animals to humans and then mutated. When they could verify that there was human to human transmission, they reported it.

The origins of the virus is so politicized that there is no way that any investigation into what happened will produce any worthwhile results.