Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Gaidax]

And at this point, seeing just how long and hard Shalcker is pushing this, can't help but think that Russia is about ready to plan something and just has the troll army out in force trying to run online interference.

He's just a vatnik and a nationalist patriot. That all.

Not everyone who pushes Russian line is a troll, I'm sure the guy genuinely believes what he writes and roots for his country. It's not a crime or trolling really, there are plenty people in Russia who genuinely believe in the cause and support the leadership.

[Fugus]

He's just a vatnik and a nationalist patriot. That all.

Not everyone who pushes Russian line is a troll, I'm sure the guy genuinely believes what he writes and roots for his country. It's not a crime or trolling really, there are plenty people in Russia who genuinely believe in the cause and support the leadership.

Considering he has linked stories after stories will ignore the important parts of it or claim it said something it didn't or will be proven wrong repeatedly only to come back around to it again, I don't have your confidence in the man.

You don't accidentally miss important stuff from much of your own stories and repeat debunked stuff as much as he has without it being intentional. The only people I have ever met personally who do that either mentally shut down when confronted with something that refutes them or they get violent over it as defense mechanism. What he does is the mental equivalent of, "If I was too drunk to remember it, it didn't happen".

[Machismo]

At some point, you'd think people would have stopped cheering on the Nazis.

I guess history is repeating itself.

[Gaidax]

Considering he has linked stories after stories will ignore the important parts of it or claim it said something it didn't or will be proven wrong repeatedly only to come back around to it again, I don't have your confidence in the man.

You don't accidentally miss important stuff from much of your own stories and repeat debunked stuff as much as he has without it being intentional. The only people I have ever met personally who do that either mentally shut down when confronted with something that refutes them or they get violent over it as defense mechanism. What he does is the mental equivalent of, "If I was too drunk to remember it, it didn't happen".

I think it's important to consider the other point of view too, it's not really as one-sided as people may think and I can tell you that because I personally was born in Ukraine and moved away from there good 20 years ago leaving all this nonsense behind and bloody thanks god for that one.

It's not all flowers and happiness there, there is a merit to some Russian claims there. Such as ethnic issues between considerable ethnic Russian population and quite a hamfisted and forced "ukrainization" shoved down their throats over many years or some nationalist Ukrainian elements being legit nazis in disguise.

Now granted, Russia is absolutely not some defender of freedoms and happiness in the world. They don't really care about Russian ethnic population of Ukraine and are more concerned with their geopolitical games, but from what I see, as one who was born in said Ukraine - quite a few things in Western perception of the whole place are glossed over and omitted just the same way Russians do.

In short, it's really not as simple as some Western sources present it.

[Fugus]

I think it's important to consider the other point of view too, it's not really as one-sided as people may think and I can tell you that because I personally was born in Ukraine and moved away from there good 20 years ago leaving all this nonsense behind and bloody thanks god for that one.

It's not all flowers and happiness there, there is a merit to some Russian claims there. Such as ethnic issues between considerable ethnic Russian population and quite a hamfisted and forced "ukrainization" shoved down their throats over many years or some nationalist Ukrainian elements being legit nazis in disguise.

Now granted, Russia is absolutely not some defender of freedoms and happiness in the world. They don't really care about Russian ethnic population of Ukraine and are more concerned with their geopolitical games, but from what I see, as one who was born in said Ukraine - quite a few things in Western perception of the whole place are glossed over and omitted just the same way Russians do.

In short, it's really not as simple as some Western sources present it.

I figured it wouldn't be simple and I gladly accept that. I was meaning specifically on him and how he is doing it. Not agreeing with an opinion or anything like that is one thing, but when you outright ignore facts or knowingly repeat proven lies is another. From what I have seen, he crosses that line.

Maybe its just my mindset, but I try and go in with the logic, "If I can't logically defend my views, why do I have them?" and go from there, I try not to rely on anything that is proven false and if something is proven true, I don't try and pretend otherwise. So when I see others do it like he has, it just looks intentional to me.

[beanman12345]

And at this point, seeing just how long and hard Shalcker is pushing this, can't help but think that Russia is about ready to plan something and just has the troll army out in force trying to run online interference.

Maybe I'm wrong but don't think Russia would spend resources here on mmoc sub forum. Which makes the whole effort more sad.

[Gaidax]

Well I'd add some addendum here, yes he tends to BS his way through, but some of the things posted are not untrue.

Ultimately both sides try to push narratives and it's important to be aware that it's not all really that black and white there.

I for one most certainly think that Russia is the aggressor here, but some of their claims do have merit too. It's like that phrase that the best lies are built around a grain of truth.

[Fugus]

Maybe I'm wrong but don't think Russia would spend resources here on mmoc sub forum. Which makes the whole effort more sad.

Well, really depends, we know they troll twitter and facebook. How far of a stretch would it be to troll a forum devoted to the single biggest MMO of all time with lots of traffic?

[Gaidax]

Maybe I'm wrong but don't think Russia would spend resources here on mmoc sub forum. Which makes the whole effort more sad.

Also this of course.

I mean, lets be real. This is just some sad little corner of the internet with few dozen of same old people duking it out over stuff.

It's not the great trophy worth fighting for here.

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Well, really depends, we know they troll twitter and facebook. How far of a stretch would it be to troll a forum devoted to the single biggest MMO of all time with lots of traffic?

Biggest traffic, bruh, I'm sorry but in case you did not notice MMOC is pretty dead and been that way for years. Yes there is some noise here, but it's what same 100 active or so posters if that.

It's a place for boomers like me who did not quite catch on with the times and just post here out of habit.

Ain't gonna be finding them hearts and minds to influence here.

[beanman12345]

Well, really depends, we know they troll twitter and facebook. How far of a stretch would it be to troll a forum devoted to the single biggest MMO of all time with lots of traffic?

Not a huge stretch. I could be wrong. It would be less sad if I was wrong.

[Fugus]

Also this of course.

I mean, lets be real. This is just some sad little corner of the internet with few dozen of same old people duking it out over stuff.

It's not the great trophy worth fighting for here.

I can see it either way, or potentially like a few people I have known in the past who would basically volunteer to do it just to get responses for their own entertainment. Maybe make a game to see how long people can respond to them or how many they can get in trouble.

I had a friend back in the AOL days who enjoyed going to the chat rooms to antagonize people. I still remember him going into a black chatroom pretending he was in the KKK until he got booted only to then immediately go into a KKK chatroom pretending to be black.

Or when I played on a free WoW server had a guy who would spend hours every day to every other day just going into Orgrimmar with a geared warrior and killing the auction house. He would last just long enough to kill them, die, walk the 10 minute or so corpse walk spawn just long enough to do it again and repeat it for hours on end with potions and all to make sure he lasted long enough to pull it off many times. He just got a laugh out of intentionally inconveniencing and annoying others.

Could see this as being one of those situations too.

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Biggest traffic, bruh, I'm sorry but in case you did not notice MMOC is pretty dead and been that way for years. Yes there is some noise here, but it's what same 100 active or so posters if that.

It's a place for boomers like me who did not quite catch on with the times and just post here out of habit.

Ain't gonna be finding them hearts and minds to influence here.

Didn't say biggest traffic, I said biggest MMO, not like it was a decision from someone paying a lot of attention to the specific website, more like an older person who just knows of the game from all the hype around it and directs his subordinates to make sure to target areas like that as well. Kinda like middle management directing attention where it isn't needed due to buzz words they heard about the youth.

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Not a huge stretch. I could be wrong. It would be less sad if I was wrong.

Agreed.

/10char

[Shalcker]

Biden predicts Russian invasion of Ukraine, but says 'minor incursion' may prompt discussion over consequences

I am now starting to wonder, if all these are done as an excuse to destroy the gas pipeline in Ukraine, in order to push north stream 2.

I mean, Russia came up with some retarded requests to NATO, requests that they knew that they couldn't fulfill. e.g., kicking countries off NATO.
They are also ignoring all calls for diplomacy.

Russia does nothing but diplomacy so far.

Knowing that they can't achieve a full control of Ukraine, the only other thing left, is skirmishes around the country. I bet in one of those, a bomb will accidentally blow up the existing pipeline, throwing EU into the freezer, forcing Germany to open the alternative gas route. I hope I am wrong.

Most existing pipelines go well outside conflict zone; to destroy them it would have to be large-scale operation in Western Ukraine.

...why destroy when you can just stop pumping gas too?

Germany haven't requested anything from that direction as they configured it into reverse flow to Poland; Poland haven't renewed their long-term contract with GazProm and now tries to dodge out of market-based pricing rules they themselves went to court to enact.

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Even Zelensky feels things start getting overhyped:

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in a speech Wednesday underlined that the “hype” around the danger of a Russian invasion has grown rather than the actual threat, as he urged the country to remain calm.

“The risks have not just existed for a day, and they have not become bigger. The only thing that has become bigger is the hype around them,” he said.

Kyiv has been battling a pro-Moscow insurgency in two eastern regions bordering Russia since 2014, shortly after the Kremlin annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula. The United States and its allies have for weeks warned that Russia may be planning an invasion of Ukraine. While Russia denies planning to invade the country, satellite pictures showing as many as 100,000 troops gathered on the border have set Western nations on edge.

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken arrived in Kyiv on Wednesday on a diplomatic push to ease tensions with Moscow over Ukraine, warning that Russia could launch a new attack at “very short notice.”

Addressing his compatriots in the speech, Zelenskyy said: “Now it is not our country that is being actively attacked, but your nerves, so that you have a constant feeling of panic.”

Ukrainians should refrain from hoarding and hastily withdrawing cash, the head of state advised.

The aim is rather to weaken Ukraine’s economy so that the Ukrainian “no” vote on certain issues also becomes weaker, Zelensky claimed in the video message and appealed: “To the media: Be methods of mass information and not mass hysteria.”

Russia has been seeking guarantees from NATO that the alliance will not accept Ukraine as a member. Ukraine was also hit by a massive cyberattack that knocked out key government websites, which the country’s digital transformation ministry has said all signs point to Moscow being behind.

[YUPPIE]

gonna say it once more: when I started this thread, it was seen as fearmongering and conspiracy theorist in purely hypothetical terms. The reality is almost here, though, even if the estimates of December a little off.. I'm really excited about what may transpire, and something will happen now because there's no way Putin can just back down now after all this hyping of strength.

[Machismo]

gonna say it once more: when I started this thread, it was seen as fearmongering and conspiracy theorist. The reality is almost here, though, even if the estimates of December a little off.. I'm really excited about what may transpire, and something will happen now because there's no way Putin can just back down now after all this hyping of strength.

Which is especially odd, considering you said you like violent tyrants.

[YUPPIE]

Which is especially odd, considering you said you like violent tyrants.

not sure what you mean there, but it seems like you're implying whatever Putin does now, he will not win or triumph in any capacity.

[Machismo]

not sure what you mean there, but it seems like you're implying whatever Putin does now, he will not win or triumph in any capacity.

Nope, I'm saying you said you like strong tyrants who like to kill people.

For all your screeching, this is exactly what you asked for.

[PC2]

Well, really depends, we know they troll twitter and facebook. How far of a stretch would it be to troll a forum devoted to the single biggest MMO of all time with lots of traffic?

Most people are looking out for the best interest of their country so I don't see why this requires us to think they are trolls nor employed by the government. Their attitude is the global norm, so I don't understand why anyone would be surprised.

[Fugus]

Most people are looking out for the best interest of their country so I don't see why this requires us to think they are trolls nor employed by the government. Their attitude is the global norm, so I don't understand why anyone would be surprised.

Looking out for the best interests of your country doesn't mean giving them a free pass when they do messed up stuff. I want the best interests of the United States, but if it does messed up stuff, I will gladly call it messed up stuff and want something done to address it.

[PC2]

Looking out for the best interests of your country doesn't mean giving them a free pass when they do messed up stuff. I want the best interests of the United States, but if it does messed up stuff, I will gladly call it messed up stuff and want something done to address it.

Okay and would you say your cultural value here is objectively superior? I would, but with all the relativists around we're suppose to say that everyone's opinion is valid.

[Machismo]

Okay and would you say your cultural value here is objectively superior? I would, but with all the relativists around we're suppose to say that everyone's opinion is valid.

The Proud Boys would be so proud of you.