Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Let's see what they say when under oath.

Yeah, that's what it really comes to. They plead not guilty -- the rest was their lawyer most likely telling the public.

This feels like a really stupid idea. Their communications have been...not seized so much as happily turned over. Prosecutors know what they were planning. "We weren't planning to stop the vote" is going to be very hard to defend.

See, we're talking motive here. They're trying to talk their way out of, well, sedition by claiming all their heavily-armed group was break into, @gondrin said it right, do lesser crimes. In other words, it's not that they're betting the farm on reasonable doubt, it's that they have literally nothing left.

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As hinted before, now official, DoJ is looking at the fake elector case.

In addition, the NYTimes reports that the National Archives has turned over a bunch of stuff Trump tried to block.

It's a long article and it's late, so I'll sum up some of the bigger points.

1) Trump had a shitload of meetings pre Jan 6th. He also blocked the visitor's logs and did no known governing during that time. Therefore, the assumption is everything was about the election. Trump's re-election is not covered by Executive Time.

2) We don't know how much of Trump's direct instigation of the riot during his speech was ad-libbed or planned.

3) Team Trump called a bunch of governors. Oddly enough, none of them seem to have listened.

4) A bunch of non-WH employees were known to be at the WH, again, not a re-election headquarters, discussing things like the military seizing voting machines.

Therefore, any details about any of that -- Trump's actual schedule, notes during meetings, phone logs, etc -- were fought to be blocked by Trump. He failed. Most of the pages turned over appear to be "Proposed talking points for Mr. Trump’s press secretary and documents related to allegations of voter fraud (629 pages)". Also known as "the lies Team Trump pushed to help summon and then direct a murderous insurrection".

[Azadina]

I don't even want them to be sent to prison over it (many should for related crimes, obviously), just that this particular charge be used for the "can't ever hold any federal office or position ever again for life" penalty clause. Won't matter to most of them, but it sends a solid message.

I have a solution that fits the parameters you set there: permanently revoke their citizenship.

It will matter to ALL of them, greatly. It sends very solid message, and pretty much means any political careers are over.

[DarkTZeratul]

I have a solution that fits the parameters you set there: permanently revoke their citizenship.

Might as well say your solution is to just kill them all; neither is a legal option.*

*Assuming that all of them are citizens by birth and not naturalized, which I think is a pretty safe assumption, but even then the circumstances for denaturalization are pretty limited.

[Breccia]

Local sources report that in the upcoming Feb 12 Mardi Gras parade, the one called "Vaxxed and Confused", the float for Dr. Avegno, considered to be the queen of the parade, will not feature Dr. Avegno.

"Because he has COVID?"

She, and no.

"Because she considers Mardi Gras parades to be a frat boy relic of a mysogynistic time?"

Uh...if so, she didn't say that.

"What was her reason?"

She didn't want herself, or anyone else, hurt or killed by Trump supporters.

On Monday, Krewe du Vieux reported that--

"The fuck?"

Yeah there's a ton of French down there.

that Avegno, head of the New Orleans Health Department, had stepped down as 2022 parade queen. A letter to the krewe from Avegno indicated her reasons are fear for her personal safety and the safety of krewe members — not from COVID-19 infection, but from other, unspecified threats.

Avegno wrote that, because of the recent “re-imposition of mitigation measures, the level of negativity and hatred" directed at city officials "has significantly increased.”

“I do not want to create a security risk by my participation," she wrote, “and so believe the best place for me this year is behind the scenes helping to continue protecting our community.”

"You said Trump supporters, she said 'unspecified'."

Name one other group that would threaten a health official in the Deep South.

"...touche. Oh shit, there is a ton of French down there."

Avegno will not be replaced, and her float and costume will still be featured in the popular procession that takes place on the evening of Feb. 12, Boegershausen said. “She’s still our queen,” he said, and in true Krewe du Vieux fashion, “we plan to mock her painfully” in her absence.

Boegershausen said that the krewe does not plan to take any extraordinary security measures this year.

Contacted for comment, a City Hall spokesperson said that Avegno’s decision to drop out of the Krewe du Vieux does not imply that other city officials will avoid public appearances during Carnival. “There are no changes of that kind,” the spokesperson said.

Let's be clear, the anti-vax crowd in New Orleans, a city that missed its entire 2021 and most of its 2020 Mardi Gras seasons, seriously I posted a story about wandering gangs of man-eating rats, decided the best way to celebrate the return of Mardi Gras was to threaten the life of the parade queen. Because as we have seen and continue to see, if there is one thing an anti-vaxxer and by proxy a Trump supporter is willing to do more than anyone else, it's bite the hand that heals them so hard they injure themselves or die.

Let me remind y'all: over the entire course of the lethal outbreak, Louisiana has more deaths/capita than New York. No, really. It's close, they're #5 and #6 in that order, but Louisiana -- not hit hard at the start of the outbreak -- looked at what New York was dealing with and said "well shit, we see how bad that is, with people dying in unforseen quantities since it's only early 2020, but damned if we don't want in on that" and that plus misinformation being taken as gospel plus what I can only assume from cost of living and post-Katrina ruins a pretty shitty health care system in most of the state, gave them all they needed to reach and surpass NY's total. Hooray!

In fact, it should be noted that for each blue state in the top ten, there's two red ones worse. Mississippi Arizona New Jersey Alabama Louisiana New York Tennessee Arkansas Michigan West Virginia in that order. And I'd love to see what the total deaths/capita since the first vaccine became available is. Maybe I'll do it myself.

At least in Louisiana's case, their trend is reversing. Oh, it's still bad, but their cases are coming down from (like many states) the highest peak they've ever had, and their deaths...sucked like most of the south in August, but they're not as bad now as then. They're not doing great, but they're not doing horrible, either. And in return for their lead health official's public service to get them there, they threaten her life and chase her out of a pretty big New Orleans honor.

[Azadina]

Might as well say your solution is to just kill them all; neither is a legal option.*

*Assuming that all of them are citizens by birth and not naturalized, which I think is a pretty safe assumption, but even then the circumstances for denaturalization are pretty limited.

Armed assault against the country seems like something that would warrant a state renouncing you as a citizen. And, I'm confused about which part of losing citizenship amounts to immediate death. Enlighten me on that, would you?

[Gorsameth]

Armed assault against the country seems like something that would warrant a state renouncing you as a citizen. And, I'm confused about which part of losing citizenship amounts to immediate death. Enlighten me on that, would you?

Because to remove someone citizenship you would have to convict them of treason against the United States. A sentence that can carry the death penalty.

So its just as easy to shoot them as strip them of citizenship. Both require you to prove Treason in a court of law.

[Endus]

Armed assault against the country seems like something that would warrant a state renouncing you as a citizen. And, I'm confused about which part of losing citizenship amounts to immediate death. Enlighten me on that, would you?

You can't just renounce citizenships like that: it's a human rights violation. If they're no longer a citizen, you can drive them to another country and dump them. That country then can't deport them: they have no national citizenship and thus no country to be deported to. Revoking citizenship is pretty much only for cases where they've naturalized into your country and still retain another legal citizenship.

[DarkTZeratul]

And, I'm confused about which part of losing citizenship amounts to immediate death.

You miss my point. You're calling for a punishment that doesn't exist. There is no legal mechanism for stripping the citizenship from someone who was born to it. Period. Full stop. And even for naturalized citizens, the actions that could result in its revocation are limited and mostly can only occur within a certain amount of time after becoming citizens. So while sure, kicking out of the country forever might solve the problem, it's as realistic a punishment as just straight-up killing them: i.e, not at all, because it's not a valid option for our justice system.

[Azadina]

You can't just renounce citizenships like that: it's a human rights violation. If they're no longer a citizen, you can drive them to another country and dump them. That country then can't deport them: they have no national citizenship and thus no country to be deported to. Revoking citizenship is pretty much only for cases where they've naturalized into your country and still retain another legal citizenship.

Have them sit in a detention center; until such time they can scrape a citizenship from elsewhere. There's 200 and odd nations, surely one, especially one that may be less than friendly to western nations may grant it. Then deport them there. They're not supposed to like having to beg one from nations they may themselves don't like, but then again, treason shouldn't be met with a reward.

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You miss my point. You're calling for a punishment that doesn't exist. There is no legal mechanism for stripping the citizenship from someone who was born to it. Period. Full stop. And even for naturalized citizens, the actions that could result in its revocation are limited and mostly can only occur within a certain amount of time after becoming citizens. So while sure, kicking out of the country forever might solve the problem, it's as realistic a punishment as just straight-up killing them: i.e, not at all, because it's not a valid option for our justice system.

Well, my bad. So make a law that makes it an option in cases such as these. There, solution to the solution.

[Clone]

You can't just renounce citizenships like that: it's a human rights violation. If they're no longer a citizen, you can drive them to another country and dump them. That country then can't deport them: they have no national citizenship and thus no country to be deported to. Revoking citizenship is pretty much only for cases where they've naturalized into your country and still retain another legal citizenship.

What about Guantanamo?

[DarkTZeratul]

What about Guantanamo?

Egregious human rights violations aside, the prisoners there were never American citizens in the first place.

[Ripster42]

You miss my point. You're calling for a punishment that doesn't exist. There is no legal mechanism for stripping the citizenship from someone who was born to it. Period. Full stop. And even for naturalized citizens, the actions that could result in its revocation are limited and mostly can only occur within a certain amount of time after becoming citizens. So while sure, kicking out of the country forever might solve the problem, it's as realistic a punishment as just straight-up killing them: i.e, not at all, because it's not a valid option for our justice system.

Doesn't exist for most crimes... excepting only treason. The constitution doesn't explicitly ban revoking citizenship. By statute though, revoking citizenship is one of the possible punishments for treason. It's not in the actual treason statute, but it's buried in US Code Title 8 section 1481.

[Edge-]

https://www.salon.com/2022/01/26/mic...nvented-rumor/

So I guess the "HILLARY 2024?!?!" topic ran out of fundraising steam fairly quickly, because Republicans are now fundraising off a "rumor" that Michelle Obama is considering a 2024 run.

Now granted, it seems that they're the ones that created this rumor to begin with but hey, who cares when you can put not just a woman, but a BLACK WOMAN as your bogeyman?

And don't worry, Very Smart Man Joe Rogan has already opined on the topic, he's a big fan of President Michelle Obama. Because we all needed to know.

[gondrin]

https://www.salon.com/2022/01/26/mic...nvented-rumor/

So I guess the "HILLARY 2024?!?!" topic ran out of fundraising steam fairly quickly, because Republicans are now fundraising off a "rumor" that Michelle Obama is considering a 2024 run.

Now granted, it seems that they're the ones that created this rumor to begin with but hey, who cares when you can put not just a woman, but a BLACK WOMAN as your bogeyman?

And don't worry, Very Smart Man Joe Rogan has already opined on the topic, he's a big fan of President Michelle Obama. Because we all needed to know.

Well, Joe Rogan just lost a good part of his fanbase. Might as well as close up shop now.

[DarkTZeratul]

I mean, if they want to waste their time on that nonsense, more power to them? Michelle Obama has been very clear for years that she has absolutely no interest.

[Edge-]

I mean, if they want to waste their time on that nonsense, more power to them? Michelle Obama has been very clear for years that she has absolutely no interest.

For the GOP it's not "wasting time", it's a potentially powerful fundraising tool built of a literal fiction they've created. It's just highlighting the dishonesty of the GOP and how willing they are to beg their voters - who are often struggling financially to the point where they have to ask them to skip meals in order to donate.

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Yo, remember how Republicans think that sending out UNSOLICITED VOTER APPLICATIONS is tantamount to voter fraud?

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01...ot-voting-law/

Texas banned election officials from doing this, however did not ban lawmakers from doing so. Dan Crenshaw of Texas, noticing this exception, has apparently sent out UNSOLICITED VOTER APPLICATIONS to voters who are 65 and older. You know, the types that traditionally are more likely to vote Republican.

Surely there's nothing transparently, obviously, and dishonestly wrong with this!

[unfilteredJW]

For the GOP it's not "wasting time", it's a potentially powerful fundraising tool built of a literal fiction they've created. It's just highlighting the dishonesty of the GOP and how willing they are to beg their voters - who are often struggling financially to the point where they have to ask them to skip meals in order to donate.

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Yo, remember how Republicans think that sending out UNSOLICITED VOTER APPLICATIONS is tantamount to voter fraud?

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01...ot-voting-law/

Texas banned election officials from doing this, however did not ban lawmakers from doing so. Dan Crenshaw of Texas, noticing this exception, has apparently sent out UNSOLICITED VOTER APPLICATIONS to voters who are 65 and older. You know, the types that traditionally are more likely to vote Republican.

Surely there's nothing transparently, obviously, and dishonestly wrong with this!

Well then, seems Texas Dems have a loophole now.

[Edge-]

Well then, seems Texas Dems have a loophole now.

I just wonder if Texas managed to figure out their supply chain issues for Crenshaw while telling all the groups like the non-partisan League of Women Voters that they won't be able to provide them with enough official registration forms due to supply chain issues.

Weird if they managed to figure them out for Crenshaw and/or other Republicans in the state and literally only them.

[DarkTZeratul]

Yo, remember how Republicans think that sending out UNSOLICITED VOTER APPLICATIONS is tantamount to voter fraud?

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01...ot-voting-law/

Texas banned election officials from doing this, however did not ban lawmakers from doing so. Dan Crenshaw of Texas, noticing this exception, has apparently sent out UNSOLICITED VOTER APPLICATIONS to voters who are 65 and older. You know, the types that traditionally are more likely to vote Republican.

Surely there's nothing transparently, obviously, and dishonestly wrong with this!

It's only fraud when Democrats do it, obviously.

[Kaleredar]

https://www.salon.com/2022/01/26/mic...nvented-rumor/

So I guess the "HILLARY 2024?!?!" topic ran out of fundraising steam fairly quickly, because Republicans are now fundraising off a "rumor" that Michelle Obama is considering a 2024 run.

Now granted, it seems that they're the ones that created this rumor to begin with but hey, who cares when you can put not just a woman, but a BLACK WOMAN as your bogeyman?

And don't worry, Very Smart Man Joe Rogan has already opined on the topic, he's a big fan of President Michelle Obama. Because we all needed to know.

Are they going to spend all of their political effort and capitol slandering yet another person not actually running for president, like they did with Hunter Biden?